From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 1:34 am Subject: Re: Would you support a 70's TD today ? Really-From: Dennis Nigbur On Thu, 27 Feb 1997 14:03:18 +0000 tadream mailing list wrote: >Really-From: 'Grant Middleton' > > >Your statement seems to imply (at least to me, I could be >wrong) that the 70s style had been exhausted. I personally think that >the 'ultimate' 70's style analogue album has still to be made, >Rubycon notwithstanding. > >BTW, I think their current sound is 'anything but great'. > >Many bands are still doing roughly the same thing as they were doing >in the 70s (and even the 60s !) and are coming out with fresh-sounding >stuff. Aerosmith are one example which springs to mind. Okay, I'm afraid I misunderstood your point there. If they (or any other new band) decided to recover their 70s style to make a fresh effort to achieve what you might call the 'ultimate album', that's fine. I'd certainly appreciate such an effort aswell. I somehow understood from your previous mail that you were aiming at some 70s TD revival stuff. Sorry, just a misunderstanding. As you put it now, I entirely agree. >There is >still a vast area of unexplored music within the boundaries set by TD >et al. I want to hear some of the results of that exploration ! > Again, I completely agree. Exploring the spirit of the seventies using the experience and technology of the nineties sounds very interesting indeed. Dennis From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Feb 27, 1997 9:03 pm Subject: Baumann solo stuff Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' I was looing in the book _Rock Record_, an exhaustive discography of just about everyone, and noticed next to the entry for Peter Baumann, there was an entry for simply 'Baumann' with an album entitled 'Strangers in the Night,' released on Arista in the UK in 1984. Below that, there was an entry for a 'Baumann-Koek' album called 'Baumann-Koek' released on Jaguar in Germany. I know SitN is listed on the TD solo discography, but why would it be listed separately? And what's this 'Baumann-Koek'? Any relation? Scott Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1309 Re: Baumann solo stuff Vic Rek Fri 2/28/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Feb 27, 1997 1:11 pm Subject: TD, technology then and now. Really-From: kman@m... One of the attractive facets of TD is their implementation of cutting edge technology. Sometimes we may despair over the change in styles and textures, but Edgar and others are staying true to their philosophy of continual exploration. It's hard to compare the use of analog sounds and '70s styles from our perspective of today, where it's a RETRO approach, with when it was new and unexplored. Then textures and tones where being discovered and implemented in the context of novelty and freshness. To go back would be an admission that there is a barrier for new explorations. I'd rather see a judicious mixture of sounds and styles with a forward looking philosophy than just admitting that there is less interest in continuing the ongoing adventure. There have been a number of points in TD.s history where great use was made from mixing old and new technologies. The introduction of the PPG wave in combination with analog machines is one example, with the Poland concert a representative result. The prevelance of sampling machines in the mid eighties along with Yamaha DX sounds and digital synths added new textures to the Haslinger years, especially in Underwater Sunlight. Many of the breathy, tinkling bell derived sounds coming from Korg, Roland, Yamaha machines were not possible just with analog technology. We would have been deprived of a lot of good sounds and moving textures if just a '70s set up was applied. Without a machine like the Korg Wavestation many of the rhythmic melodic looped textures of the '90s would never have been possible. In summation I'll conclude by saying that a new TD production always carries with it the possibility of fresh sounds and textures, hopefully utilized within the context of moving musical peices. They indeed don't always come through, and at timesmerely duplicate what was already done, but at least the drive and potential for further exploration is present more often than not. Even the focus on more traditional instrumentation like guitar, piano, sax, is indicative of the will to evolve and change. However in all candor I think TD are at their best and most innovative when they work more within the electronic domain, using acoustic instruments more for contrast or a soloing spotlight. Sorry, got to cut it short now. I'd like to discuss similarities and differences in compositional style over the years some time. Bye for now, Arnold K. style From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Feb 27, 1997 8:15 pm Subject: Re: Would you support a 70's TD today ? -Reply Really-From: florin epure >But it won't be made by Tangerine Dream. TD is a band that has >always >been driven by new technology, new sounds, and the mindset and >tastes of >its various members as they change over time. I think another aspect when comparing the new Jerome era with old 70's TD era (In my opinion) must be the composition of the music. Not only instruments count, but also the composition. You can write very good tracks - and even with analog 70's instruments they will sound excellent (see TD 70's era). They would sound as good to me with the new sounds/technology. You can write weaker tracks (or even bad tracks) (enough of them on Tyranny of beauty and Dream Mixes) - even with the best technology they sound strange (in my opinion again!) And as a conclusion and answer to the question:yes - I would really like to hear '70's like' TD today.(yes, I know it won't happen) - all I hope is that Jerome will stop playing following instruments: -the drums -the drums and of course -the drums and try also something else. Florin. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 4:27 am Subject: Web Pages Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) Hi all, Please excuse the rather blatent plug but... Elephant, it gives me considerable pleasure to tell you that our Web Pages are now up and running at the following address : http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dhughes/tbass.html Our music has been favourably compared to late-eighties Tangerine Dream, synth pop pioneers Ultravox and Mark Shreeve in his synth-rock days i.e. before Redshift'. There's lots of information about the activities of the band including details of our forthcoming appearance at the EMMA 4 festival on May 31st. (Yes, that's one week after Kraftwerk and one week before Jarre hits Wembley : suddenly, we're spoiled for choice...' There are a couple of samples from our debut album, The Infection of Time, and some piccies from the archives. The pages are still under development and, although we haven't found any warts recently, there may be one or two foobars lurking. If you find one, please let us know. Cheers David Hughes (dhughes@g...) Tranquility Bass From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: COMPILATIONS: Are They for Fans or the TD-Curious? Really-From: Steven Feldman Folks, I'm curious what people think about this: who do you think benefits most from compilation albums--the company who issues them, the band's fans, or persons mostly unfamiliar with the band who want to find out more about it with the least risk (i.e. expense . . . or winding up with a collection that has mostly stuff they learn that they don't like)? Personally, I think the answer is this: the company makes out the best because, to them, value judgments, relative merit, and opinions are irrelevant; the fans don't make out much at all, because they already own everything on the comp. and--due to the fact that comps. are culled only from one label/phase of the band's career--they are unrepresentative; and the idly curious (*potential* fan) tends to make out only insofar as he is getting something instead of nothing: a bad compilation is better than no compilation at all because at least two or three (as with Silva's DREAM MUSIC) sources on one album beats 'taking a chance' by buying one album from a band who has 50+ from which to choose. >Subject: Plus ca change...(HUGE POST-MISS IT AT YOUR PERIL!) >Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 22:14:09 -0500 >From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) >Really-From: goozer@a... (Hermes Guzman) > >[. . .] Virgin owns the publishing rights to the '74-'83 (Virgin >Years) material; Castle owns the rights to the '70-'73 (Pink Years) and >'84-'87 (Blue Years) material; Windham Hill now owns the rights to the >'88-'90 (Melrose Years) material; and Miramar owns the rights to the >'92-'95 (Seattle Years) material. [. . .] Understood. >[. . .] The various soundtracks are owned by the >respective studios and licensed out to whatever label cares to negotiate >for them. [. . .] What, pray tell, makes the motion picture industry appear to be more beneficent than the music industry in this context? If the movie folk can do it, what's holding the music folks back? I'm not sure if I'd advance that either industry was 'greedier' than the other. >[. . .] Each of the above labels makes a tidy sum off sales of their >respective albums, and has no need to license any portion out to others. 'No need,' or 'No desire'? What need do the movie studios have of licensing? To lure in more people by virtue of presenting a collection of music with more diverse sources, perhaps? By the same token, wouldn't a non-movie-tie-in compilation representative of a more diverse pool of source materials lure in more buyers? >They have no desire to help their _competitors_ make money, thank you very >much! [. . .] The nature of the world, at work. Still, what makes the movie industry appear to be so saintly in comparison? >[. . .] >While individual tracks can and do end up on off label, multi-artist >collections, you won't find Private issuing a collection with any Castle >material, or Miramar doing the 'Virgin/Seattle Years', etc. [. . .] Yeah, and why not? Is it because they don't like to pay the legal fees to iron out the details, and then have to mail off small checks to many companies each month, quarter, or whatever? Remember when there were lots of ads on TV for collections from Ronco, K-Tel, and suchlike? People joked about them, but many of these records were good collections and sold like gangbusters, and NONE OF THE MUSIC WAS OWNED BY THE COMPANY WHICH RELEASED THE COMPILATIONS: all of it was leased. >[. . .] The sdtk. >exceptions on 'Tangents' notwithstanding, as they were licensed from the >studios. Again, what makes the movie companies more helpful? It's a movie company that is preventing THE KEEP from being issued as an album, and a movie company that squelched a STREETHAWK soundtrack, wasn't it? >[. . .] >So unless Edgar starts buying back the rights, we won't be seeing >'Tatort' beside 'Ultima Thule' or 'Dolphin Dance' on the same CD... unless >it's a boot (which, by the way, is one reason they exist!) [. . .] As it is, 'Ultima Thule' is only on a European compilation CD, and for *I* know, this compilation draws from materials from more than one label. >[. . .] As some of you >may recall, thats why the forever rumored compilation video has never >surfaced, and why a video of the '90 Europe tour was cancelled: too many >companies wanted too much for the publishing rights to the material. That's why leasing exists. *Let* 'em keep the rights; lease 'em. >Most fans don't bother with compilations. This list, to which it can be >safely assumed that we are all die-hard fans, has slighly less than 400 >members. Most of us lurk, and out of the 50 or so 'usual suspects' who >regularly post, it seems that a sizeable minority _don't_ purchase >everything that's out there. [. . .] Hey, I don't purchase everything, either: almost everything, but I don't buy compilations unless there's something new on them, like Edgar's SOLO 74-79 and BEYOND THE STORM; Franke's NEW MUSIC FOR FILMS, VOL 1; the '70-'80 box set, THE PRIVATE MUSIC OF TANGERINE DREAM, TANGENTS, BOOK OF DREAMS, and DREAM ROOTS. >[. . .] So where do you even get the faintest clue >that your 'UberCollection' would outsell _any_ TD release even 1.5/1? >[. . .] o There would be 3 CDs instead of 5 (cheaper). o A sample(r) from more different albums than any other sampler. o Good faith on the part of the label (using competitors' materials) generates positive buyer response. o This would be about the only compilation with no new material that non-completist die-hards (an oxymoron?) might actively seek out because the collection is genuinely good, not just an excuse for the record company to sell another record: the 'Ultima Thule' and Ones 45s would be on there. >[. . .] just because you've met a few other people who can all _talk_ >as loud in this small little room, with the same desire to own >everything out there that you have, doesn't mean that there are teeming >masses to do the same! I am all too aware of this fact, and that's exactly why I think the idly curious record buyer--with little prior knowledge of TD--would be better served by a package with a broader range which would reflect the band's output as a whole, not just the output of their stint with a particular publisher. + + + + + + + >Subject: Re: A Call to Arms >Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:16:06 -0800 >From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) >Really-From: Mark Filipak > >This is why I posted my opinion that people should use good judgement -- >to think before they post. The simple question that should be asked: >'Why am I posting this?' 'What do I expect to happen as a result of >posting this?' [. . .] I meant to create two flame wars on subjects that I feel strongly about, and I succeeded. I'm glad. Now, at least, I get to read and contribute to stuff on this list I care about (and no, I don't care exclusively about starting flame wars). I hoped that my stating of strong views would evoke a strong response, and it has. This, to my mind, is a good thing. >[. . .] But when >someone posts a rant deriding Edgar and his current output of music, >what is the point? To isolate possible causes and to integrate the resultant realizations that are yielded from such analysis. >[. . .] I have continued to correspond with several people who >have left this list. One of them is a leading e-music >musician/producer/label owner. If I told you who it is your hair would >stand on end. [. . .] And perhaps not. Fame doesn't impress me. Unless it's a musician for which I personally have respect or of which I buy recordings, I really wouldn't care *who* it is: if it was, for example, Thomas Dolby, Klaus Schulze, Vangelis, or Tomita, I wouldn't be too upset from the loss. Actually, even it was EDGAR, I wouldn't be too upset. I mean, really, think about it: what would Edgar's presence really result in? We would all kiss his ass and tone down our comments, and in turn, this list would become an information extension of the various 'official' TD websites. Brian Eno once sent a message to the Eno list saying, in effect, 'Thanks but no thanks. I have no wish to split hairs with fans about what songs they like, don't like, and why.' >[. . .] He thinks this list 'extremely anal' to use his very >words. Another person with whom I correspond is a performer and >promoter. He thinks this list is a 'bitch club'. Believe me, these are >the very type of people we need on the TaDream List and all this >incessent complaining and advice to Edgar is driving them away. I >belong to other music lists in related genres. [. . .] Most artists/creators/performers hate critics. Ever hear the expression, 'Those who can't do, teach; those who can't teach become critics'? >[. . .] I find none of this petty sniping on them. Geesh. What is it, a Classical list, or . . . a list with only one tenth the amount of subscribers that the TD list has? >[...] >I draw the line at accusations that Edgar did 'Tangents' because he is >greedy, as has been asserted. [. . .] I'm sorry if I led anyone to believe that I believe Edgar is greedy in of himself: I merely feel that he is contributing to unfortunate business practices on the part of his employers. + + + + + + + >Subject: Re: tadream-digest V15 #845 >Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 08:50:25 -0600 (CST) >From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) >Really-From: Michael A Jean > >STEVE: SUre your plan sounds nice, but why write a letter to Mirimar >about releases from other record companies? TANGENTS was on Virgin, and >DRC was on SEQUEL. Do you really expect record companies to be trading >material. I don't *expect* it, no. That's why I'm suggesting it to the one TD label that has yet to release a compilation of any sort (unless you consider TRUE NORTH or THE DREAM MIXES to be TD compilations). I *do*, however, think it would be nice (and *not* unprecedented). If such maligned outfits as Ronco, Adam VIII, and K-Tel can do, what is preventing the Big Boys from doing the same? >ZONING: Chris Franke's music was never EDITED OUT of Zoning! The 1980s >version of a film called Zoning DID contain CF music, but the S/T was >never released (it contained alot of Vermilion Sands kind of stuff). >[. . .] You mean, it's like THE PARK IS MINE, and we'll never hear it? :( >[. . .] The >latest ZONING movie is completely unrelated to the first one. They just >both happen to have TD music. I got to thinking about this, and I recalled that TD reputedly did a soundtrack in the late 1980's called ZONE TROOPERS. I have a feeling that all this confusion is due to the fact that ZONE TROOPERS is being mistakenly-remembered as ZONING.' Steven Feldman -- 33 Brook Street, Apt. 3, Brookline, MA 02146; INTERNET: BITNET: DREAMS WORD: Electronic Dreams, POB 42385, Portland, OR 97242. The Nightcrawlers, c/o Peter D. Gulch -- 1493 Greenwood Avenue, Camden, NJ 08103-2929. PERSONAL FAVES: Tangerine Dream, Nightcrawlers, Ozrics, Jonn Serrie, Robert Carty. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ OUT TO PROVE THAT 'THE KEEP' SOUNDTRACK WAS RELEASED TEMPORARILY IN 1984. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1321 Re: COMPILATIONS: Are They for Fans or the TD-Cur TheSmitter@a... Fri 2/28/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Feb 27, 1997 9:46 pm Subject: Re: Tangerine Dream filmography Really-From: 'Harri Ikonen' > Really-From: PNaunton@a... > > Great research. I hope you don't mind if I copy it to my TD > (personal) discography file. There is some information here which I have > never come across before. Thanks again. Thanks for the compliment! No, I don't mind. After all, I used Mark Filipak's list as a reference so I guess I'm guilty of copying too :) -- Harri Ikonen hikonen@m... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 12:57 am Subject: Re: What is this list about? Really-From: Mark Filipak tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: Robert Forman <73652.1423@C...> > > >> But Goozer's post was followed just 7 hours later by Robert Forman's > post to that thread in which he lauded Robert Fripp and derided Edgar. > Well, I guess I just snapped.<< > > Point 1: Some of us are not on this list interactively. I, for one, get > the list in digest mode. Some of my posts may appear to be 'dated' by > the time I get the opportunity to e-mail my remarks. I'm sorry if this > is the case, but unless I only lurk on this list, it is my only option. In my fevered condition I didn't think of that. Sorry Bob. Guess this makes you a casualty of war -- a war you didn't really take part in. I appologize for flaming you. Like I said, I just snapped. Thanks for being a gentleman and not snapping back. > Point 2: Perhaps you were sensitive to the issue, and my posting using > the 'sickening TANGENT-izing' thread made my reason for posting the > message I sent unclear. Yes, I was lauding Robert Fripp. No I was not > deriding Edgar. As a Tangerine Dream fan, one who posses a number of > bootlegs and fan tapes, I WISH Edgar would go through the TD archives > and release some of the material which has been performed live but has > never been officially released. Fripp is doing that with KC, and in a > way that I, as a fan, would love to see TD take on. As do we all. I recently got 'Live! Improvised!' and the realization hit me like a load of bricks. Not only is the performance excellent, and the sound on this bootleg very good, but it, along with 'Coefficient of Aural Expansion', are the only live samples I have of TD's improv days that have been committed to CD -- too bad they had to be boots. I for one see nothing wrong with saying that we would all like to see Edgar go to the vaults and issue everything. I look forward in eager anticipation to getting my signed copy of Klaus Schulze's 'Jubilee Edition' 25CD box this summer. To draw an analogy between your comment about Robert Fripp and KS -- yes, it would be very nice if Edgar would issue a huge box of unreleased material. I would sell all my FAX collection to get the money together to buy it. In retrospect, your comments about R.Fripp were not flamebait and I'm sincerely sorry I jumpped on you. > I wish/hope that Froese will do the same. But I have no expectations in > that regard. Froese will do what he wants when he wants, and I have no > information as to his desire to take on such a project, what the legal > roadblocks might be, etc. AS A FAN, with knowledge of the virtual > mountain of music (some of it I know to be great) out there, I wish for > official release. It is my opinion that the music was meant to be > heard, and it's a shame that only those of us with access to the > internet/bootlegs/fan tapes are able to hear it. I'm not so sure that > Edgar does not agree, and that the TDI label the band has created will > be used for just such a project. I HOPE so. > > Finally: It's not my desire to tell Edgar or the band what it is they > 'should' do. I'm on this list and sometimes I communicate my TD > opinions and wishes to other fans. They are opinions and wishes, not > demands. Sorry if you see things otherwise. I don't see things otherwise. I just didn't think it was fair to flame Edgar and slander him the way he was being flamed and slandered (not by you, though, by others). At heart, we are all in love with TD. It seems at times to be unrequited love and it's understandible if it sometimes leads to resentment. In my fevered dreams I've even thought of declaring a personal list-strike, posting only a daily strike declaration, until Edgar and/or Jerome shows up on this list, if for even just an hour a week, but in more sober moments I realize that the bad publicity a list-strike might engender would only hurt TD and us and that it probably wouldn't be successful anyways. Believe me, I share everyone's frustrations, but it's simply not right to lash out at Edgar as some have done. Hopefully, this dark period has now run it's course and we've all learned a thing or two. I hope we can just ignore future rants about Edgar without providing either support or condemnation so that the ranter just gets tired and quits it. All should remember that this is a public forum and should believe me when I say that I _know_ from _firsthand_ _experience_ that people _very_ _close_ to TD and to former band members lurk this list _regularly_. 'Nuf said -- on with the show. > >>Bob<< To make amends for my unfair treatment of you, I'd like to send you a Korg sampler CD with an E.Froese tune on it that is found nowhere else to my knowledge. The songtitle is 'Michiko'. (Anyone know if this is found on any other CD, LP, EP, or single -- or even bootleg?) Email your address privately and I'll send it out to you. Sweet Dreams -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 2:42 am Subject: Re: Baumann solo stuff Really-From: Vic Rek At 04:03 PM 2/27/97 -0500, you wrote: >Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' >that, there was an entry for a 'Baumann-Koek' album called >'Baumann-Koek' released on Jaguar in Germany. I know SitN is listed on >the TD solo discography, but why would it be listed separately? And >what's this 'Baumann-Koek'? Any relation? This is a private pressing released after Romance '76 in 1978. The music is very good but unfortunately there is very little information on this release. I heard somebody say that Baumann denies playing on this? Vic From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 2:42 am Subject: Conrad Schnitzler Rarities Really-From: Vic Rek Anyone looking for Conrad Schnitzler rarities? There is an auction in Goldmine Magazine #433 that closes March 28, 1997. His rarest item is for bid also. The items are: Auf dem Schwarzen Kanal 12' Oldie Markt LP Das Ist Schonheit 2LPs Eruption Box Set + cassette (the rarest) probably will go for $1,500 or so. You can fax you bids to Guenter Heintz in the US at 505-437-1385. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 2:42 am Subject: Ultima Thule on a Compilation? Really-From: Vic Rek > > As it is, 'Ultima Thule' is only on a European compilation CD, and >for *I* know, this compilation draws from materials from more than one >label. > Which compilation CD is this on? Vic From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 2:43 am Subject: Bionaut in NYC & Philly Really-From: Bionaut@a... COME VACCUM THE PROPHET Upcoming live dates for Bionaut (Christopher Green & Paul Eggleston) from Massachusetts... 'Bionaut offers '...mindwarping analog-fueled interstellar journeys like you've never heard before.' Believe me, this is no hype. The obvious skill at which Bionaut creates their sound is comparable to the Orb. If anyone says ambient is dull and uninteresting, direct them towards Bionaut.' - Tribal Gathering, Jan 1997. Sunday, MARCH 2 at Amoeba - Den of Thieves, 145 E Houston St (between Aves 1 & 2), NYC. Voicemail/Info 212-726-1546 MARCH 29 at Star's End Gathering X - Press release info follows... STAR'S END GATHERING X TO FEATURE BIONAUT (Philadelphia, PA) Stars End Gathering X on Saturday, March 29, 1997, will feature live electronic space music by Bionaut. Sponsored by the 20-year-old WXPN radio program, Star's End, the concert will be held from 8:00pm-11pm in Houston Hall, at 3417 Spruce Street in West Philadelphia. Tickets at the door are $10; WXPN members and students free. For concert information, call 1-800-565-WXPN or 1 (215) 573-3340. Concert Preview: The Saturday, March 22nd broadcast of Star's End will feature Bionaut's music in addition to a live telephone interview with Bionaut (Chris Green and Paul Eggleston) in the first hour of the show. Star's End can be heard every Saturday night/Sunday morning from 1am-6am on: 88.5fm WXPN Philadelphia; 88.1fm WXPH Harrisburg; 90.5fm Worton/Baltimore, MD; and 104.9fm Allentown. Star's End Gatherings are live concerts featuring musicians from the ambient, electronic, and space music worlds. For more info: http://www.starsend.org Below are directions to Houston Hall Auditorium: -I-95 N or S -76 W (exit 11) -South Street (exit 40) -left at traffic signal -pass three traffic signals (34th Street) -Houston Hall is 2nd building on right -upstairs to 2nd floor Best parking: Chestnut and Walnut Streets between 33rd and 36th Streets Crashanywhere From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 3:40 am Subject: Re: What is this list about? Really-From: Rich Maggio Fellow dreamers and dreamettes: I'd like to add my 2 cents to this discussion about 'what this list is about' and what types of discussions should be 'permitted' on this list. I hate to add to this, but I feel I need to say something. For those of you (I include myself) who are tired of this thread, I apologize. It grows wearying by the moment! I'll start off with what this list is for me. For me, this list is a means to engage in 'conversation' with other fans of a relatively obscure group - TD. It is also a means of gathering information about upcoming releases and opinions on previous ones. For these purposes, this list has served me quite well. Folks have been quite helpful to me and I would like to think that I have given a bit back and helped others out. Now, about what is to be deemed as 'permittable' discussion: As with any group of people, there are those that are incessant complainers and need to find fault in just about anything. These people have every right to voice their opinions and complaints, as do any of us. Some of us may find it annoying or abrasive, and that's fine as well. That's why they have delete keys on keyboards. In 'real life', you either avoid these people or tune them out. The same can be done here. This is what I do. The way I look at it is that if someone is an ass, they may not be aware of it, but others around them sure are. These people are seen by others as what they are. There is no need to engage them - this only encourages them. They will always be right no matter what you say, so save your time and typing. Ignore them. Let them dig their hole. I find it to be the most pain free way to deal with them. Maybe one day, they will figure out that they are an ass and do something about it. Before anyone flames me here, I'm not implying that anyone in particular on this list is an ass. I'm generalizing. There are some here, though I don't have anyone particular in mind as I write this. Someone mentioned that the people on this list are viewed as being anal. I agree. Anal is not always a bad thing. Many of us are successful in life because of the fact that we are as such. Some are more anal than others. Fine. Why don't we show some tolerance and let it be. If you can't tolerate it, then leave. It's quite simple. No one if forcing anyone to participate on this list. If you find it filled with a bunch of intolerably anal people, do as you would in real life - don't associate with them. I a very tolerant person, but one thing I can't tolerate is intolerance! I feel that some of this is creeping up in this list based on this thread. And it bothers me. So, for me, I think the list has been going quite fine, despite this current thread. Not perfect, but nothing in life is. When the day comes that I find it insufferable (and I doubt that will be the case), I will unsubscribe. Simple. Flame me if you will, but I couldn't just sit back and let this one ride by. Just my 2 cents, Rich Maggio From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 3:07 am Subject: clarification Really-From: goozer@a... (Hermes Guzman) Greetings all. It seems that a small amount of confusion has been caused by my recent post as to what the intent of my jeremiad was. It was most decidedly _NOT_ to suggest, imply, or recommend that criticism be censured (or even censored), nor was it a call for moderation of the list. As I stated in my post; we are all individuals, and as such, we experience things in a manner unique to us. We also all have a subjective bias as regards our experiences; again from a individually unique perspective. I do not, nor can I ever, expect any of you to agree with my feelings or opinions 100% lock step, two, three, four. Just as I (obviously) do not agree with yours full-time. The way in which we define our individuality is in the interaction and interchage with others of our respective points-of-view, thereby (hopefully) allowing us to both learn and grow. What I was commenting on, simply, was that there is a difference between honest criticism and slander. One is constructive. The other is destructive. Which one is which should be obvious. Hope this helps. goozer Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 35816 Re: clarification tei waz teiwazbarana2002 Fri 8/30/2002 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 5:55 am Subject: Re: Checkpoint Charley Really-From: PNaunton@a... In a message dated 97-02-26 20:20:21 EST, you write: << P.S. I used to like Kraan. Are they or their music still around? > I don't know their music but I have come across some of their releases on CD. What do they sound like? Vic >> One word <>. Reminiscent of Can, Amon Duul II, although, if my memory serves, more intense. Phil Naunton From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 5:56 am Subject: Re: Klaus Schulze IS Sequenced! Really-From: PNaunton@a... In a message dated 97-02-27 08:51:16 EST, Vic writes: << Well I just got in my German copy of Klaus Schulze - Are You Sequenced? >> Where did you get it, Vic? I've been hunting for this since the end of last year. Phil Naunton From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 5:56 am Subject: Re: Checkpoint Charley Really-From: PNaunton@a... In a message dated 97-02-27 03:59:54 EST, you write: << You can get most of the CDs in Germnay. The most famous are 'Flyday', 'Live (DoCD)', 'Wiederhoern', 'Let it out' and many more. If interested, write to rainer@i... for more infos. Mit den besten Gruessen vom Bodensee ! Rainer Rutka >> 'Wiederhoern' That's the one! I had that on tape until I erased it accidently. That was a big loss. It probably doesn't have the same magic now, but I've always wanted to replace it. Couldn't remember the name of the album, though. Thanks for the information. Phil Naunton From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 5:56 am Subject: Re: What is this list about? (was Re: New Day) Really-From: PNaunton@a... In a message dated 97-02-27 01:24:07 EST, you write: << I welcomed Goozer's long posting 'Plus ca change...(HUGE POST-MISS IT AT YOUR PERIL!)' which I was hoping would finally end the 'Sickening TANGENT-izing' thread. But Goozer's post was followed just 7 hours later by Robert Forman's post to that thread in which he lauded Robert Fripp and derided Edgar. Well, I guess I just snapped. >> I snapped a while back, too. And I blew up on the list, sorry to say. It felt good. It feels better now. I vented my spleen, and that's it. Now I can talk about more important things. Phil Naunton From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 5:56 am Subject: Re: Would you support a 70's TD today ? Really-From: PNaunton@a... In a message dated 97-02-27 06:00:56 EST, Grant writes: << What I was wondering, though, was; If a band appeared tomorrow who produced a '70s sound like Baumann era TD or Timewind era Klaus Schulze, would there be a big market for it ? Would it be as popular as the first time round, would it sink without trace, or would it, in fact, be /more/ popular ? >> In my opinion, you are confusing popularity with quality; two things which are rarely synonymous. I really don't believe that 'Encore' or any of that original stuff was all that popular whan it originally came out. I still have very strong memories of mentioning Tangerine Dream to my various friends back then, and the responding blank stares; as if to say, 'That Phil! Another one of those wierd, off the wall european rock groups. Get a life, Phil, will ya?' But, HA. I've got the last laugh. Those guys are all married with too many children, and living way out in the middle of nowhere in their $250,000 houses, and their Porsches and BMWs and Mercedes Benzes. And me? I'm divorced, and pennyless, living in the heart of a major metropolitan area with gunfire keeping me awake at night. But I can still play those old TD albums and think of the good old days. What can they remember? Huh? The previous - all in jest. Talk to you all later. Phil Naunton From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 5:55 am Subject: Re: A Call to Arms Really-From: PNaunton@a... In a message dated 97-02-26 23:40:30 EST, you write: << I have continued to correspond with several people who have left this list. One of them is a leading e-music musician/producer/label owner. If I told you who it is your hair would stand on end. He thinks this list 'extremely anal' to use his very words. Another person with whom I correspond is a performer and promoter. He thinks this list is a 'bitch club'. Believe me, these are the very type of people we need on the TaDream List and all this incessent complaining and advice to Edgar is driving them away. I belong to other music lists in related genres. I find none of this petty sniping on them. >> This is totally ridiculous. This list is not any different than it was two years ago. It is not suffering, I repeat 'NOT SUFFERING'. The people who contribute to this list, I repeat 'CONTRIBUTE to this list' make it what it is. Many people have left this list, and for reasons _I_ consider ANAL. 'Too much tracks and timings and etc. talked about.' 'The whole weekly/album discussion platform.' 'Etc. Etc. Etc.' These people are gone, and I miss them, to be frank, I miss them alot, but this list is not any the worse off for not having them. Others have taken their places, and those new members have more fresh blood to contribute. Its wonderful! The easiest thing in the world is to say, 'Yeah, I quit TADREAM. What a bunch of assholes those guys are.' SOUR GRAPES!!! If you want it different, make it what you want. You have the power. Resignation never did crap to change the world. I don't care what the foundations of this list are like, people will STILL unsubscribe because they don't like it. It might even be Mother Theresa who unsubscribes, and some people might be really disappointed to see her go. This list and its spirit will probably go on until Edgar is 97 and spending most of his time in a hospital in Calcutta. By then I'll be picking up my E-Mail from a terminal just inside the Gates Of Hell because I'll be long dead. For as many people who dump on this list, there are ten who indicate that it is the best list around. I agree. I'm biased, too. The other ones I've looked in on, some for many months, are shallow and scattered, stupid and sad. This list is always active, always thoughtful, always interesting, and this thread is no different. If this theme keeps up much longer, I QUIT!!!! Just kidding ;-) Phil Naunton From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 6:50 am Subject: Re: COMPILATIONS: Are They for Fans or the TD-Curious? Really-From: TheSmitter@a... Steven, I've always felt that the company makes out on compilations. It seems like they should cost next to nothing to produce (unless they've been re-recorded or altered in any way like Tangents, etc). The fans certainly don't make out. Often times they're not a true representation of the band - it's only the 'hits', not the hidden gems. I rarely play compilations because most don't flow well. Too many different moods and styles covering too great a span of time. I think a lot of would-be fans will never seek out more music by a particular band because the compilation they just bought is such a jumbled mess. And those compilations with one or more unreleased cuts are the worst! They've suckered me in more times than I care to admit. How many times can you sell the same item to the same person but in a new package? Larry << Folks, I'm curious what people think about this: who do you think benefits most from compilation albums--the company who issues them, the band's fans, or persons mostly unfamiliar with the band who want to find out more about it with the least risk (i.e. expense . . . or winding up with a collection that has mostly stuff they learn that they don't like)? >> From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 7:53 am Subject: TD and JMJ in Holland Really-From: Jeroen Geerts ** High Priority ** Does anyone know how to obtain tickets for the concerts of TD and JMJ in Holland Jeroen J Geerts jjg.geerts@w... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 4:26 pm Subject: Re: tadream-digest V15 #848 Really-From: ashok prema >> >> >> > > >------------------------------ > >From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) >Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 13:54:36 -0600 >Subject: Re: Would you support a 70's TD today ? > >Really-From: feldon@n... > >At 11:00 AM 2/27/97 +0000, you wrote: >>Really-From: 'Grant Middleton' >> >>What I was wondering, though, was; If a band appeared tomorrow >>who produced a '70s sound like Baumann era TD or Timewind era >>Klaus Schulze, would there be a big market for it ? Would it be >>as popular as the first time round, would it sink without trace, >>or would it, in fact, be /more/ popular ? >> >>I would personally be delighted by such a band. What about the >>other list members ? > >I would personally buy 20 copies of each CD. > >Morgan >feldon@n... > >P.S. Maybe I'm blurring your post, but I think that Baumann and Smoelling >eras are one category and all this post 1983 stuff is another category... > Morgan, Have you then ordered 20 copies of Mark Shreves'Red Shift' album then? As a couple have said on previous Digests - this is Rubycon pt 2 if ever there was one - PROGTRON should be able to supply you 20 copies I'm sure! also on the same subject:: Really-From: 'Marcel Engels' ? Would it be> as popular as the first time round, would it sink without trace, > or would it, in fact, be /more/ popular ? Absolutely. Look at AirSculpture, Radio Massacre International and Mark Shreeve. They all gone back analogue and have great success with it! Great music can also be conceived with digital equipment though. Marcel Well - how do you define success?? None of the above have made a dent in in the music world - whereas TD are world renowned - plus in terms of sales - the above are miniscule - a couple of thousand perhaps instead of tens of thousands like TD! Succesful?? certainly not commercially ! Ash Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1324 Re: tadream-digest V15 #848 Craig R. J. Cordrey Fri 2/28/1997 4 KB 1328 Re: tadream-digest V15 #848 Mark Filipak Fri 2/28/1997 3 KB 1333 Re: tadream-digest V15 #848 Marcel Engels Fri 2/28/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 4:42 pm Subject: Re: tadream-digest V15 #848 Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > Really-From: ashok prema > >> Absolutely. Look at AirSculpture, Radio Massacre International and Mark >> Shreeve. They all gone back analogue and have great success with it! >> Great music can also be conceived with digital equipment though. >> >> Marcel > > Well - how do you define success?? None of the above have made a dent in > in the music world - whereas TD are world renowned - plus in terms of > sales - the above are miniscule - a couple of thousand perhaps instead of > tens of thousands like TD! Succesful?? certainly not commercially ! > > Ash Are TD world renowned? They may have been twenty years ago, when they were constantly in the top twenty album charts in the UK. Into the eighties, when I first started listening to them and people would say 'Oh, yeah, I've heard _of_ them, but not anything _by_ them.' In the late eighties there was an awful lot of 'God, are they still on the go?' and 'I haven't heard of them for ages.' Nowadays I usually get a blank look. And of course, as you say yourself, it depends how you define success. Tens of thousands is, of course, a miniscule amount in relation to the real big boys (Bat out of Hell, Saturday Night Fever, etc.). Whilst it is easy to say that TD are probably the biggest name in e-music (although now having said that some are sure to disagree) with people like JMJ, Kraftwerk and Schulze close behind, we always have to remember that e-musc is a very small proportion of the music industry. Just last night, Cambridge University Student Union had a debate : 'Oasis or The Beatles - Who's Best?' (Thankfully the Beatles won). Now that is popular music for you. I can hardly see Oxford Univeristy Student Union debating 'Analogue or Digital - TDs Best?' --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi S3I Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) E-mail : cordrey@m... cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 4:46 pm Subject: Blue Ice Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' Last night I was playing a demo for a new computer game called Blue Ice. The intro info stated that the real game had a lot of musc on it (not in the demo) including FSOL, Orbital, Tangerine Dream and Duke Ellington (!?!). Moving around the rooms and views of this adventure game, there is a facility to see what music would be playing in the real game. So far I've found FSOL, Paul Schulze, Mozart, Ellington but no TD. Of course, it's only a small part of the full game so I assume it's somewhere in the non-demo region. Anyone heard of this game and, more to the point, what TD track appears in it? Thanks, --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi S3I Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) E-mail : cordrey@m... cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 10:55 am Subject: Most popular name in e-music Really-From: 'Grant Middleton' > Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > Whilst it is easy to say that TD are probably the biggest > name in e-music (although now having said that some are > sure to disagree) Well, sorry Craig me ole' mucka, I'm afraid I'm going to be the first. There is no way that TD comes anywhere near the 'Giants' of e-music like JMJ or Vangelis. Now, we all know that TD are the BEST, but in terms of public awareness or commercial popularity they are nowhere to be seen these days. Even in their greatest days (the '70s IMO), they were overshadowed by Monsieur Jarre's Oxygene and Equinoxe and Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells. In the '80s Jarre had a few singles in the charts, and many a respectable quantity of albums shifted. Kraftwerk topped the UK charts with 'The Model' and Vangelis shot to fame through 'Chariots of Fire' and 'Blade Runner'. A very few people stopped to look at the credits on 'Thief' and 'Risky Business'. My point ? Basically /we/ know everything about TD but in the public eye they rate somewhere a few notches down from Giorgio Moroder. It's a shame, but it's true. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _.^~~~~~\ Grunt ! [, @ E-Mail : grantm@d... \______/ /\ /\ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1392 Re: Most popular name in e-music TWeibre361@a... Mon 3/3/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: (Date Unavailable) Subject: TD and the quiz machine Really-From: G.K.Naughton@i... >Are TD world renowned? They may have been twenty years ago, >when they were constantly in the top twenty album charts in >the UK. Into the eighties, when I first started listening >to them and people would say 'Oh, yeah, I've heard _of_ >them, but not anything _by_ them.' In the late eighties >there was an awful lot of 'God, are they still on the go?' >and 'I haven't heard of them for ages.' Nowadays I usually >get a blank look. In the late eighties some friends and I, who are all TD fans, were playing one of those pub quiz machines, and one of the questions was 'Tangerine Dream were:' One of the choices was 'a synthesiser group', but I can't remember the others. So TD were past tense for some people almost ten years ago. On the train on the way back from the London concert we got a lot of 'God, are they still going?' responses :-) Not that any of this matters, though. I'll still stick with 'em... >Just last night, Cambridge University Student Union had a >debate : 'Oasis or The Beatles - Who's Best?' (Thankfully >the Beatles won). Now that is popular music for you. I can >hardly see Oxford Univeristy Student Union debating >'Analogue or Digital - TDs Best?' Hmm, I may be old-fashioned, but this kind of thing makes me incredibly sad. I love rock music to bits, but is it really a subject for the debating chamber of what was once, at any rate, one of the most prestigious universities in the world? On 'University Challenge' they used to ask questions about classical Greek architecture and mathematics. Now the subject matter is more about Tom Hanks films and David Bowie records. Ah well... Glynn From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 11:46 am Subject: Re: tadream-digest V15 #848 Really-From: Mark Filipak > Craig R. J. Cordrey wrote: > > > Ashok Prema wrote: > > > >> Marcel Engles wrote: > >> > >> Absolutely. Look at AirSculpture, Radio Massacre International and > >> Mark Shreeve. They all gone back analogue and have great success > >> with it! Great music can also be conceived with digital equipment > >> though. > >> > >> Marcel > > > > Well - how do you define success?? None of the above have made a > > dent in in the music world - whereas TD are world renowned - plus > > in terms of sales - the above are miniscule - a couple of thousand > > perhaps instead of tens of thousands like TD! Succesful?? > > certainly not commercially ! > > > > Ash > > Are TD world renowned? They may have been twenty years ago, > when they were constantly in the top twenty album charts in > the UK. Into the eighties, when I first started listening > to them and people would say 'Oh, yeah, I've heard _of_ > them, but not anything _by_ them.' In the late eighties > there was an awful lot of 'God, are they still on the go?' > and 'I haven't heard of them for ages.' Nowadays I usually > get a blank look. -snip- > > Craig R. J. Cordrey Whenever I talk with young trip-hoppers and mention TD, I'm amazed by the number who know the band. Some even know 'Zeit', 'Phaedra', etc. -- always the older stuff and then, of course 'Dream Mixes' -- not much in between. Hmmmm.... -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 8:42 pm Subject: Re: A Call to Arms (FYI:minimal TD content) Really-From: sbm@p... (Steve McCready) On Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:43:21 Craig wrote: >There appears to be a high level of intolerance on this >list, especially just lately. Unfortunately, that does seem to be the case more and more around these parts. One of the things I've liked about TADREAM is that, for the most part, it has not been filled with folks trying to guide what we talk about. People post what's on their mind (TD-related, that is), and the others respond to it or ignore it as they see fit. >We need opinions, and discussion, and eventually that WILL >give rise to dreams (no pun intended), desires and wishes >for the future. Am I not allowed to state that I LIKE >Underwater Sunlight more than Encore? That I WISH they >would do more in the early-eighties style than the >early-nineties? That I ACCEPT that they are artists who do >what they want, and therefore I either buy it or leave? As far as I'm concerned, you are. When I first joined this list, I paid very close attention to the different opinions people expresed about TD albums - it was often a key factor in the order in which I bought their CDs. I haven't always agreed with the prevailing opinion of the list (why, why, why does everyone like 'Exit' so much?), but it's still been valuable to hear the comments, both positive & negative, and in a couple of cases, it has helped me look at certain albums in a different light. >Do I really care if there's a millisecond drop-out on >channel A of song B on album C released by record company D >compared with that on record company E? > >No, I DON'T. But I accept it as valid discussion on this >forum. Agreed. >ALL MY OWN OPINION, of course. I find it unfortunate that some list members feel they need to put this in their posts, though I do understand why they have. -Steve sbm@p... Sacramento, CA From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 8:50 pm Subject: Re: Would you support a 70's TD today ? Really-From: sbm@p... (Steve McCready) On Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:00:00 +0000, Grant wrote: >I've just recently acquired a new e-mail account. Hello >to all Tadream members who know me and to those who >don't. Welcome back! >What I was wondering, though, was; If a band appeared tomorrow >who produced a '70s sound like Baumann era TD or Timewind era >Klaus Schulze, would there be a big market for it ? Would it be >as popular as the first time round, would it sink without trace, >or would it, in fact, be /more/ popular ? Well, what about the bands around today who are producing 70'sTD-like music? Anyone have any ideas how they are doing, popularity-wise? Personally, I can't find Node, Airsculpture, RMI, etc. anywhere in my area, so all I've managed to pick up from them was a Node song that's on Trance Europe Express 2. Also, I have no idea how popular TD & KS actually were in the 70's. >I would personally be delighted by such a band. What about the >other list members ? If they could take some of the sounds and ideas that came from the TD & KS of the 70's, and add a new twist or identity to the music, I'd love it. -Steve sbm@p... Sacramento, CA From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 10:22 pm Subject: X Files Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) Hi all, >Elephant, it gives me considerable pleasure to tell you that our Web Pages >are now up and running at the following address : > > http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dhughes/tbass.html > >Our music has been favourably compared to late-eighties Tangerine Dream, >synth pop pioneers Ultravox and Mark Shreeve in his synth-rock days i.e. For some unknown reason, the word 'Elephant' appeared in my previous post. Err, apart from that fact that the X Files were about to start on BBC1, has anyone an explaination for this? Actually, it should say 'After what seem like a gestation period longer than that of the African Elephant, it gives me great pleasure to tell you that...' Guess the cut 'n' paste button must have been getting twitchy again... ******* * * Important : please read... * ******* Also, would all those UK readers who are out of bed in time, have a listen to the opening titles of a BBC 2 program called 'Open Saturday' at about 0900. It is either Chris Franke or someone doing a very good TD rip off. Someone please put me out of my misery... Cheers David P.S. Anyone been to the web pages yet? Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1332 Re: X Files Gabe Yedid Fri 2/28/1997 2 KB 1335 Re: X Files Gabe Yedid Fri 2/28/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 4:16 pm Subject: Re: X Files Really-From: Gabe Yedid On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, tadream mailing list wrote: > Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) > Also, would all those UK readers who are out of bed in time, have a listen > to the opening titles of a BBC 2 program called 'Open Saturday' at about > 0900. It is either Chris Franke or someone doing a very good TD rip off. > Someone please put me out of my misery... But isn't the UK full of bands that can do very good TD rip-offs? ;) (just HAD to say it) > David > > P.S. Anyone been to the web pages yet? > I'll be sure to have a look! Gabe Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1335 Re: X Files Gabe Yedid Fri 2/28/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 4:25 pm Subject: Re: tadream-digest V15 #848 Really-From: 'Marcel Engels' > Really-From: ashok prema > >> Absolutely. Look at AirSculpture, Radio Massacre International and Mark >> Shreeve. They all gone back analogue and have great success with it! >> Great music can also be conceived with digital equipment though. >> >> Marcel > > Well - how do you define success?? None of the above have made a dent > in the music world - whereas TD are world renowned - plus in terms of > sales - the above are miniscule - a couple of thousand perhaps instead > of tens of thousands like TD! Succesful?? certainly not commercially ! > > Ash OK, thats a good question: What is success? They are not commercially successful compared to TD nowadays. Does sales really mean that you are good? When TD just started, were they commercially succesful in the 70s? I don't know the exact number of sales but I don't think they were that succesful. Maybe looking back now. Now that they make more mainstream music they are succesful, but back then it was music for the selected few. *One* example of success for me is right here on this list: When a TD CD is being reviewed here and all of the people gave for example Tangram 5AS and Turn of the Tides 3AS then, for me, Tangram is a bigger success then Tott. The same is for Node, RMI etc. I hear so many people saying they really liked Node, Shreeves music and I hear so many people (not all) complaining about the new TD, then I think those 'new' bands are more successful. Everyone, of course, should decide which music he/she prefers. Marcel From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: TD for Slackers Really-From: Steven Feldman >Subject: Re: tadream-digest V15 #848 >Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 03:46:46 -0800 >From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) >Really-From: Mark Filipak > >Whenever I talk with young trip-hoppers and mention TD, I'm amazed by >the number who know the band. Some even know 'Zeit', 'Phaedra', etc. -- >always the older stuff and then, of course 'Dream Mixes' -- not much in >between. [. . .] Easy explanation: they like DREAM MIXES because--of all of TD's output--it comes closest to what they like, i.e. listen to the most, and they like the 1970-1975 material because they've been told or read in the rock press that they're *supposed to* like early 1970's 'krautrock' (Amon Duul, Can, Eloy, Faust, Kraftwerk, Van Der Graf Generator, . . .). It also has something to do with the fact that RUBYCON is perhaps the most sampled analog record by amateur and/or would-be rave mixers. -- Steven Feldman and Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1343 Re: TD for Slackers Mark Filipak Sat 3/1/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 4:39 pm Subject: Re: X Files Really-From: Gabe Yedid On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, tadream mailing list wrote: > Really-From: Gabe Yedid > > > But isn't the UK full of bands that can do very good TD rip-offs? ;) > (just HAD to say it) I think I should have added that I meant nothing personal here. (I was thinking more of Airsculpture, RMI, and the like.) Gabe From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 4:55 pm Subject: Jerome's drums Really-From: John Wilson Let's have a straw poll... There has been a lot of criticism of Jerome's drumming recently; am I the only one who like it?! (Basically because his drum sequences ``kick bottom'' as I believe our American cousins would say.) Older TD stuff with drum loops often just either lost the drums in the mix or made you wish you couldn't hear them anyway because they were just a regular Dum ... tick ... tick ... tick ... Splut ... tick ... tick ... tick ... Dum ... tick ... tick ... tick ... Splut ... tick ... tick ... tick ... [etc] I was listening to DM last night and particularly the start of ``CHnage of the Gods'' really caught me because it is so dynamic. I'd be sorry to see that go. John W. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1341 Re: Jerome's drums dbrewer@a... Fri 2/28/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: I *Like* 'Colorado Dawn'! (was Jerome's drums) Really-From: Steven Feldman >Subject: Jerome's drums >Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 16:55:51 +0000 (GMT) >From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) >Really-From: John Wilson > >[. . .] There has been a lot of criticism of Jerome's >drumming recently; am I the only one who like it?! [. . .] Well, quite often, *I* do. One of my fave tracks from CANYON DREAMS is 'Colorado Dawn,' the all-Jerome track that so many people seem to dislike. In fact, when I made a sampler tape of TD's 1990's output for folks who think that TD is an out-of-date and/or New Age band, it was the second track (after 'Dolls in the Shadow') that I put on the tape. (Um, er, it *did* have something to do with the fact that the collection I assembled was arranged in chronological order.) >[. . .] >I was listening to DM last night and particularly the start of ``CHnage >of the Gods'' really caught me because it is so dynamic. I'd be sorry to >see that go. My two fave DREAM MIXES tracks are 'Rough Embrace' (*love* that hyper piano run: best since RICOCHET?) 'Change of the Gods,' the latter because it is so ethereal, sorta like 'Dolls in the Shadow' and 'Touchwood,' with a little bit of 'Remote Viewing' (from EXIT) added in for good measure. Opinions, opinions. (At least I'm not grousing this time, eh?) -- Steven Feldman and From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: 'Ultima Thule' 45 & Ones 45: Both on CD Compilations Really-From: Steven Feldman >Subject: Ultima Thule on a Compilation? >Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 21:42:29 -0500 (EST) >From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) >Really-From: Vic Rek > >> As it is, 'Ultima Thule' is only on a European compilation CD, and >>for *I* know, this compilation draws from materials from more than one >>label. > >Which compilation CD is this on? Dunno. I just remember seeing it mentioned on this list two or three years ago. Also mentioned at the time was a European compilation CD that has the Ones single, 'Lady Greengrass'/'Love of Mine' on it. -- Steven Feldman and From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 6:10 pm Subject: Really-From: 'Martin R. Mckee' <625732@i...> unsubscribe tadream-digest Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1446 Armin Theissen Wed 3/5/1997 4 KB 1936 Armin Theissen Tue 3/18/1997 2 KB 1959 ashok prema Wed 3/19/1997 3 KB 1962 Re: Mark Filipak Wed 3/19/1997 3 KB 2225 feldon@n... Tue 4/1/1997 2 KB 2228 Re: Greg Tue 4/1/1997 3 KB 2397 - Sun 4/6/1997 2 KB 2466 Martynas Storasta Tue 4/8/1997 2 KB 2706 Darren L Oswald Tue 4/15/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 8:23 pm Subject: Re[2]: D:_-_-_-'Tyranny Of Beauty'-_-_-_ Really-From: Brian_Kirby@p... >Really-From: PNaunton@a... > But, Mark, is it REALLY music. Certainly TD has aspired to high >art, and, in several cases I can think of, Made It. 'ToB', 'HoF', & 'L' >doesn't aspire to music. They are simply masturbation. The previous, in my, >maybe/maybe not, humble opinion, of course. >Phil Naunton Ha ha ha ha ha! So that's what that stuff on the inside of my jewel case was! Twenty-eight going on fifteen, B. Kirby From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 8:27 pm Subject: Re: Jerome's drums Really-From: dbrewer@a... > Quoted From: John Wilson > > Let's have a straw poll... There has been a lot of criticism of Jerome's > drumming recently; am I the only one who like it?! (Basically because his > drum sequences ``kick bottom'' as I believe our American cousins would I think he uses some good rhythms, but unfortunately, he tends to recycle them a little too much; until Dream Mixes and Goblins' Club came along and he actually had some new patterns to show off. Being a drummer as well, I pay extra attention to that. I do appreciate how he tends to stay away from the standard 'Boom-chick-Boom-chick' that gets way overused in Pop and Rock anymore. (like in AC/DC's music for example) I guess I'm more into jazzier rhythms. > say.) Older TD stuff with drum loops often just either lost the drums in > the mix or made you wish you couldn't hear them anyway because they were > just a regular > > Dum ... tick ... tick ... tick ... Splut ... tick ... tick ... tick ... > Dum ... tick ... tick ... tick ... Splut ... tick ... tick ... tick ... [etc] I usually consider those drum parts as part of the repetative sequences, only playing with percussive sounds, instead of musical notes. (I love that Quichotte pt2!) ('Splut'?? :-) ) > I was listening to DM last night and particularly the start of ``CHnage > of the Gods'' really caught me because it is so dynamic. I'd be sorry to > see that go. Yeah, I like what he did on that song. Dave Brewer From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 11:11 pm Subject: PCI_VGA Really-From: Mark Filipak Hi All. Found an interesting article. Most of you who are professional musicians probably already have this. A good number of VGA card manufacturers are squeezing out a few extra points on their winbench scores by locking up the PCI bus. This is fine for graphics and most systems on the PC (hard disks and such) don't even notice the problem.... Unfortunately this can hurt the audio system in a big way. It's a rather long article so rather than post whole thing, I will send it to whoever requests it. Contact me off-list please mailto:filipak@k...?subject=PCI_VGA -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Feb 28, 1997 11:53 pm Subject: Re: TD for Slackers Really-From: Mark Filipak tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: Steven Feldman > > > Subject: Re: tadream-digest V15 #848 > > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 03:46:46 -0800 > > From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) > > Really-From: Mark Filipak > > > > Whenever I talk with young trip-hoppers and mention TD, I'm amazed by > > the number who know the band. Some even know 'Zeit', 'Phaedra', etc. > > always the older stuff and then, of course 'Dream Mixes' -- not much > > in between. [. . .] > > Easy explanation: they like DREAM MIXES because--of all of TD's > output--it comes closest to what they like, i.e. listen to the most, > and they like the 1970-1975 material because they've been told or > read in the rock press that they're *supposed to* like early 1970's > 'krautrock' (Amon Duul, Can, Eloy, Faust, Kraftwerk, Van Der Graf > Generator, . . .). It also has something to do with the fact that > RUBYCON is perhaps the most sampled analog record by amateur and/or > would-be rave mixers. > > -- Steven Feldman and > Easy explanation, Steve but I'm not sure it's right. These guys really do prefer to chill to older TD. They don't follow the rock press anyway. In general they detest rock-n-roll and certainly detest anything that smells of 'the press'. I think it has more to do with the fact that bellbottom pants and platform soles are back in style and even more so that people are eating a lot more acid lately. :-) -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 1, 1997 4:54 am Subject: Spot the irony! (Re:Compilations...) Really-From: goozer@a... (Hermes Guzman) Greetings all! I really, really, _REALLY_ tried to keep this one in! Basically because it's not polite to laugh at the expense of others, but I just can't help myself these days...: ) It seems that our Mr. Feldman received a rather quick answer to his missive asking Miramar to put together a box set! Within 24 hours of his post, Miramar proved they could hustle with the big guys by releasing their own 5-CD set... a repackaging of the 5 studio albums... at a new low price... with a free poster offer inside! What do you want to bet it's for leftover '92 tour posters? : ) (And before you say it; yes, I _know_ it's a collection, not a compilation. The irony still holds true.) ========================================= Now, to seriously answer his response to my post... Compilations are issued basically to do one thing two ways: make money for the company by (A) getting the fans to purchase another CD, and (B) hopefully increase the fan base by getting the casual listener to 'sample' a 'new' band. The company makes a nice profit either way, as the cost of releasing a compilation (including artist royalties) comes nowhere near a proper release, due to the fact that they own the material already. Which is a good thing, as compilations (for the most popular bands) sell _at best_ half as much as a proper release. The fan hopefully gets a good representation of what the band had to offer during the period covered, while the casual listener hopefully gets a good introduction to the bands' work of that period. Neither one cares how altruistic the label is, only that the music is good. And as far as the company is concerned, the only period that matters is the one to which _they_ hold the rights! When an artist leaves a label, it is rarely on good terms. And as is common, each party may decide for whatever reasons to withold material from licensing (usually the label) or publication (usually the artists undelivered material from that period). The artist almost invariably has no hope of preventing the old label from issuing material already released as part of a compilation, or releasing it to 'Ronco-Tel' for their evil purposes. These types of labels do not directly compete with the major labels. And again, the old label has no desire to see the artist make money for the new label, who _is_ a direct competitor. So in this instance, licensing fees would be (and are in fact) exorbidantly, in some cases even, ludicrously high. Let's also not forget that even when the artist is consulted about a compilation, they may not wish to have certain pieces released, for whatever reason. As regards TD's rarities specifically, and just who is looking for them; again, this list provides a _huge_ clue that your assumption is seriously flawed. A small but noticeable portion of this list _doesn't know_, and in some cases _doesn't care_, about everything out there. It doesn't matter _how_ cheap it is! Remember, this list provides for a _very_ skewed bias towards the truly die-hard fan, so this tends to greatly magnify the idea that we all want everything. As such it is not representative of the fan base at large, who for the most part (in my long experience) are not as...well..._fanatic_. They can take it or leave it, basically. As for the film studios, nowhere did I even _imply_ that they were 'saintly' or 'benificent'. Soundtracks exist for one purpose only: to make money for the studio. If they happen to sell a few more tickets as well, so much the better. This is why you have the 'Flavor of the Month' soundtrack (if applicable) released first, followed (much) later, if at all, by the original score. The labels are interested in that high profile 'Flavor' disc, but have little interest in the 'niche market' score. The studios usually could care less if the score gets out, unless it's to a blockbuster. And unless it's a blockbuster, most every soundtrack is pressed in relatively low numbers one time only. This is both the label and the studio minimizing their risk, as scores in general don't sell very well. The small labels to do manage to get some of these scores out do so by buying the rights to the score, usually outright. Then they hope to make a profit by selling perhaps 10.000 copies, if they're really lucky. It's usually never worth the hassle for any label. To sum it all up, until one label decides that they have to be _the_ label for the entire TD catalog, or Edgar manages to buy back all the rights, your 'UberCollection' will be a really cool bootleg. At least if the sound quality is better than what's already been put out there. Any more questions? goozer From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 1, 1997 7:40 am Subject: Re: Mystery tour dates Really-From: Mark Filipak tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' -snip- > 1977 > Denver: TD+s Web site mentions Baumann announced he was leaving in > Denver near the end of the tour, but no mention is made in Voices of > said concert occuring. Could Denver be the mysterious second venue below? First North American Tour 77 [Mar-Apr 77] ENCORE LIVE Riverside Theater, Milwaukee [29 Mar 77] Ford Auditorium, Detroit [31 Mar 77] Convention Center Music Hall, Cleveland [2 Apr 77] Lisner Auditorium, Washington DC [4 Apr 77] Avery Fisher Hall, New York City [5 Apr 77] Convocation Hall, Toronto [?? Apr 77] Place Des Arts, Montreal [10 Apr 77] Hilton Convention Center, Quebec City [11 Apr 77] Dufour Auditorium, Chicoutimi, Canada [?? Apr 77] Paramount Theater, Seattle [21 Apr 77] Civic Auditorium, Santa Monica [25 Apr 77] Second North American Tour 77 Greek Theater, Los Angeles [12 Jul 77] ? -second venue- ? Edgar injured in equestrian accident - cuts tour off. -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 1, 1997 10:14 am Subject: Info on CDs and CDRs Really-From: Mark Filipak This link below will take you to a series of Kodak articles on CD and CDR technologies, their expected lifetimes, and steps to take to preserve them. http://www.Kodak.com/daiHome/techInfo/permanence.shtml From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 1, 1997 11:11 am Subject: stratosfear 1994 / FAQ Really-From: 'Lars R. Jones' <105411.3107@c...> Dreamers, sorry if my postings have seemed a little behind lately, I can only upload/download my mail about 2-3 times a week. But I wanted to clarify these queries (if someone else already has, forgive me) since I have all? 3 TOB releases and 2 of TOTT I hope Hermes doesn't mind if I help him out with a humble attempt at an FAQ answer of my own. >From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) >Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 20:13:37 -0500 >Subject: Re: D:_-_-_-'Tyranny Of Beauty'-_-_-_ >Really-From: goozer@a... (Hermes Guzman) >I can't understand that everyone is talking about Stratosfear 1995, my copy >of Tyranny of Beauty really says Stratosfear 1994. Does somebody else >also have this 1994 version? >Marcel >Uh...double check it to make sure. I have the original Miramar release and >the TDI re-issue and they both list it as 'Stratosfear '95'. >goozer Marcel must have the AMP records version of TOB which, as I've just noticed, lists 'Stratosfear 1995' (Miramar & TDI releases) as 'Stratosfear 1994'. The AMP Records version of TOB (AMP-CD 027 ) is the UK-only release (although it obviously must have ended up in Canada too unless Marcel mail-ordered his); both the TDI (TDI002CD--steve you are indeed correct!) and AMP releases are now available in the UK. Additionally, there is the US-only (north america only?) Miramar release (which I don't have with me). across the bottom back cover the AMP release says: AMP Records PO Box 387, London N22 6SF, United Kingdom There is, of course, the possibility (which I can't confirm) that the AMP release is a pirate but I doubt it.... The AMP release cover insert artwork is very close to the TDI/Miramar releases, except that the AMP uses a slightly lighter shade of blue on the cover and a different type font. Beyond that, The band (in yellow) and title (blue green) are listed at the top of the AMP release whereas the on the Miramar/TDI release, TD is at the top and TOB is at the bottom (both in a warm yellow color). Other differences include no UPC label on the AMP, the track times are listed in parentheses on the AMP version. On the Miramar/TDI release, the front cover art is about 10% larger than the AMP while on the reverse, the AMP has artwork about 10% larger. On the AMP insert, the track listing and credits are on the inside in black on and white with two pictures of Jerome, edgar and linda in venice; on the back of the insert in white on black the credits are listed with another photo of the band with Carnival hats in a gondola. The AMP version is also missing the text on the back cover that states all tracks by EF and JF 'except stratosfear 1995 and largo' and the appropriate credits for those tracks are also missing on the back cover. The TDI release says 'made in austria'. Additionally the TD logo is missing on the AMP release. Musically, the AMP and TDI are the same; both include the Bonus track Quasar; musically there is no difference (that I can hear) between the two copies and the listed track & times are exactly the same. I believe that the TDI and Miramar releases differ only in respect to the bonus track 'quasar' which does not appear on the North American release (only on the miramar TOB promo single). I'm fairly certain that TD must have contracted for this release since TDI may not have had the appropriate license or distribution network for the UK at the time of the release. It would be interesting to know about how many copies of the AMP release were put out and whether it is still in print. Can anyone confirm/answer this? Now, on to TOTT: There are at least three versions of TOTT, two were mentioned by Steve F. (his TDI copy is, I expect, a reissue), the other (which may be a reissue, or a UK-only version) is Coast to Coast / Zabo Music CTCZ 108 which includes the bonus track 'Story of the Brave'. This insert for this version is essentially identical to the US version (with the 'special edition - limited picture disk' bubble on the US cd and the words 'Includes Bonus-Track Story of the Brave' on the zabo version) ; they of course also differ with regard to the miramar/zabo labels and addresses. The Miramar picture disc is clearly labelled MPCD 2806 and dated 1994; the 'picture' is a screened print violet blue that fades toward the center (so that it produces a donut effect) and pink 'teeth marks' / dentiles are used in semicircles (half the spindle area is pink also); the song titles and times are also listed along the outside edge of the cd. It is not much of a picture disc! the Zabo one has the same pink dentiles but a uniform light blue-green screening and no track titles; there is no date on the zabo disc although the booklet (stapled just like the miramar release) includes the P & C 1994 Tadream music/production inc. Lars (Hermes, do I get a now prize too? :-) On a few other topics: --Did anyone get 'the Brick'? is the poster offer limited edition or ?? any indication of what it is? are the miramar singles included? --In reference to 'True North' it is not a movie or even a TD video, it is a Miramar compilation video/cd/laserdisc that features one? track by TD (sorry I don't have it with me) just like several other miramar compilations. True north is, however, quite a good compiliation (musically and visually) and I always enjoy seeing TD put to film/video. In fact, it's showing on all continental flights to europe this month. Somewhere at home I have the Miramar list of all this stuff on which TD appears; A video compiliation of TD would be a great tape! lars From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 1, 1997 11:10 am Subject: essay: Michelangelo & TD, Part I Really-From: 'Lars R. Jones' <105411.3107@c...> MA & TD essay, Part I Ritual Disclaimers: 1) Warning! this is a very long post in 2 parts; please feel free to skip this (apologies to TLM) 2) This essay does contain substantial, TD-relevant, deep, dark, 'socially evil' commentary; just bear & bare with me; 3) This is not malicious, anti-TD/EF, or a personal attack on anyone. 4) This is written as a critical/analytical essay and NOT just under the guise of random thoughts 'IMO' written IMO (unless noted): please try to read it that way (if in doubt, refer to #3 above) Hermes, Steve, Mark, et al., I'm sure as an artist (Hermes), you've had some art history and so know something about what you are saying. The problem is, however, when invoking Michelangelo as an example, that one must realize there are at least two different 'Michelangelos': one is the person the 'real' Michelangelo wanted us to know/believe in; this is the person to whom you seem to be referring but who is as much a fiction as 'The Coachman's Tales.' As I will attempt to demonstrate here, Michelangelo very carefully crafted his own self image; he was very conscious of his position in history and systematically destroyed thousands of pieces of correspondence, drawings and what he thought were 'inferior' works because they detracted from his image as infalliable, divinely inspired genius (he was perhaps the first artist to have done so). Still we have a lot of material remaining from him but probably the most important and problematic creation was his self-image/myth--which is coincident with the notion of the artist as heroic but tragic, a loner/outsider unappreciated and not understood by his contemporaries but literally divinely inspired. This is the 'myth' of MA (MichelAngelo) that persists in too many uncritical treatments of his work--including some textbooks and the film 'The Agony and the Ecstasy'. The 'other' Michelangelo is the 'real' historical person whom we can never know--but to whom you seem to be referring/confusing with the 'myth.' We can, however, attempt to come to terms with this historical person as someone completely different from the mythological 'Michelangelo.' To do so, we create an alternate fiction based on different sorts of data (in the end, it is still a fiction but, I would argue, less of a fiction the The Myth). The first step in doing this is to realize that Michelangelo, as most of us have come to know him, is little more than a self-created fiction (I shall return to this later). Now this is not just the beginning of a non-TD diatribe. Let me attempt to elucidate the problem before us because it has direct bearing on our dicussion of Tangents, EF and TD in general. Bear with me while I contrast the fiction 'MA The Myth' (employed by Hermes) with one alternate fiction of MA (the art historical). My intention is not to ridicule or to attack Hermes or anyone else (he is certainly entitled to his opinion and has every right to express it, that is beyond question) but to draw attention to some logically 'dangerous' and problematic arguments within our own realm of criticism (TD). Please remember that I have previously expressed my undying love for TD's music etc. and so feel no need to restate my opinions in this essay. Sections of the following text excerpted from: >Really-From: goozer@a... (Hermes Guzman) [...] >Perhaps no better example to this is MIchelangelo. He was a sculptor by >trade, and created the most beautiful statuary and reliefs known to man [this, of course, should read: 'IMO'] In fact, Michelangelo began his artistic career as a painter; he was apprenticed to Domenico Ghirlandaio. The sculptor claim was made in his in his own letters and in the biography allegedly written by his semi-literate assistant Condivi but now believed by many historians to have been written by MA (MichelAngelo) himself in response to Giorgio Vasari's 'Life of Michelangelo' in the 1st edition of Vasari's 'Lives of the Artists' which MA did not like (in much the same manner that Edgar speaks of critics); in his 2nd edition of the 'Lives,' Vasari published the document proving that Michelangelo began his career as a painter; a second edition of Condivi was never forthcoming and Condivi returned to his small town and small art. This of course implies that MA's work on the Sistine ceiling might not quite as remarkable since, if we are to believe the sources and poorer historians, his claim that painting was not 'his art' is demonstrably false. Indeed, he had painted at least three _major_ works for private patrons (not counting works lost and the work done as an apprentice to Ghirlandaio) before the Sistine: the Manchester Madonna, the London Entombment (both London, National Gallery) and the Doni Tondo (Florence, Galleria degli Uffizi). The fact that his works are judged as the summit of beauty by 'modern `man'' is to propagate the 'realist' misconception of art, to which I shall return momentarily. MA's art was a product of his time, just like TD's music is a product of ours. What is important to note here is the humanist notion priviledging 'art' as an endless 'evolutionary' march toward more and more perfect naturalism/illusionism/realism so that any 'fall' or divergence from this path is held to be one toward decline and decadence--you aren't a 'photorealist' are you Hermes? I didn't think so. This misconception of art as a teleological/goal-directed 'evolution' toward greater realism was first perpetrated by the Florentines themselves in the late 13th and early 14th century in which it was essentially used as a nationalistic gesture. In the early 15th century, 'realism' was synthesized with 'classicism' (this is also where the notion of the 'Renaissance' as something different from the 'Middle Ages' originates). At this time, the quality of art was judged by what I have termed elsewhere 'the canon of naturalism/realism' where art ('type') was valued more highly the closer it approached the natural/the real ('prototype') (NB: this concept of the 'natural' or the 'real' was slightly different than our own). Soon this value system was appropriated by the artists themselves in their bid for higher social, economic and intellectual status and we observe a period of 'competitive naturalism' (eg: Leonardo). By the time MA began work on the Sistine, the 'best' artists had just plied their way far enough up the social-intellectual ladder that they could take some liberty in rendering the prototype; thus was born 'Mannerism,' a period in which most of MA's work belongs including IMO the Sistine Ceiling. 'Realism' in the service of the Catholic Church took on even greater impetus (albeit with less artistic liberty) after the Reformation and Counter-Reformation. In late 17th century and early 18th century France, 'realism' once again came to be associated with the artist's desire for a higher status (it took about a century longer in France than in Italy for the 'medieval' workshop tradition to break down and reassert itself in the form of the art academy). As the French monarchy collapsed in its own decadence (and partly under the model of the American Revolution) and as the French struggled through political crises, certain 'classical'/'realist' modes of discourse (artistic, moral, literary, political, etc.) came to be asserted again for nationalistic/propangandistic purposes. Further impetus came from the class struggles inherent in the breakdown of an imperially stratified society where 'realist' values were often used to assert the primacy of the upper classes by overt reference: we are cultured in the classical tradition, therefore we have the right to dominate you (a sort of secular parallel to rule by divine right). The power vaccum brought by the collapse of the French monarchy had no small impact on the era of Neoclassicism in which much of Europe and the newly independent US had enveloped themselves. The dominant and 'cultured' classes sought (and still do seek, eg: Jesse Helms) to perpetuate their supposed supremacy by reference to 'classical' and 'realist' values and to suppress the uneducated (and thus 'uncultured') lower classes. This was the era in which the myth of Michelangelo and the 'modern' artist really came strongly to the fore, especially in the wake of the work of German scholars like Wincklemann (whose text on the virtues of classical sculpture was immensely influential for the formation/enculturation of our own tastes) and Burckhardt (whose notion that modernity and the individual were products of the Renaissance was in no small way dependent on Michelangelo). By the industrialization and urbanization of the mid-19th century, 'modern' artists had begun to rebel against the 'realist' CLASS-ical tradition. These artists, who we tend to think of as the first 'modern' artists, refused to work in classical styles and genres or to create art with classical subject matter. In doing so, they fashioned themselves as the rebels of a brave new world (much like TD did in the late 60s and 70s). 'Modern' art, however, is not necessarily the great 'novel' invention it is asserted to be. That is, 'modernity' should be seen as just a self-constructed myth that seeks to define itself as not dependent on the 'realist' / 'classical' mode. Of course, this construction itself relies heavily on the Michelangelian notion of the anti-establishment artist-genius doing his own thing with no reference to audience or patron (do you see the TD parallel?). Thus, we in the 20th century are left with an obscured legacy: the last century has created a taste for a 'realist' mode of art that is highly structured along class (and gender) lines; 'modern' art has further perpetrated a conception of art and artist that is not only self-perpetuating but also self-reassuring when confronted with an artist like Michelangelo. By failing to comes to terms with its own 'realist' origins, 'modern' art has not only failed to obscure the source it sought to reject but has, in fact, perpetuated and elevated it. If we can see any historical 'truth' it is only 'through a glass darkly'. The same could be said of Edgar and the anti-establishment context from which TD's music emerged--but let me return to this later. Michelangelo had his own nationalistic/political, personal and social agenda, just as I am sure that TD has its own agenda--albeit a somewhat more veiled agenda. The supposedly a-political concerts in Poland and E. Berlin obviate rather than disprove this point because TD's motivations can be read in at least three ways: 1) as altruistic acts done in 'solidarity' with 'the people' and in opposition to the Communist Governments (TD's claim), 2) as acts motivated by pure self-interest in complete disregard for their 'audiences' and fans in these two venues (a 'miscognition' to which we shall return later), and 3) as acts of tacit cooperation and collusion with the Communist governments: they were allowed to play either because the government did not perceive them to be a threat or because they in fact were not a threat. Choosing not to enter the political arena is to engage in a negating dialogue, one where your 'voice' is only 'heard' by virtue of its absence. Take Edgar's quote about music being pure and above the political world; that is nothing but bullshit--but we _want_ to believe it. Music is no purer than any other form of discourse. No 'artistic' mode of communication, no matter how far it strays from verbal, visual or aural referents, can ever be a-political or without meaning for that matter (for how do you differentiate what is 'political' from what is not? I don't really need to give examples here do I?). EF's quote is nothing other than a form a negating discourse and his voice is not being heard; TD's status as a 'non-threat' is the product of a negating discourse. >was also an architect (later in life), and gave us St. Peters in Rome. He Donato Bramante (in the first years of the 16th century) is the one who originally designed and began work on the New St. Peter's. He was followed as papal architect (after his death) by Raphael and San Gallo (both of whom also died in office) and then MA. Indeed, others followed MA but he is not the original source (though admittedly he exerted the most influence over the final outcome but this may be due, among other considerations, to the length of his tenure as papal architect). >was at last a painter, and though he felt that his talent here was He was first a painter, see above. >secondary, he gave us the Sistine Chapel Ceiling, perhaps the most >transcendant painting ever done [you mean 'IMO' ]. It was also _not_ what his patron >expected. Had he listened to Pope Julius, his 'public', the result would I would beg to differ about transcendence, but that is just MO. What did Julius II want? Did he--as MA himself claims--give MA free reign to do anything he pleased in the most important church in the world? Yes, the Sistine Chapel was and is the power center of the Christian/Catholic world. This is where all private papal masses and papal ceremonies take place (ceremonies are about nothing other than the display of power and the allowing of access to a ceremony is in itself a very significant exercise of power). The Sistine (it takes its name from Pope Sixtus IV) was built in the 15th century as the new site of papal ceremonial. As such, it replaced the Sancta Sanctorum chapel at the Lateran (the Lateran Basilica was and is the official papal church although the popes had taken up residence in the Vatican Palace after the papacy returned from its 'Babylonian captivity' in France in the 14th century). The importance of the Sancta Sanctorum (and its replacement the Sistine) is indicated by its inscription 'There is no holier place on earth.' ('Sancta Sanctorum' means Holy of Holies and is an appropriation of the concept of the most sacred part of Jewish temple--described in Exodus--which was the nexus between the earthly and heavenly realms and thus the focus of religious and secular power). The same meaning, it is clear, was codified into the Sistine Chapel and its ceremonial as well. I and many other historians (yes, I am an art historian) seriously doubt that such an important work in such an important place would be trusted to solely to the whims of ANY artist. It is typical at this time that patrons (often through theological advisors) exerted substantial control over any significant work (especially religious works!) and we have every reason to suspect that Julius II did the same. Indeed, there are several precedents to the Sistine (in form and content) that were known to Julius II but completely unknown to Michelangelo. Clearly, Julius II knew what he wanted and got it. This is not to say that MA couldn't still exert substantial influence: he did but we clearly cannot trust his own self-assertatons on this matter. >have been diametrically different. Instead, he listened to another Voice, As should be clear by now, I am suggesting that not only did Michelangelo 'listen' to his audience/patron but that he actively created the physical image that Julius II wanted but the self-image of how he wanted it and himself to be seen by us-- the 'beholder' participates in every illusion/deception by definition. >and changed forever the face of art. This is not to compare TD to >Michelangelo, of course, but to support the ideal that they both aspire to. Well, if we want to get right down to it, a drainage problem that caused the Sistine's foundations to settle and its original vaulted ceiling to crack and leak so that its plaster decoration began to fall off in chunks with the threat of severe bodily injury may be the 'real' reason for this 'change' :-) Although the Sistine ceiling frescoes were never really responsible for a 'change' in the face of art. [...] >3) Michelangelo's understudies. Back to the Renaissance. Every great artist Most artists, great or not, had assistants (many were slaves from Africa and the 'Middle East'); these 'garzoni' or shop boys, were especially used for the prepatory 'grunt' work (like washing walls, mixing pigments, applying plaster and even for providing sexual favors to The Master). Although it is true that some garzoni were talented and did became masters most never amounted to anything. These garzoni should be differentiated from apprentices (whose families arranged for their training) and who were intended to become independent masters after the completion of their apprenticeship. This point isn't really applicable to TD, since it would be saying something like: the janitors in Edgar's studio work their way up to the mixing table and then on to the drum machine, guitar and synthesizer; eventually they become part of the band before finally striking out on their own sucessful careers. >had in his employ numerous understudies to assist with their work in some >fashion. Some of these understudies went on to become masters in their own >right (look 'em up, I won't say who!) Michelangelo had hired five men to Actually very few of his assistants are of any note (note that Vasari was not his assistant); Sebastiano del Piombo being an exception (although not a very substantial one).... >assist him to paint the Sistine ceiling, and they all worked with him for a >time. However, they were all...er..._let go_, and Michelangelo completely >erased what they had done and started anew. In it's execution, they were >part of a collaborative effort, yet the 'founder' completely recast their Yes he started with some assistants (some where used only for paint-mixing and plastering) but there are also other reasons for letting them go (not the least of which was the financial crises brought on by Julius' military campaigns when even MA didn't get paid). There are also many other reasons for destroying this previous work, not the least of which may be his historical sense of self-image. Indeed, MA was a loner to a large degree (Raphael depicted him this way in the nearby fresco, the 'School of Athens' in a very derogatory representation). Perhaps this is partly related to his personality which seems to have been quite unpleasant (if you were a peer or subordinate). >'contributions'. Is the ceiling any less for this fact? I hardly think so. >Sure, the assistants' weren't the equal of Michelangelo, but they were >talented in their own right. Yet their vision didn't agree with >Micelangelo's vision, and it is his vision that mattered. There is absolutely no basis for these assertions. Again, I would argue that it was the pope's vision that mattered. Michelangelo too answered to a higher authority even if he would have us believe otherwise. (Essay continues in Part II) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 1, 1997 11:10 am Subject: essay: MA & TD, Part 2 Really-From: 'Lars R. Jones' <105411.3107@c...> MA & TD Essay: part II Hermes, I don't mean to ridicule you or berate you by picking apart your comments; I too have used MA as an example to defend Tangents, particularly in relation toEF's recasting of previous works (although using completely different examples and situations). Normally I wouldn't have responded to these 'errors in fact' but I think there is a broader and more important sub-text here, one that directly concerns TD and the various recent criticisms of Tangents. Part of what is at issue is MA's own self-projected and self-created image and its relation to TD/EF (as opposed to someone like MA's contemporaries Raphael and Leonardo, both artists as great or greater IMO, but who never seem to have engaged in any sort of this fanatical self-representational behavior). Your comparison to 'MA the myth' is well taken but only if we compare this to 'TD/EF the myth,' the TD most of us know is the TD created through their music and words--self-creations, controlled in their dispensations through limited access to the original source. As with MA, there are two TDs/EFs and I don't think this argument/comparison works. I would also argue that TD, like many artists, is very aware of the image it projects and that EF is, like MA was, a consumate businessman (a point not addressed in your post but implied in the posts of others). Was MA concerned with whether or not the patron/audience liked his work? I think so, absolutely: the Pope held the power over MA's spiritual life and eternal damnation (and Julius II spared/saved MA's corporeal skin more than once). To imply that MA was unconcerned with religion and the future of his soul is simply naieve and demonstrably not the case. Had Julius II not liked or objected to the Sistine ceiling you can bet every one of your TD rarities that it would have come down pronto or been stopped in the act. Church doctrine is neither instigated nor instituted by artists, doctrine begins with theologians; the same goes for interpretations (of which MA's work is one example). Does TD need to consider their audience this way? It doesn't really matter since they are not working under the same circumstances; were they composing under someone who held the very real power of life and death in his/her hands, you can bet they would be listening. I would also suggest that, despite what he says, Edgar has listened to his critics/audiences in the past (Cyclone being one example, not touring in Germany being another) and does so to some extent now even though he doesn't want us to believe it (that is part of the myth). You can bet that if TD released a new album and nobody but the 400 people on this list bought it, TD wouldn't be releasing more material in that style again--regardless of what EF thought about its artistic merit. Our image of TD is based on what we are told and what we are NOT TOLD by TD/EF (take the case of TDNAN). To say that EF does NOT do something many of us would find unpalatable/indecorous, like releasing Tangents solely to make money, is just as naieve as saying he did do it for that reason (unless you have knowledge to which we are not privy). Further, we must consider the source and its reliability. Even if Edgar came out and said no, he was never concerned with money when he reworked Tangents, could he really be taken at his word? How do we index his trustworthiness as a source? By our love of his music? By that ear-to-ear smile? Do we really know what he was doing/what his motivations were? A good example is Dali--now I don't need to remind you of his relevance to EF-- he was an artist who was also the biggest perpetrator of artistic self-fraud that we know. He would do things like sign blank sheets of paper and sell them so that 'original Dalis' could be printed or painted (by someone else) and sold by dealers to innocent fans and admirers and aspiring collectors! Now I don't think that Edgar would ever stoop to that level but the point is: can the art/motivations/ statements of someone like Dali--who shows so little regard for his audience as to have no qualms about ripping them off purposely--ever be taken seriously in the same light again? To bring it to another level, Edgar claims to show a blatant disregard for his 'audience' & critics (albeit more so in print and less so in concert) . He says that he/TD never consider audience/critics' opinions in the creation of their works (as I have argued, I don't believe that really to be the case). This being said, can we really assume, then, when it comes to remixing projects like Tangents, etc. that his motivations are altruistic or 'purely artistic' and not financial? How do you _know_ that he is not ripping us off? He doesn't seem to care what we think--at least that is what he SAYS. Do you see where I am heading? The point is not whether EF has a 'right' to rework the material (that is beyond debate). The point is that the text/myth we create based on his mis/information is inherently a paradox: Like 'realist' art, we priviledge the idea of the altruistic artist-hero (MA/EF) charging boldly into the uncharted future, braving the critical tide and surrounded only by the loyal, illuminated few (and most of us on Tadream do not fall into that category)--he can do no wrong; further, we assume that as 'fans' we participate in some small but distant way in his enlightenment and artistic vision (we buy his work). This is an image which, I would argue, we (the fans and the culture) have created for Edgar (or any 'great' artist) and which Edgar very knowingly supports (whether he admits it or not). Yet we fail to see that, interwoven within Edgar's presentation/perpetuation of this realist/artist as hero myth that we value so dearly, there are a number of signs that directly contradict the realist myth: if EF doesn't care about his audience what is to stop him, like Dali, from taking advantage of them? If EF does not listen to his audience, then he acts in his own self-interest. If we admit that EF acts out of self-interest (which he must do, the question is only one of degree) has he become part of the establishment from which we seek to differentiate him? If EF/TD return/s to the past, is he/are they no longer exploring uncharted territories? If Edgar considers his audience (as he certainly does to some degree) is he no longer braving the critical tide? Has he 'sold-out'? If EF is guilty of one of these short-comings, does he no longer meet our definition of the 'artist-hero'? Is his artistic production and its merit then called into question and, further, is our self-conscious identification/participation in his artistic 'enlightenment' thrown into doubt? Of course, we don't like to address this paradox (we just stop buying TD cds after or before a certain year as, for example, is suggested by the analog vs. digital debate). When myth and deed don't square we tend either to deny it or to 'rationalize' it, thereby creating a 'miscognition' (we mutually agree to pretend otherwise without ever saying so); that is, we choose to create or subscribe to an alternatively preferable reality. Unfortunately, when a miscognition mutually held by a culture/society (we on Tadream form our own little sub-culture) is called into question, what usually happens is that the offender who called attention to the miscognition is punished/attacked as a heretic or an idiot. Calling attention to a miscognition is to threaten the very fibers that hold the society/culture together. Bear with me now since I am about to tie this all together. Let's try this critical analysis from another viewpoint in the context of the present Tangents debate: Fact: Edgar remixed the material on Tangents; theory 1) EF did it for the money. Would a 'greatest Virgin years hits' sell without any new material? The prevailing sentiment on this list is no. The music industry knows this (even 'the Brick' offers a poster--ooh boy); EF knows this. It is _unarguable_ that new mixes and new tracks were seen as a way to make Tangents more marketable (it is the motivation for these remixes that we seek or, perhaps, wish not to seek). Still, this is not conclusive evidence that he did or did not do it for the money. Nor can this point be resolved logically by resorting to the amount of effort involved in Tangent's production since that just furthers implies the possibility that the motive was profit (since more new material should equal more sales). Note, the theory is not 'EF needs the money' / 'EF doesn't need the money' --this is another miscognition. Indeed EF has stated this very point--that he does not NEED the money. We _never_ say: 'EF _wants_ the money' because this does not square with the anti-establishment, artist-hero/'realist' myth. But once we ask 'Does EF _want_ the money' we run into the real issue in this part of the debate and the one that throws the very essence of _The Myth_ into question: could EF really be acting out of blatant self-interest and, dare we say it, 'greed'? Here we slam into another social paradox: the indentification of our perception of the artist and his/her work. Our appreciation for MA's work is only heightened by our participation in the 'realist' myth of MA as divinely inspired artist-genius. We like the Myth, so we presume to like the artist and thus we like his/her works; it also works the other way 'round. By participating (buying or looking), we presume to elevate ourselves closer to the prototype (and so to share in the artist's 'enlightenment'). To phrase it another way: if Edgar were being greedy or, for that matter, if he were behaving like Stalin (etc.), would we still like his music? We certainly seem to believe that evil minds produce evil works (the socio-moral prohibition against employing the results of the Nazi medical experiments on the Jews being a case in point). I have now, of course, brought our sub-culture's first miscognition into the light.... Here, then, we arrive at Theory 2) Because he is an artist, EF intended the remixes on Tangents, etc. as artistic productions, therefore they must be 'art' ('realist' sub-text: therefore they are sacred and beyond 'our' challenge). Here, we also run dead-on into the 'intentionalist fallacy': because EF is an artist we say he intended the remixes on Tangents to be 'art' and attempt to prove this with direct reference to Tangents itself as art, a point that is 'proved' by saying 'either you get it or you don't', it is not for us mere mortals to judge the artist-hero. Edgar is an artist therefore Tangents is art; Tangents is art because Edgar is an artist. Do you see the vicious circle forming? I have now brought the second of our sub-culture's miscognitions brought to light... There is, of course, another and, I believe, more rational approach to the argument: that is to admit both points have merit until proven otherwise (by external reference). Did Edgar want the money? Sure, why not, he IS human, isn't he? Is that wrong? or, more to the point, is he being greedy/socially immoral? I can't answer that but not because I don't want to know; there is just no external indication and judgment must be withheld. If you ask me 'but what do you think/believe?' You've fallen into another trap and proven the point 'belief shapes society, society doesn't shape belief.' Once I think/believe EF did or did not consciously _want_ the money, I have negated the need for evidence; I have now chosen either to participate or not to participate in our first miscognition. Does Tangents have artistic merit? Sure it does but NOT because 'it is art' or because EF 'is an artist' (second miscognition). It has artistic merit simply because I, the individual beholder, _say_ it does (NB: this question is not about belief). I say it is art/has artistic merit solely because it engages me emotionally and rationally and irrationally in such a way that it correlates with my internalized (socially structured) pre-/conception of 'art': such is the essence of the discourse between the beholder and the object/artist. Other beholders have the right to perceive Tangents as 'not-art' and to state that case on this forum. We know what EF says but does the beholder _really_ matter? Absolutely! Who _ELSE_ is supposed to decide whether to piss in that Urinal or to contemplate it! (That, however, is another essay and it is time I ended this one.) cheers! Lars (self-designated list heretic :-) (HG:I've lost that prize now, right?) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1356 Re: essay: MA & TD, Part 2 arnold kalnitsky Sat 3/1/1997 4 KB 1359 Re: essay: MA & TD, Part 2 Vic Rek Sun 3/2/1997 2 KB 1365 Re: essay: MA & TD, Part 2 gary.cresswell1@v... Sun 3/2/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 1, 1997 9:36 pm Subject: Trip Hoppers Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) Hi All, >> in terms of sales - the above are miniscule - a couple of thousand >> perhaps instead of tens of thousands like TD! Succesful?? >> certainly not commercially ! Why do you think their sales are miniscule? They create a product which EM fans the world over would give their right arms for. Reason : we can't get the distribution, we can't get the airplay, we can't get a decent deal that would guarantee some kind of return on our investment. >Whenever I talk with young trip-hoppers and mention TD, I'm amazed by >the number who know the band. Some even know 'Zeit', 'Phaedra', etc. -- >always the older stuff and then, of course 'Dream Mixes' -- not much in >between. Hmmmm.... -- Mark Total agreement here, Mark. Everyone : Handy hint : take a trip to the latest 'Rave' bar or student's union in Newcastle and ask anyone of the cool trendy (weird) clubbers if they've heard of TD and the response is instant : Edgar is highly thought of and respected. TD started it all. Rave acts use TD as the inspiration for thier new music. Ever listened to the 'new' rave bands? Go to a night club and listen to some of the bass riffs these folk are playing. You may even hear a mellotron crooning in the background. Cheers David From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 1, 1997 5:28 pm Subject: Re: Would you support a 70's TD today ? Really-From: PhilPDX@a... In a message dated 97-02-27 13:39:40 EST, you write: << Absolutely. Look at AirSculpture, Radio Massacre International and Mark Shreeve. They all gone back analogue and have great success with it! Great music can also be conceived with digital equipment though. >> Exactly what I was going to say Marcel? Would I support a 70's TD sound today? I would and I do!!! I own works by all of the above, though I'm sure you refer to Shreeve's Redshift, which I don't yet have - hope to someday soon! Long live 70's like TD in these and other great bands! There is a LOT to still be done with this style, and I enjoy it immensely. Phil D. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 1, 1997 5:28 pm Subject: Re: What is this list about? (was Re: New Day) Really-From: PhilPDX@a... In a message dated 97-02-27 01:24:07 EST, you write: << Well, my post apparently hit some hot bottons and it blew up. I don't take back a word of it and I recommend rereading Goozer's post and mine. But to make it simple, and putting all principles and methods aside, I guess what is essental and what I ask that everybody who is bashing the band and Edgar please stop. No more 'Sickening' threads, please. Regards -- Mark >> No one asked you to take anything back. In return, please don't tell us what we should or should not say. I respect your right to your opinion, and respect others. If they want to bash Edgar and the band (which I've done on one or two points, and later wished I hadn't), it's their right. I admit, I prefer older TD, but I DO keep buying their CD's. :-) And I always want to hear other listeners' opinions, good and bad, to help me in my listening choices. Phil D. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 1, 1997 5:28 pm Subject: Re: What is this list about? (was Re: New Day) Really-From: PhilPDX@a... In a message dated 97-02-26 21:30:31 EST, you write: << This is a relatively low-bandwidth list with a relatively high signal to noise ratio, I think it is not a good idea to mess with something that is working. If this were an extremely high-bandwidth list, it might warrant splitting up, but the fact is, it really isn't working that badly. >> Great post, Dave. I sometimes think the list goes off on 'Tangents' (couldn't resist) that I'd rather not, and once in awhile it annoys me, but that's my problem. People are free to say what they want, as long as it doesn't deteriorate into a series of personal attacks against each other, which happens rarely on this list, and we seem pretty good at self-policing for that sort of thing. I've been on the list for 2 years now (unbelieveable how time flies - my daughter will turn 1 next Friday), and enjoy it immensely. There is no better place for TD-related information that I've found, not to mention great recommendations for TD-like music from great new artists. And considering what a diverse group we are, I think this is one of the most polite, open-minded lists I've found. Phil D. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 1, 1997 5:50 pm Subject: Digest V15 #849 ??? about 'Lady Greengrass' Really-From: Craig Shipley Hello, I think that the single in question was released in the early '90's on a German compilation CD series titled something like 'Best Of The Star Club Vol. 2'. Don't have it so I cannot confirm it, but I do remember reading about in the TDIFC newsletter. As far as 'Ultima Thule', I don't think that it has ever seen the legitimate light of laser... Craig Shipley craigs@p... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1358 Re: Digest V15 #849 ??? about 'Lady Greengrass' Vic Rek Sun 3/2/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 2, 1997 1:45 am Subject: Re: tadream-digest V15 #849 Really-From: ashok prema Really-From: 'Marcel Engels' > Really-From: ashok prema > >> Absolutely. Look at AirSculpture, Radio Massacre International and Mark >> Shreeve. They all gone back analogue and have great success with it! >> Great music can also be conceived with digital equipment though. >> >> Marcel > > Well - how do you define success?? None of the above have made a dent > in the music world - whereas TD are world renowned - plus in terms of > sales - the above are miniscule - a couple of thousand perhaps instead > of tens of thousands like TD! Succesful?? certainly not commercially ! > > Ash OK, thats a good question: What is success? They are not commercially successful compared to TD nowadays. Does sales really mean that you are good? When TD just started, were they commercially succesful in the 70s? I don't know the exact number of sales but I don't think they were that succesful. Maybe looking back now. Now that they make more mainstream music they are succesful, but back then it was music for the selected few. *One* example of success for me is right here on this list: When a TD CD is being reviewed here and all of the people gave for example Tangram 5AS and Turn of the Tides 3AS then, for me, Tangram is a bigger success then Tott. The same is for Node, RMI etc. I hear so many people saying they really liked Node, Shreeves music and I hear so many people (not all) complaining about the new TD, then I think those 'new' bands are more successful. Everyone, of course, should decide which music he/she prefers. Marcel ------------------------------ However we define 'success' on an individual basis, in general discussion - we HAVE to take into account the general meaning of the word as used in the English language. On a personal level, I would consider sales of 1000 cd's of my own music a financial succes since I will have made a cuople of thousand pounds from it - but to a disinterested party it would not be a succes once yu take into account the equipment costs (inc depreciation), the hundreds of man hours spent etc. Once these are costed - as they should be in any real business, a few thousand cd sales would not spell any sort of success in the business world. RMI, AirSculpture, Shreeve and Node - produce fine music no doubt - but even Shreeve himself and Node would admit that the 'TD style 1975' type music is a labour of love - as the costs far outweigh the income - assuming there be any at all. Node spent 10.000 Pounds to play a live gig at Paddington Station - they got TV exposure - yet there sales have not really taken off. Last I heard they had sold around 7000 copies - great by any 'back-bedroom/home studio' type musicians - but this figure doesn't even go anywhere near covering the cost of the equipment. To my mind, success is either having record sales in excess of 30,000 per release, or being signed up by a major label with a hefty advance (say 50,000 UK Pounds) and then producing well selling albums.(many new acts dive and are never heard of again!) Perhaps TD cannot meet these criteria nowadays, but they did at some stage in their careers - making them a succesful band. Also, it is a measure of TD's success that they can fill a 2000 seat hall after 20 years - OK this pales into insignificance when you compare with , say other major names who can fill Wembley Stadium - but TD continue to make a living producing music - and I'm pretty certain, that in the industry, everyone has heard of the name 'Tangerine Dream' - even though they may not have heard any of their music. - I doubt this can be said of Node, AirSculpture etc (sadly!) Finally, TD DO have a comfortable lifestyle now as a result of their music ergo, to my mind they have been and remain succesfull (albeit to a lesser degree) - the others - myself included - are not. We all have to have some other occupation to fund this love of music.. I must add that Mark Shreeve has proved a small success - not so much with his synth music releases but to 'popular music' collaborations and other projects - he is one of the rare EM artists who has been able to live of his music for many years now - but his 'Red Shift' project (again '75 TD style music!) has not yet proved to be a success. Ash Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1386 Re: tadream-digest V15 #849 John Wilson Mon 3/3/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 1, 1997 10:08 pm Subject: Re: essay: MA & TD, Part 2 Really-From: arnold kalnitsky Dear Lars; I read your two essays with interest.In fact, the differentiation between 'myth' and 'history' that you deduce in reference to the artistic domain in fact can be found just about everywhere where perpetuation of image and legacy is considered important. It happens all the time, from political figures to sporting heroes. Transitory deeds, events, works, are turned into the substance of accomplishment in all realms of endeavor once taken from the realm of the physical and reflected upon in the realm of the contemplative. That is why the consideration of 'art for art's sake' can be a legitimate exercise in distinction from evaluating a work or career soley based on the historical and psychological factors surrounding the act of creation. Once a work is created it can be judged purely on aesthetic criteria, though knowledge of historical and social facts do add amplification and guidance to the process. Personally I may not choose to spend my time exploring a given work because I don't approve of certain individual or cultural factors which contributed to the creation of the work, but once I voluntarily engage, I try to evaluate purely on aesthetic grounds. Focussing on specifics, I didn't buy Tangents because I didn't think the outlay of that amountof money was worth the mostly re-worked versions of familiar creations. However, I feel it was still a legitimate exercise on the part of Edgar. The boxed set may have been intended to attract newer, less familiar listeners who would be desirous of an introductory anthology.I don't really like re-done versions of older works, preferring for an artist to let the past speak for itself and spend the time and energy on new creations.Be that as it may, even if the motivation was financial, it was a choice I can accept even though I found the point moot. As well, I think the focus on alleged personal motivation for creating given works or holding specific concerts also is irrelevant in large part.If that criterion is applied everywhere else then how many books, movies,other musical works, in fact almost all products would be purchased or viewed. Since art is also a livelihood we shouldn't be too elitist in expecting purity from financial considerations. However, once a work is out in the marketplace it must be judged by it's own aesthetic criteria, by the taste of the fans who make the financial comitment.That is what myth and legacy will be about. In future years art will stand or fall on it's own aesthetic import, not on the conditions and circumstances which surrounded it's genesis. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 2, 1997 12:52 am Subject: TD: The ultimate chill Really-From: Mark Filipak 120 to 240 beats/minute is only half the rave scene. The other half is chill, and TD is considered by many to be the ultimate chill. Some who really like cold isolationism would not agree of course, but most folk prefer a 'warmer' chill (if that makes sense) -- mellotron and the like. -- Mark tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) > > Hi All, -snip- > > Whenever I talk with young trip-hoppers and mention TD, I'm amazed by > > the number who know the band. Some even know 'Zeit', 'Phaedra', etc. > > -- always the older stuff and then, of course 'Dream Mixes' -- not > > much in between. Hmmmm.... -- Mark > > Total agreement here, Mark. Everyone : Handy hint : take a trip to the > latest 'Rave' bar or student's union in Newcastle and ask anyone of the > cool trendy (weird) clubbers if they've heard of TD and the response is > instant : Edgar is highly thought of and respected. > > TD started it all. Rave acts use TD as the inspiration for thier new > music. Ever listened to the 'new' rave bands? Go to a night club and > listen to some of the bass riffs these folk are playing. You may even > hear a mellotron crooning in the background. > > Cheers > David From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 2, 1997 5:35 am Subject: Re: Digest V15 #849 ??? about 'Lady Greengrass' Really-From: Vic Rek At 12:50 PM 3/1/97 -0500, you wrote: >Really-From: Craig Shipley >Hello, >I think that the single in question was released in the early '90's on a German compilation CD series titled something like 'Best Of The Star Club Vol. 2'. Don't have it so I cannot confirm it, but I do remember reading about in the TDIFC newsletter. You are 100% correct, except that it is Vol. 12, not 2 - but that's probably what you meant. Details: Lady Greengrass 2:41 Love of Mine 3:04 The Hamburg-Sound 842 544-2. There is a small picture of their single on the cover. The exact year of issue is not mentioned on the CD. > >As far as 'Ultima Thule', I don't think that it has ever seen the legitimate light of laser... I agree. No 'legal' laser burn available. Vic From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 2, 1997 5:35 am Subject: Re: essay: MA & TD, Part 2 Really-From: Vic Rek >I don't really like >re-done versions of older works, preferring for an artist to let the past >speak for itself and spend the time and energy on new creations. I agree totally! I can go along with a remaster without a problem, but re-mixing, re-editing, etc... No! Klaus Schulze will never do this. He moves on and keeps proliferating good electrical tunes. Keep the new music coming! Vic From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 2, 1997 7:51 am Subject: 'Galaxies' $4 plus p&h Really-From: Mark Filipak Kevin Braheny 'Galaxies' I found this at my local store's bargain bin and though I already have it, I couldn't pass it up for US$4 knowing that someone on this list is bound to want it. Add California tax & shipping and this classic is in your hands for US$6.50, worldwide. First come first served. -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1361 'Galaxies' $4 plus p&h Mark Filipak Sun 3/2/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 2, 1997 2:55 pm Subject: 'Galaxies' $4 plus p&h Really-From: Mark Filipak Kevin Braheny 'Galaxies' I found this at my local store's bargain bin and though I already have it, I couldn't pass it up for US$4 knowing that someone on this list is bound to want it. Add California tax & shipping and this classic is in your hands for US$6.50, worldwide. First come first served. -- Mark PS: I posted this earlier, but it looks like either TaDream was down or my ISP is filtering against it. So if this is redundant, please excuse me. I just wanted to give you guys a chance at this before I post to the Spacemusic list. -- M From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 2, 1997 3:38 pm Subject: Recent acquisitions and some tips Really-From: Mark Filipak Recent Acquisitions (all bought from ProgTron -- contact info is at the end of this review): Mark Shreeve 'Assassin'. A 1994 digital CD of Mark's first album (ca. 1984). Now I know why people rave about Shreeve. Very smooth synth filling with a nice crunchy coating. Has the same velvety consistency as the early 80s TD with the same hard and interesting edge to it. Very highly recommended. Ranjit has a fair stock of Shreeve, but alas, no 'Redshift' yet. Tranquility Bass 'The Infection of Time'. A little sweeter and more romantic than Shreeve, but very good stuff. Together with 'Assassin' these two albums make a great complement to early 80s TD. What's TB like? Imagine a collaboration between TD and the Canadian band Exchange and you will be spot on. Ranjit now has 5 copies of this left. I'm glad I got mine. I'll be doing a full review of this album soon (hopefully before album #2 comes out this summer). Tangerine Dream 'Live! Improvised!' I'd heard so many bad things about the sound of 'unofficial' CDs that I'd been steering clear of them. Boy, was I wrong. This is a double CD of the imfamous 74 Rheims Cathedral show and it cooks. The sound is excellent, the show, superlative. If TD had done a live album covering their improvisational years, it couldn't have been better than what's found on these two CDs. This is a must have. I bought Ranjit's last copy. Will he get any more? Ask him. Tangerine Dream 'Coefficient of Aural Expansion' and 'Coefficient of Aural Expansion Part 2'. Two CDs worth of the 75 Royal Albert Hall concert. The first is a CD and the second is a CDR. Full packaging for the first but just a pretty shabby piece of thin paper and no backpaper for the second. But that's okay -- I bought a double jewelcase and combined them! Not quite as good sound as 'L!I!' but still very, very good. If you never got a chance to take in a TD live show in the 70s, these CDs are 'the next best thing to being there.' Ranjit has a fair stock of both of these but I wouldn't wait too long to get them. Tangerine Dream 'Danger Live'. Two live shows from 1976 recorded in Brussels. Again, very good sound and outstanding performances. Being improvisational, it's difficult to characterize the music. It's as spacey as 'Zeit', 'Atem', and 'Phaedra' but with a more melodic flow to it and just the hint of some of the thematic structures that TD was to develop later in the 70s and early 80s. Everyone on this list who really loves the Pink and early Virgin years should just bite the bullet and fork out the $120 or so it will take to get 'L!I!', 'CoAE', 'CoAE2', and 'DL' while they're still available. They are a window on the band and it's epic improvisational shows that cannot be found elsewhere. Ranjit has just a handful of 'Danger Live' still around. So who is Ranjit? He's the proprietor of ProgTron, a mail order dealer and a very nice person. All the old timers on list know him or know of him, but a lot of you newer folk probably don't. Ranjit and I both live in San Jose and I've met with him the last two weekends. He has a lot of stuff. I don't think his prices and selection can be beat. http://www.webpage.com/progtron/index.html He has lots of stuff _not_ on his web page yet, so send him your want list (email address in on his web page). I shop ProgTron before I shop around. Regards -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1374 Re: Recent acquisitions and some tips TheSmitter@a... Mon 3/3/1997 2 KB 1381 Re: Recent acquisitions and some tips Mark Filipak Mon 3/3/1997 3 KB 1383 Re: Recent acquisitions and some tips feldon@n... Mon 3/3/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 30, 1997 12:10 pm Subject: Re: Network 388 Really-From: jeffrey@i... Craig R. J. Cordrey wrote: > > Hi there, > > A long, long time ago you posted instructions on how to get > the Network 388 tape. Could you run them by me again, > please? How many copies of the tape have you made? ANy > requests from outsie the list? Craig To obtain a copy of Network 388 send a self stamped return reply envelope (4X32 cent stamps in the US / 5 international reply coupons or $3 US for postage to Europe) and a blank cassette or $2 which gets you either a Maxell XLII 90 or TDK SA 90 to: Jeff Bergman 215 E 95th ST Apt 11K New York, NY 10128 I would approxiamate that I have mailed out about 40 copies which is equivilent to 10% of the list. Minimal requests from outside the list, probably due to the fact that no one outside would know about it. Im glad to see people are still intersted in the cassette. For those unfamiliar with Network 388, its a cassette featuring 12 fellow list members playing electronic music and I think its quite good. Jeff d Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1600 Network 388 David J. Hughes Sun 3/9/1997 3 KB 1681 Re: Network 388 jeffrey@i... Tue 3/11/1997 4 KB 1704 Re: Network 388 Erik Sanborn Tue 3/11/1997 4 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 2, 1997 4:18 pm Subject: Supporting a '70's style TD in the '90's. Really-From: Craig Shipley Just wanted to throw in my two cents... I am one of those 'analog' camp denizens that think that the best TD years ended when Chris Franke left the band. I think that there was a synergy (don't sue me, Larry!! ;-) ) between the two that has never been equaled (think Lennon & McCartney, Rogers & Hammerstein, Froese & Franke...). The addition of sterling performers such as Baumann and Schmoelling (OK, Haslinger wasn't as bad as the light we held him in, in retrospect...) just helped to increase the creativity and power of the band. I think that Froese should dust off the older analog gear and putz around for a while with it... Anyways, as far as supporting a ''70's style TD', I would like to make it a more generalized statement. I support, both through financial and communicative means, good electronic musicians. There are a number of individuals right here on this list that I own music by or intend to purchase real soon, having heard their music or reading recommendations from on the Net (you don't think that local press or radio here in Atlanta would talk or play this stuff, now really....). The problem is, that the music that is my favorite type is not available at the local music stores here (unless you are one of the Big Three, TD/JMJ/Vangelis, forget it!) I want to buy music by Paul Nagle, Marcel Engals, Air Sculpture, RMI, Node, Ashok Prema, Dweller At The Threshold, etc. but these bands aren't just available at my local Tower Records or Blockbuster (Lackluster?) Music. I have to use either direct from the artist purchases (which I prefer, I like to know that my money is going directly to the artist that is bringing me pleasure and not to some conglomerate that is more concerned about where the latest 'pop king' is coming from next) or a specialized mail-order house (I have found a nice compromise in dealing with Windspell Music, run by the synthesist Michael Garrison. Anybody want info on his company, email me privately. If you are looking to distribute your music in the US, you should definitely be dealing with Windspell!!). So, yes, I will support a '70's (or '80's) TD-style band (or a JMJ, Seventh Wave, Space Art or whatever obscure '70's electronic musician) in whatever way I can. It's just very challenging sometimes... (Paul and Marcel, I haven't forgotten, really! Just been busy...) Off note; does anyone know if Of Sound Mind is still in business? That is a great prog/electronic/eclectic music store in Baltimore MD. The number has been changed and I haven't been able to make contact... objCDPlayer: Rob Essers / Raincolours (great '70's/'80's TD sound! A god one to track down...) Craig Shipley craigs@p... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 3:04 am Subject: Re: essay: MA & TD, Part 2 Really-From: gary.cresswell1@v... > Really-From: gary.cresswell@v... > > >I don't really like > >re-done versions of older works, preferring for an artist to let the past > >speak for itself and spend the time and energy on new creations. > > I agree totally! I can go along with a remaster without a problem, but > re-mixing, re-editing, etc... No! Klaus Schulze will never do this. He > moves on and keeps proliferating good electrical tunes. Keep the new music > coming! > Vic Hi I must dissagree, I have 32 Tangerine Dream records on vinyl all before 1988 ( when I bought a CD player) I have no intention nor the means to replace all these records with CD's especially when their is a lot of new music begging to be bought. However I feel a little happier parting with my hard earned cash for something a little different for example the box set 'Tangents'. I personnaly think 'Tangents' is excellent and I enjoy the re recordings.The Virgin years are without doubt my favourite. It does not distract me from the original recordings in fact it revitalised my interest. My only critism of Tangents is the breaking up of tracks especially Logos Live which is to me one of the best pieces of EM ever. (I witnessed that tour) Cheers Gaza ps Ithink Dream mixes is the best thing from TD in years From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 2:41 am Subject: Canadian Music Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) Hello, >> Really-From: Gabe Yedid >> >> >> But isn't the UK full of bands that can do very good TD rip-offs? ;) >> (just HAD to say it) > >I think I should have added that I meant nothing personal here. >(I was thinking more of Airsculpture, RMI, and the like.) Gabe, Is there more to Canadian Music than crooning over a maladjusted Beaver? ;) Cheers David dhughes@g... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1367 Re: Canadian Music Mark Filipak Sun 3/2/1997 3 KB 1368 Re: Canadian Music Gabe Yedid Sun 3/2/1997 3 KB 1369 Re: Canadian Music sean Sun 3/2/1997 3 KB 1395 Re: Canadian Music Plumer, Scott Mon 3/3/1997 2 KB 1409 Re: Canadian Music Gabe Yedid Mon 3/3/1997 2 KB 1403 Re: Canadian Music TWeibre361@a... Mon 3/3/1997 2 KB 1404 Re: Canadian Music TWeibre361@a... Mon 3/3/1997 2 KB 1406 Re: Canadian Music TWeibre361@a... Mon 3/3/1997 2 KB 1414 Re: Canadian Music Steve Quinney Tue 3/4/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 2, 1997 8:27 pm Subject: Re: Canadian Music Really-From: Mark Filipak I didn't know you could be so mean David. ;-) Don't know about new stuff (hmmmm... wait a minute, what about Windy and Carl?) but I remember FM and Exchange quite fondly. -- Mark tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) > > Hello, > > >> Really-From: Gabe Yedid > >> > >> > >> But isn't the UK full of bands that can do very good TD rip-offs? ;) > >> (just HAD to say it) > > > >I think I should have added that I meant nothing personal here. > >(I was thinking more of Airsculpture, RMI, and the like.) > > Gabe, > > Is there more to Canadian Music than crooning over a maladjusted > Beaver? ;) > > Cheers > David > dhughes@g... PS: I had a maladjusted Beaver once. The damned critter turned around and bit me. -- M From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 2, 1997 9:09 pm Subject: Re: Canadian Music Really-From: Gabe Yedid On Sun, 2 Mar 1997, tadream mailing list wrote: > Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) > > > Gabe, > > Is there more to Canadian Music than crooning over a maladjusted Beaver? ;) > > Cheers > David > dhughes@g... > (Hey! No knocking beavers! Darn, wish you UKers had a national animal we Canucks could bash...and I don't insult toads, I like toads) Well that depends, do you consider Alanis, Bryan Adams, Barenaked Ladies, Celine Dion, or The Tragically Hip to be any better adjusted? (and need I mention Rush?) There are indeed good Canadian artists out there, just that there aren't many--folks like Loreena McKenitt come to mind. None of the above are what I am thinking of, BTW, and I personally don't know of any good Canadian TD clones. Even among people I know, a bunch of German dudes with large synth racks is inevitably seen as something very Euro-club. Gabe Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1369 Re: Canadian Music sean Sun 3/2/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 2, 1997 9:27 pm Subject: Re: Canadian Music Really-From: sean > (Hey! No knocking beavers! Darn, wish you UKers had a national animal we > Canucks could bash How about the Bulldog? I can't think of any Canadian artists working in the TD vein either. There's Michael Danna, who scores quite a few movies, but he's more ambient (sort of like Michael Stearns). But if you extend the borders a bit, I would suggest Michael Brook....his album 'Cobalt Blue' is just fantastic. Partially world music, partially electronic, a dash of 'new age'....all underpinned with his amazing guitar playing (often with his invention, the 'infinite guitar'...a copy of which U2s The Edge employs). Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR http://www.topix.com/~sean 'I used to be indecisive, but now I just don't know' From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 2, 1997 11:20 pm Subject: Encores during Logos concert Really-From: feldon@n... Could someone privately respond (or publicly if ye should wish) as to what the names of the Encores are during the Logos concert? I know the third one was new and called 'Dominion'. Morgan feldon@n... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1375 Re: Encores during Logos concert PNaunton@a... Mon 3/3/1997 2 KB 1397 Re: Encores during Logos concert Plumer, Scott Mon 3/3/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 2, 1997 10:40 pm Subject: E-music for sale Really-From: 'Kenneth W. Beal' I have Synergy and Lightwave CDs for sale. E-mail me privately for list. Ken kwb10@l... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 1:26 am Subject: Heartbreakers & The Blob Strks Really-From: Vic Rek What do these have in common? Nothing, except that I'm looking for them. If anyone can part with these items, I'd be happy to make a generous offer. 1. Heartbreakers - Original German Virgin CD release only 2. The Blob - CD soundtrack by M. Hoenig Also looking for: 1. Video of 'Body Love' NTSC format (copy is fine) 2. Rare samplers with Tangerine Dream 3. Rare Tangerine Dream CD-Rs. If any fellow fans can help, please e-mail me privately. Send me your want lists if you would like. Maybe I can find something for your collection. I also have a trade list I can e-mail upon request. Vic From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 2, 1997 3:40 pm Subject: [Fwd: Re: Dream Roots Collection] Really-From: Jeff Kortsch This may interest U.S. members of the list: Subject: RE: Dream Roots Collection Date: Sun, 23 Feb 97 17:38:00 +0000 From: Shea Stone To: Jeff Kortsch Thank you for your interest in the Dream Roots Collection. As mentioned in Goldmine and other magazines, the collection IS in fact going to be released in the US in the summer. But only because we're driven by dollar signs :) ---------- From: Jeff Kortsch To: email Subject: Dream Roots Collection Date: Sunday, February 23, 1997 12:33PM Why have you stiffed Tangerine Dream's US fans by not releasing the Dream Roots collection in the US? Oh, I will get it but I will have to pay the cost of shipping and have to wait 2 to 4 weeks to get it because it is not an US release. Do only dollar signs drive what you do?? Maybe Edgar and Jerome chose unwisely.... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1419 Re: [Fwd: Re: Dream Roots Collection] Rich Maggio Tue 3/4/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 3:53 am Subject: Re: Recent acquisitions and some tips Really-From: TheSmitter@a... A foolish question...I own CoAE (Part 1), but not Part 2. I've never purchased a CDR before. Is it all music with some video, all music and video, or I am I wrong on both guesses? Is the Part 2 music the same as Part 1's, but with video, or completely different music? Can someone pull me out of the dark ages as to what music CDRs are all about (I just bought a CDR player a few weeks ago)? Thanks, Larry Smith << Tangerine Dream 'Coefficient of Aural Expansion' and 'Coefficient of Aural Expansion Part 2'. Two CDs worth of the 75 Royal Albert Hall concert. The first is a CD and the second is a CDR. >> From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 4:40 am Subject: Re: Encores during Logos concert Really-From: PNaunton@a... In a message dated 97-03-02 18:20:35 EST, you write: << Could someone privately respond (or publicly if ye should wish) as to what the names of the Encores are during the Logos concert? I know the third one was new and called 'Dominion'. Morgan feldon@n... >> Er, did they have Logos during the Encore concerts? Sorrrrrry, I couldn't help it. Somebody, help! Phil Naunton From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 6:17 am Subject: straw poll Really-From: AslanFan1@a... I enjoy Jerome's drum work. He is far more interesting in his work than edgar when it comes to percussion. Once again, I stand in the shadows singing 'I LIKE THE NEW STUFF. Sorry, but I do. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1379 Re: straw poll feldon@n... Mon 3/3/1997 2 KB 1384 Re: straw poll feldon@n... Mon 3/3/1997 2 KB 1385 Re: straw poll feldon@n... Mon 3/3/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 3:22 pm Subject: Re: tadream-digest V15 #851 Really-From: ashok prema Mark Filipak wrote saying Ranjits 'Progtron' did not have copies of Shreeves 'Red Shift'. I suggest you try him again - they should be with him by now - or in this week! Ash Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1382 Re: tadream-digest V15 #851 Mark Filipak Mon 3/3/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 4:06 pm Subject: logos encores Really-From: Armin Theissen > >Could someone privately respond (or publicly if ye should wish) as to what >the names of the Encores are during the Logos concert? I know the third one >was new and called 'Dominion'. > >Morgan >feldon@n... > Another one - I guess it was the last one - was 'White Eagle', but I cannot remember a third from the concert in Duesseldorf (October 1982). Armin Armin Theissen ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Armagh Observatory email: ath@s... College Hill http://www.astro.uni-bonn.de/~theissen Armagh, BT61 9DG Phone: (+44) 1861 522928 Northern Ireland Fax: (+44) 1861 527174 From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 9:41 am Subject: Re: straw poll Really-From: feldon@n... At 01:17 AM 3/3/97 -0500, you wrote: >Really-From: AslanFan1@a... > > >I enjoy Jerome's drum work. He is far more interesting in his work than edgar >when it comes to percussion. Once again, I stand in the shadows singing 'I >LIKE THE NEW STUFF. Sorry, but I do. Do I know you? From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 10:28 am Subject: Get Dream Roots Collection Now! Really-From: feldon@n... I live in Texas and I've had the Dream Roots collection for over a month. $55 including shipping. http://www.rpmrecords.com/ Morgan feldon@n... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 10:19 am Subject: Re: Recent acquisitions and some tips Really-From: Mark Filipak Just as a CD can hold pictures (or just sound or programs -- anything digital) so a CDR can hold pictures, etc. The difference is in their construction and the fact that CDRs can be programmed one time but not erased or reprogrammed thereafter. Check out http://www.Kodak.com/daiHome/techInfo/permanence.shtml for more than you wanted to know about CDRs and about the care and feeding of CDs and CDRs. Cheers -- Mark PS: 'The Coefficent of Aural Expansion 2' is just music. I haven't had time to do a comparison with 'CoAE' but I doubt they share any music. What do you think of 'CoEA'? Regards -- Mark tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: TheSmitter@a... > > A foolish question...I own CoAE (Part 1), but not Part 2. I've never > purchased a CDR before. Is it all music with some video, all music and video, > or I am I wrong on both guesses? Is the Part 2 music the same as Part 1's, > but with video, or completely different music? Can someone pull me out of the > dark ages as to what music CDRs are all about (I just bought a CDR player a > few weeks ago)? > > Thanks, > Larry Smith > > << > Tangerine Dream 'Coefficient of Aural Expansion' and 'Coefficient of > Aural Expansion Part 2'. Two CDs worth of the 75 Royal Albert Hall > concert. The first is a CD and the second is a CDR. >> From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 10:20 am Subject: Re: tadream-digest V15 #851 Really-From: Mark Filipak tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: ashok prema > > Mark Filipak wrote saying Ranjits 'Progtron' did not have copies of > Shreeves 'Red Shift'. > I suggest you try him again - they should be with him by now - or > in this week! > > Ash Hurah! From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 10:40 am Subject: Re: Recent acquisitions and some tips Really-From: feldon@n... At 10:53 PM 3/2/97 -0500, you wrote: >Really-From: TheSmitter@a... > >A foolish question...I own CoAE (Part 1), but not Part 2. I've never >purchased a CDR before. Is there video on it? A CD-R is the same as a CD-ROM or Audio CD. There is no difference with the way it's read. Either there's music tracks on it, Windows/Mac data, or both. A regular CD is made by using a mold which is *impressed* into blank plastic CDs. This process costs about $1 per CD but the master costs many thousands of $$ to make and make sub-masters from. A CD-R (short for CD-recordable) is green on the bottom for good reason, there is a layer of green dye under there. It is possible for a powerful laser to change the color of that dye from green to black, making it readable on either a computer or Audio CD player. So that's where the CD Recorder comes in. They cost about $600 and indeed contain a powerful laser. Keeping in mind that blank CD-Rs cost $10 each. And I don't mean the cheap ones, I only buy the gold ones. >(I just bought a CDR player a few weeks ago)? That's amazing since there's no such thing as a CDR player... Morgan feldon@n... P.S. Check out Kodak's CD-ROM care/technology page: http://www.Kodak.com/daiHome/techInfo/permanence.shtml From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 10:44 am Subject: Re: straw poll Really-From: feldon@n... At 01:17 AM 3/3/97 -0500, you wrote: >Really-From: AslanFan1@a... > > >I enjoy Jerome's drum work. He is far more interesting in his work than edgar >when it comes to percussion. Once again, I stand in the shadows singing 'I >LIKE THE NEW STUFF. Sorry, but I do. Sorry, guys, it's 4:45 in the morning, I'm not thinking straight. Ignore the 'P.S.' on my last message... Morgan feldon@n... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 10:42 am Subject: Re: straw poll Really-From: feldon@n... >At 01:17 AM 3/3/97 -0500, you wrote: >>Really-From: AslanFan1@a... >> >> >>I enjoy Jerome's drum work. He is far more interesting in his work than edgar >>when it comes to percussion. Once again, I stand in the shadows singing 'I >>LIKE THE NEW STUFF. Sorry, but I do. My first TD disc was Turn of the Tides. After that, I bought Phaedra. I have 80% of TD's releases and honestly don't like the new stuff as much as pre-1983 stuff. It's funny because I bought turn of the tides and then I heard Electronic Meditation. I was afraid that pre 1983 tangerine dream ALL sounded like that! Morgan feldon@n... P.S. You know you aren't sending this message to the list but to an individual person, right? From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 10:42 am Subject: Re: tadream-digest V15 #849 Really-From: John Wilson > > Really-From: dbrewer@a... > > I usually consider those drum parts as part of the repetative sequences, > only playing with percussive sounds, instead of musical notes. (I love > that Quichotte pt2!) ('Splut'?? :-) ) Sorry! I was stuck for any better word... Imagine a snare drum underwater or something...! John W. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 11:10 am Subject: d:list addendum: where are we? Really-From: 'Lars R. Jones' <105411.3107@c...> dreamers, last I remember, Vic had agreed to the 8? or 10? week d:list addendum (covering new and skipped works, comps with new material/remixes plus oasis and 3phase) to follow immediately on the end of the current d:list but was uncertain about my plan to cover the singles at a week per era wanting to get onto the solo artists first. (sorry but I don't have the revised list with me) further, it looks like the solo list has now been bumped back up to full-length--is that correct, Vic? (the few of you with that schroyder & hoenig, etc stuff are now obligated to do reviews for the rest of us!) since there has been essentially no disagreements/rejections of this plan to date, have we then decided to this 8-10 week plan to be followed by the solos? I have no objection to pushing our discussion of the singles back until after the solos. that just gives us more time to find them! So, if I have not misunderstood, here is where we are at: 1) we finish the current d:list 2) we go straight into the new, revised 8-10 week d:list, the addendum (of course, we may have to stick the video dream mixes on to the end of this list too) 3) we have a one or two-week catch up/grace/open period for all other compilations, all of us tardy post-ers & post-erettes, and for list newcomers to post anything they want but had missed (and for d:list deleters like steve F to post something! :-) 4) we do the solo artists alphabetically and for the major artists, we cover their works chronologically (I can't remember how long this was... maybe 30 weeks??) this much we have agreed to, I believe; the last remaining point, which we don't have to address today, is what to do about the singles. my last proposal was a 4-5 week d:single list done by chronologically by era. this could follow the d:solo list, I have no objection, and follow, perhaps, also a 4-5 week period in which we catch up on all those new releases |-)! (this emoticon wears oakley's!).... (d:addendum, #2). that would take us up to about this point next year where we could all either disband (in honor of REM [irony light flashes]) or start over again or let the new blood take over or ..... If this is correct and no one objects, can you post the revised dates Scott/Vic, at least up through the d:solo lists? thanks lars Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1391 Re: d:list addendum: where are we? Vic Rek Mon 3/3/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 11:10 am Subject: is Edgar the Butt -- of our jokes? Really-From: 'Lars R. Jones' <105411.3107@c...> (apologies to Rick & Grant!) [...] > The way I look at it is that if someone is an >ass, they may not be aware of it, but others around them sure >are. These people are seen by others as what they are. [...] > Anal is not always a bad thing. Many of us are >successful in life because of the fact that we are as such. >Some are more anal than others. So, ok, let's see here, it's bad to be an 'ass' but ok to be 'anal'? Just where do we get our metaphors from? (Only a little comic relief folks--sorry, but I couldn't resist :-) _.^~~~~~\ Grunt ! [, @ \______/ o /\ /\ o o 'I'm a back-door Man' -- Jim Morrison (If humor really is to be faster than truth, it MUST be done WITHOUT THINKING ABOUT IT!) ______________________________________________ OBLIGATORY TD CONTENT: Subject: Re: A Call to Arms Really-From: PNaunton@a... Gee Phil, I really like what you've said (_this_ time :-) I think it applies equally as well to TD as it does to Tadream, just change the context and the /indicated/ words in your quote below: >These /people [members]/ are gone, and I miss >them, to be frank/[e]/, I miss them alot, but this /list [band]/ is not any the worse off >for not having them. Others have taken their places, and those new members >have more fresh blood to contribute. Its wonderful! > The easiest thing in the world is to say, 'Yeah, I quit /TADREAM. [TD]/ >What a bunch of assholes those guys are.' > SOUR GRAPES!!! > If you want it different, make it what you want. You have the >power. Resignation never did crap to change the world. > I don't care what the foundations of this /list [group]/ are like, people >will STILL /unsubscribe [quit buying their albums]/ because they don't like it. [...] > For as many people who dump on this /list [band]/, there are ten who >indicate that it is the best /list [band]/ around. I agree. I'm biased, too. The >other /ones[bands]/ I've looked in on, some for many months, are shallow and >scattered, stupid and sad. This /list[band]/ is always active, always thoughtful, >always interesting, and this /thread [musical period]/ is no different. Gee, maybe we ta-dreamers really do reflect the essence of band in some small way. Now isn't that a concept to mull over? cheers the list-heretic PS: if parts of this message seem intentionally indecorus: duhhhhhh! Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1420 Re: is Edgar the Butt -- of our jokes? Rich Maggio Tue 3/4/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 11:10 am Subject: ubercollection, tapes & boots Really-From: 'Lars R. Jones' <105411.3107@c...> medium length post with lots of TD content! dreamers: OK, maybe this subject heading is a little misleading. I have two related questions that I will roll into one long post; they stem primarily from Steve & Hermes' (what a juxtaposition! :-) saturday digest posts. question #1: Steve mentioned a private sampler tape he puts together. What do people put on personal TD tape compilations they use to turn their friends on to TD? Does anyone have a standard collection/s of material they use? I know this thread came up once about six months ago and a few people even posted some track listings. Long ago I used to make these comp-demo tapes to turn people/friends on too; these tapes usually ended up being a sort of my own version of the 'best of td' (I wish I had one now!). Sometimes it worked but sometimes these people never bothered to go out and buy anything else, they were satisfied to listen to the tape (talk about people NOT into music!) Lately, if someone I care about expresses an interest in TD, I usually just give them TD cd I think they will or do like and hope they will explore on their own. Once or twice I even gave someone an annotated discography pointing out which albums they might like and why or why not. What do people put on them? Don't just post back and say 'well, it depends', of course it does! I would really like to know what people put on these tapes. (OK, mark, there's an activity-generating request for you; but let's not get into a power-relationship theory discussion since we've all probably had enough of that by now). Please list the tracks you use (and maybe what you use for different 'types' of people). Are these tapes your version of TD's greatest hits or ...? Do you 'tangentize' them (well, chopping up longer pieces and mixing them around is as close to 'tangentizing' as most of us can come). Post some track listings please. (parameters: two 120min tapes max) question #2 re: steve's ubercollection (and herme's post): (Ich verstehe dass 'uber' keine Rechtsbeschreibung ist . Aber ich kann nicht den Umlaut mit 'Eudora' machen. [Manchmal, bin ich faul!] Wenn ich schreibe so 'ueber' richtig, jemand sagt so: it is 'u:ber' [mit dem Umlaut]!' Also, ich kann nicht so gut auf Deutsche schreiben--entschuldigung :-) OK, I'm ignorant. Can someone please tell me how this licensing bit works? When an artist has a contract with a record company, do they also give up all rights to music produced while under contract? Does TD still get royalties from every track they've ever done? Or once someone owns the rights, do they no longer need to pay royalties?? If someone else licenses something, do they have to pay royalties to the label and TD? How much are royalties and how much does it cost to license the rights to a track for a compilation? Can anyone give me an idea (clearly it depends partly on potential sales and current popularity). What, for example, would it cost to rent LOART? or Cloudburst flight, or ...? How does one go about finding this stuff out? Clearly TD's permission must be gained (it says as much on their web page faqs) I've been thinking about this ever since I picked up that untitled comp (or titled simply 'TD') that has all of phaedra, plus rubycon part II (?) and stratosfear (the track) on one cd that was released the day DRC came out. Unless this was a pirate release that infiltrated virgin, hmv and tower in the UK and the US, it must be the work of some little? independent? company in Holland (address given on insert) who had obviously leased the rights to these tunes and put out this small collection. The thing is, this isn't like the typical record company compilation with a diverse range of stuff. This sounded like someone's own personal comp tape that they turned into a cd just because they liked the stuff; it was as if they were saying: 'hey, this is MY favorite td.' In fact, I think this is the only? TD comp not produced by a 'greedy' (former) record label. I took this as an inspiration; when Steve told me about his ubercollection idea in December, I put this idea to him (and to Dave B as well): what if a fan or group of fans leased the rights to some TD stuff and put out their [sub-text: 'our'] own _legal/legitimate_ 'best of' collection: a 2cd set with a small release, probably no more than 5,000 copies and selling for about $20. Could they get them distributed? Or could they at least be distributed through the various specialty mail order and web houses? I mean we all talk about putting our fav stuff together on CDR or on tape (which is of course cheaper) or buying boots/pirates that have collections on them (MT1 & 2, 70/90, etc). We even talk of making an 'ubercollection' that might transcend personal and record-label boundaries to try to capture the essence of the band and include some rarities. Some of us even 'talk' here about making boots/pirates--but that is getting a little onto the darker side of the law and most of us would rather not admit to this in public; the point is that the thought has probably crossed all of our minds but the logistics of getting it done and distributed without getting busted are enough to keep most of us from turning this fantasy into reality (not to mention some 'loyalty' to the band itself). Since I, for one, would _never_ (can you believe I almost sent this without putting the ''n' in 'never'?! :-) want to get involved with boots/pirates... what if 'we' put together a legit release like this dutch thing? (Does anyone know the story behind this release??) (attention 'list lurkers': your private or public replies are welcome too!) Of course, we'd have to have some $$ to start, but I imagine that paying higher royalties on sales could cut the initial investment some??? We would also have to do this under the auspices of some 'corporation' formed for this purpose or some 'fan club' in which case it could be done on a not-for-profit basis with the sales using to repay the initial investment and IF anything was left over, it could always be donated to a good cause... I'm mean we could do this more for the fun of it and, to take part of steve's point, to put out a really good collection of stuff that the record labels are unlikely to do... And even though I don't have any money, I don't feel the personal need to do this as a for-profit thing, just to do it for the experience... Do I just have a wild hare/hair up my ass? Is this even remotely possible to do? If so, what would it cost (speculation is welcome)? what are the potential pitfalls and difficulties? How would one begin? Beyond that, if we were doing it legitmately, and especially as a not-for-profit fan-type thing, I think we'd be justified in approaching Edgar about the possibility of including some never-before released track on it (like from The Vault--hey, now, would _that_ be an interesting title?) which would make it all the more marketable... (of course the chances of that happening are pretty small, I'd imagine!). Talk to me baby! lars From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 6:36 pm Subject: Ubercollection Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' I have a few comments/questions relating to Lars' post about a possible legitimate release of a compilation CD. A lot of these will sound negative but that is not the intention. I'm sure thre are a lot of level-headed people of the list and this is really for those who might get swept up in this (very good) idea. 1) Do we really think we could organise this? We started trying to design a T-Shirt for goodness sakes - we got as far as a few designs and then wham! it all dried up. And it's not James Williams' 'fault' for being off-line for a while. We all (or a lot of us) just seemed to let the idea die. If we can't even make a T-Shirt, how are we going to make a CD? Of course, I'll counter that argument myself by stating that we have produced a tape (well, I say 'we' but you know what I mean). Maybe if we feel passionate enough about something, and a driving force with enough time and energy to dedicate to the task, it could be done. 2) Track selection - Is this CD going to be a List thing, an individual thing or a sub-set from the list. As soon as there are more than two or three people involved, there's going to be some discussion of the tracks. 3) Size - Would a 2CD set be enough? If there are lots of rare stuff we'd like on these CDs, isn't it going to cover a lot of time? It could end-up being one of those life-time compilations which is so mixed up and 'unstructured' that as an album in its own right it sucks. 4) Boots - Are all boots produced by money-grabbing exploiters? Aren't some produced by fans who want to make the music available for other fans? (That'san honest question, BTW). If the latter, then why are there so many boots, and so few 'fan compilations'? As I said, this sounds very negative and it's not really meant to be. These things perhaps need to be considered if anyone is serious about giving this a go. --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi S3I Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) E-mail : cordrey@m... cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1396 Re: Ubercollection Plumer, Scott Mon 3/3/1997 4 KB 1398 Re: Ubercollection Steven Feldman Mon 3/3/1997 2 KB 1516 Ubercollection Klaus Beschorner Thu 3/6/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 1:36 pm Subject: Re: d:list addendum: where are we? Really-From: Vic Rek >So, if I have not misunderstood, here is where we are at: >1) we finish the current d:list >2) we go straight into the new, revised 8-10 week d:list, the addendum > (of course, we may have to stick the video dream mixes on to the end of >this list too) >3) we have a one or two-week catch up/grace/open period for all other >compilations, all of us tardy post-ers & post-erettes, and for list >newcomers to post anything they want but had missed (and for d:list >deleters like steve F to post something! :-) >4) we do the solo artists alphabetically and for the major artists, we >cover their works chronologically (I can't remember how long this was... >maybe 30 weeks??) Sounds fine with me. I again am willing to head the d:solo discussion, but it looks like Lars for the d:addendum??? > >If this is correct and no one objects, can you post the revised dates >Scott/Vic, at least up through the d:solo lists? I'm not sure what you mean by dates? Do you mean the item review order up to the D:addendum and then on to D:solo? I think that would mean is what's left by Scott and the addendum by you (Lars). Right? Vic From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 2:22 pm Subject: Re: Most popular name in e-music Really-From: TWeibre361@a... In a message dated 97-02-28 06:08:26 EST, you write: << Whilst it is easy to say that TD are probably the biggest > name in e-music (although now having said that some are > sure to disagree) >> just got back from germany, gang, and their tour is being promoted thusly: Tangerine Dream - The Worlds Greatest Synthesizer Band - very little hype other than that.... tom w np: labradford - prazision From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: Re: The Logos encores Really-From: John Burek <72241.2313@C...> >>Message text written by tadream mailing list > >>Really-From: feldon@n... >>Could someone privately respond (or publicly if ye should wish) as to what >>the names of the Encores are during the Logos concert? I know the third one >>was new and called 'Dominion'. >>Morgan >>feldon@n... Encores for the London 06.11.82 'Logos' concert (as well as the other shows on the 1982/Logos tour) were three: 1) Midnight in Tula 2) White Eagle 3) Dominion not, depending on the show. --John Burek From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 3:43 pm Subject: Mychael Danna (was Canadian Music) Really-From: Brian_Kirby@p... >Really-From: sean >I can't think of any Canadian artists working in the TD vein either. >There's Michael Danna, who scores quite a few movies, but he's more >ambient (sort of like Michael Stearns). If I can interject here for a second... For those of you who are heavy into the environmental/ambient thingee, I would highly recommend Mychael Danna and Tim Clement's 'North of Niagara,' a lovely piece of work composed about Canada's Bruce Trail. It made my top 10 for 1995 (above TD's Tyranny of Beauty, which, uh, didn't place). And if you close your eyes, you might even think you're hearing TD! Okay, if you toss back a couple brewskis at the Leafs game and then listen, you might think it's TD. Your favorite ugly American, B. Kirby From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 4:20 pm Subject: Re: Canadian Music Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' >Well that depends, do you consider Alanis, Bryan Adams, Barenaked Ladies, >Celine Dion, or The Tragically Hip to be any better adjusted? Don't forget Neil Young. Scott Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1409 Re: Canadian Music Gabe Yedid Mon 3/3/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 4:54 pm Subject: RE: Ubercollection Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' >1) Do we really think we could organise this? We started >trying to design a T-Shirt for goodness sakes - we got as >far as a few designs and then wham! it all dried up. And >it's not James Williams' 'fault' for being off-line for >a while. We all (or a lot of us) just seemed to let the >idea die. If we can't even make a T-Shirt, how are we going >to make a CD? One of the reasons the shirt idea petered out was that everyone had an idea for a shirt, but no one wanted to contribute their ideas. I think there were 5 ideas that actually made it to Jim's site. The other problem is that it's hard to get so many people to agree on a design. The Pink Floyd list a few years ago wanted to do a shirt, and so many people had ideas, and it seemed like the ideas that were the most garish were the ones that got the most exposure. The result was a shirt so ugly and adolescent that I would use it to check my oil, let alone wear. I think what it's going to take to get a shirt made is Jim & I choosing a design, then making the shirts available to the list and not muck about with democracy. >4) Boots - Are all boots produced by money-grabbing >exploiters? Aren't some produced by fans who want to make >the music available for other fans? (That'san honest >question, BTW). If the latter, then why are there so many >boots, and so few 'fan compilations'? Yes, usually they're produced solely for the money. Boots on vinyl were produced primarily in the US, and had a cadre of artists and fans who got together to produce something to provide live material for the fans. They had nice artwork and real attention to detail. A true labor of love, especially since the unit cost for LP's was much higher. CD boots are produced primarily by a few companies in Europe and Asia (Great Dane Records in Italy was one of the biggest) who appear to be in it only for the money: covert art is often photos copied from books or press releases or some godawful mess from someone's PC, the information on the discs is often wrong (like dates, song titles, spelling, etc.). The reason is believe there are so few compilations is that boots don't directly take money away from record companies. Fan comps would compete with record companies' products, and would probably be BETTER, thus selling more, thus raising the ire of said companies, which are mostly a bunch of money-grubbing turds anyway. Scott From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 5:01 pm Subject: RE: Encores during Logos concert Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' >Could someone privately respond (or publicly if ye should wish) as to what >the names of the Encores are during the Logos concert? I know the third one >was new and called 'Dominion'. If memory serves, they were: 'Convention of the 24,' White Eagle' and 'Dominion.' From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: RE: Ubercollection Really-From: Steven Feldman >Subject: RE: Ubercollection >From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) >Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 11:54:00 -0500 > >Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' > > >The reason is believe there are so few compilations is that boots don't >directly take money away from record companies. Fan comps would compete >with record companies' products, and would probably be BETTER, thus >selling more, thus raising the ire of said companies, which are mostly a >bunch of money-grubbing turds anyway. Hey and, you know, I was all done with those TANGENTS 'n' Proposed MIRAMAR 3-CD Set threads, and now *this* comment comes along. ;) :) -- Steven Feldman and From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 7:27 pm Subject: Check this out guys! DRC U.S. Release Really-From: feldon@n... Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 09:40:00 -0500 From: Shea Stone Subject: RE: To: feldon >>>In a recent e-mail to Jeff Kortsch , you stated: >>> >>>Thank you for your interest in the Dream Roots Collection. >>>As mentioned in Goldmine and other magazines, the collection >>>IS in fact going to be released in the US in the summer. >> >>You ARE aware that Dream Roots Collection has been available in the US for >>over 2 months from RPM Records located in Texas, aren't you? >> >as an import? To which I responded: Yes, I believe so. It says 'Made in England' so I would assume... If I were you, I would buy a gross or a palette of them from somebody because RPM Records is selling them by the armload and has been since January! (and not for an outlandish price either, RPM is probably undercutting folks by selling DRC for $55) http://www.rpmrecords.com/ Morgan Terramorph Productions feldon@n... http://www.neosoft.com/~feldon/terramorph/ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1402 Re: Check this out guys! DRC U.S. Release Carlos A. Martinez Mon 3/3/1997 2 KB 1405 Re: Check this out guys! DRC U.S. Release Vincent Goudreault Mon 3/3/1997 3 KB 1411 Re: Check this out guys! DRC U.S. Release Vincent Goudreault Mon 3/3/1997 3 KB 1421 Re: Check this out guys! DRC U.S. Release Carlos A. Martinez Tue 3/4/1997 3 KB 1424 Check this out guys! DRC U.S. Release feldon@n... Tue 3/4/1997 2 KB 1432 Re: Check this out guys! DRC U.S. Release Mark Filipak Tue 3/4/1997 3 KB 1440 Re: Check this out guys! DRC U.S. Release Vincent Goudreault Tue 3/4/1997 3 KB 1441 Re: Check this out guys! DRC U.S. Release Vincent Goudreault Tue 3/4/1997 3 KB 1476 Re: Check this out guys! DRC U.S. Release Mark Filipak Wed 3/5/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 7:37 pm Subject: Tangerine Ambience Really-From: feldon@n... I mentioned this CD on the list before 'Tangerine Ambience' a tribute to Tangerine Dream and got a couple responses, mostly that they had either never heard of it or that they had heard from someone who heard from someone that it was bad. I would give it a 3AS+. It's really interesting to here someone ELSE tangentize TD's best stuff and their version of Bent Cold Sidewalk is MUCH better than TDs IMVHO. They did Phaedra, Invisible Lights, Force Majeure, Mojave Plan, Exit, Dolphin Dance, and Bent Cold Sidewalk all from scratch. Plus they put on a Conrad Schnitzler track (Solar Cells) and a Steve Schroyder track (Horizon). Morgan feldon@n... P.S. It's on Hypnotic records, released April 1996. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1401 Re: Tangerine Ambience Carlos A. Martinez Mon 3/3/1997 3 KB 1410 Re: Tangerine Ambience TWeibre361@a... Mon 3/3/1997 2 KB 1413 Re: Tangerine Ambience sean Tue 3/4/1997 3 KB 15618 Tangerine Ambience Marcelo Gutierrez Tue 4/13/1999 2 KB 15619 Re: Tangerine Ambience James Horecka, AIA Tue 4/13/1999 1 KB 16976 Tangerine Ambience Kevin Earley Thu 6/24/1999 2 KB 16985 Re: Tangerine Ambience Gabe Yedid Fri 6/25/1999 3 KB 16996 Re: Tangerine Ambience Kevin Earley Fri 6/25/1999 2 KB 16997 Re: Tangerine Ambience Sean Montgomery Fri 6/25/1999 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 8:30 pm Subject: Re: Tangerine Ambience Really-From: 'Carlos A. Martinez' >Really-From: feldon@n... > > >I mentioned this CD on the list before 'Tangerine Ambience' a tribute to >Tangerine Dream and got a couple responses, mostly that they had either >never heard of it or that they had heard from someone who heard from someone >that it was bad. > >I would give it a 3AS+. It's really interesting to here someone ELSE >tangentize TD's best stuff and their version of Bent Cold Sidewalk is MUCH >better than TDs IMVHO. They did Phaedra, Invisible Lights, Force Majeure, >Mojave Plan, Exit, Dolphin Dance, and Bent Cold Sidewalk all from scratch. >Plus they put on a Conrad Schnitzler track (Solar Cells) and a Steve >Schroyder track (Horizon). > >Morgan >feldon@n... > >P.S. It's on Hypnotic records, released April 1996. How good are the bonus tracks? (The tow Sch ones). BTW, along a year, I've seen here totally mixed emotions about this release. Hasta la vista! Carlos Alberto Martinez Monterrey, Mexico work.......... cmartine@e... home.......... carmarti@i... oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 8:33 pm Subject: Re: Check this out guys! DRC U.S. Release Really-From: 'Carlos A. Martinez' >Really-From: feldon@n... [about Dream Roots Collection] >Yes, I believe so. It says 'Made in England' so I would assume... If I were >you, I would buy a gross or a palette of them from somebody because RPM >Records is selling them by the armload and has been since January! (and not >for an outlandish price either, RPM is probably undercutting folks by >selling DRC for $55) > >http://www.rpmrecords.com/ > I've got mine from CDUniverse under 45 dollars (sh & hd. incld), even tought it's an import title, you know. Hasta la vista! Carlos Alberto Martinez Monterrey, Mexico work.......... cmartine@e... home.......... carmarti@i... oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 9:09 pm Subject: Re: Canadian Music Really-From: TWeibre361@a... In a message dated 97-03-02 16:13:17 EST, you write: << There are indeed good Canadian artists out there yup...the greatest: NASH THE SLASH.... tom w np: st. etienne - casino classics From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 9:04 pm Subject: Re: Canadian Music Really-From: TWeibre361@a... In a message dated 97-03-02 16:13:17 EST, you write: << There are indeed good Canadian artists out there yup...the greatest: NASH THE SLASH.... tom w np: st. etienne - casino classics From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 8:52 pm Subject: Re: Check this out guys! DRC U.S. Release Really-From: 'Vincent Goudreault' On Mar 3, 1:27pm, tadream mailing list wrote: > Subject: Check this out guys! DRC U.S. Release > Really-From: feldon@n... > > (...) > > To which I responded: > > Yes, I believe so. It says 'Made in England' so I would assume... If I were > you, I would buy a gross or a palette of them from somebody because RPM > Records is selling them by the armload and has been since January! (and not > for an outlandish price either, RPM is probably undercutting folks by > selling DRC for $55) > > http://www.rpmrecords.com/ > > Morgan > Terramorph Productions > Do you have an e-mail addrtess to contact those fine people? Our computer system here disallows access to the web. Regards C.B. Vincent Goudreault online since early 93, TD fan since 77 first exposure: Stratosfear, fave albums: Rubycon/Ricochet From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 9:12 pm Subject: Re: Canadian Music Really-From: TWeibre361@a... In a message dated 97-03-02 16:39:11 EST, you write: << all underpinned with his amazing guitar playing (often with his invention, the 'infinite guitar'...a copy of which U2s The Edge employs). >> oooops....forgot daniel lanois.... tom w np: art of noise - drum and bass collection Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1414 Re: Canadian Music Steve Quinney Tue 3/4/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 9:25 pm Subject: Virgin logo Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' Does know where on the 'net I might find a copy of the original Virgin logo? I mean the one with the two girls back-to-back. I need to use it in a document, and I was hoping I could find an electronic copy of it. I've tried Virgin's web sites. Scott Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1435 Re: Virgin logo Mark Filipak Tue 3/4/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: Review of RED NIGHTS in THE PSYCHOTRONIC VIDEO GUIDE Really-From: Steven Feldman THE PSYCHOTRONIC VIDEO GUIDE, by Michael J. Weldon St. Martin's Griffin, 1996, has this on page 456: RED NIGHTS (TWE, 1988) D: IZHAK HANOOKA Christopher Parker star [sic] as an East Coast kid who goes to Hollywood to try and make it. With William Smith and Jack Carter. The score is by the German synth group Tangerine Dream who did music for many increasingly cheap and obscure movies. Note: This video guide has over 30,000 entries and is devoted mostly to cult-type flicks. There are entries for many TD-scored films, such as WAVELENGTH, FLASHPOINT, FIRESTARTER, LEGEND, THE KEEP, and NERA DARK, but the above is the only nasty review. THE KEEP review referred to the soundtrack as being 'dreary'! -- Steven Feldman and Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1443 Re: Review of RED NIGHTS in THE PSYCHOTRONIC VIDE Harri Ikonen Tue 3/4/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 9:43 pm Subject: Re: Canadian Music Really-From: Gabe Yedid On Mon, 3 Mar 1997, tadream mailing list wrote: > Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' > > > > >Well that depends, do you consider Alanis, Bryan Adams, Barenaked Ladies, > >Celine Dion, or The Tragically Hip to be any better adjusted? > > Don't forget Neil Young. Neil Young seems to consider it more important to promote himself as a 'citizen of the world' than to say 'I'm proud to be a citizen of the best country on Earth' ;) > Scott > Gabe From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 10:20 pm Subject: Re: Tangerine Ambience Really-From: TWeibre361@a... In a message dated 97-03-03 14:48:39 EST, you write: << mostly that they had either never heard of it or that they had heard from someone who heard from someone that it was bad. >> no, i remember this original post, and i categorically, unequivocally said it was crap...plain and simple...and i have it, regretably so...i actually spent money on it...besides the extremely crummy production and sonic quality of this cd, the performance are amateurish at best, pathetic at worst...it is imitation at its most base...this is no flattery...if i were td, id be embarrased by this...even the schnitzler/schroyder tracks are throw-aways...save ur money folks.... tom w np: art of noise - drum and bass collection Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1413 Re: Tangerine Ambience sean Tue 3/4/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 3, 1997 10:46 pm Subject: Re: Check this out guys! DRC U.S. Release Really-From: 'Vincent Goudreault' On Mar 3, 2:33pm, tadream mailing list wrote: > Subject: Re: Check this out guys! DRC U.S. Release > Really-From: 'Carlos A. Martinez' > > > >Really-From: feldon@n... > > [about Dream Roots Collection] > > >Yes, I believe so. It says 'Made in England' so I would assume... If I were > >you, I would buy a gross or a palette of them from somebody because RPM > >Records is selling them by the armload and has been since January! (and not > >for an outlandish price either, RPM is probably undercutting folks by > >selling DRC for $55) > > > >http://www.rpmrecords.com/ > > > > > I've got mine from CDUniverse under 45 dollars (sh & hd. incld), even > tought it's an import title, you know. > E-mail address, please! (have pity on us deprived of web access!) C.B. Vincent Goudreault online since early 93, TD fan since 77 first exposure: Stratosfear, fave albums: Rubycon/Ricochet Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1421 Re: Check this out guys! DRC U.S. Release Carlos A. Martinez Tue 3/4/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 4, 1997 1:47 am Subject: Jimbo's UberCollection Really-From: Jim Moore Since I've recently obtained access to a CDR Recorder, I've used it to create my own 'rarities' album -- simply so I only have to handle 2 CDs instead of a dozen CD's and albums. Here's my track listing: Disc 1: 1) Roaring of the Bliss 2) A Time for Heroes (Short Version) 3) Vigor 4) Guitar Solo (from 1988) 5) Alexander Square (extended mix) 6) One Night in Medina 7) I Just Want to Live My Life Without You 8) Oriental Haze 9) Beaver Town 10) Mishiko 11) Dreamtime (vocal version) 12) Story of the Brave 13) Timesteps (Chris Franke) 14) Quasar Disc 2: 1) Streethawk (single remix) 2) Katja 3) Speed 4) Warsaw in the Sun (pts. 1&2) 5) Quinoa 6) Tyger ('92 remix) 7) Purple Haze (single edit) If you're asking where all the other rarities and singles are, I either have them in other comps (70/90, etc.) or I don't have them at all (_Lost Story_, for example). 'I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.' -- Jack Handy Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1473 Re: Jimbo's UberCollection Mark Filipak Wed 3/5/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 4, 1997 12:20 am Subject: Re: Tangerine Ambience Really-From: sean > no, i remember this original post, and i categorically, unequivocally said it > was crap I'd say: mostly crap. I actually don't mind the versions of Invisible Limits (mistitled as Invisible Lights) and Phaedra, but I can do without the rest. But these two are quite similar to the originals, and are from an era when the TD sound was more ambient-friendly. The songs that try to be a bit different just plain suck. Recasting Dolphin Dance as a piece of 'ambient' music is particularly ridiculous. And the Force Majeure cover *really* makes me wince. It's like a Tomita version of Bach. I didn't care for the schnitzler/schroyder tracks at all. Thus, I wouldn't suggest putting this one at the top of your 'must buy' list. But the completists will buy it anyway, of course! Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR http://www.topix.com/~sean 'I used to be indecisive, but now I just don't know' From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 4, 1997 12:59 am Subject: Re: Canadian Music Really-From: Steve Quinney At 04:12 PM 3/3/97 -0500, you wrote: >Really-From: TWeibre361@a... > > >In a message dated 97-03-02 16:39:11 EST, you write: > ><< all underpinned with his amazing guitar playing (often with his > invention, the 'infinite guitar'...a copy of which U2s The Edge employs). > > >> >oooops....forgot daniel lanois.... > >tom w > >np: art of noise - drum and bass collection > > > I really used to love SAGA , a lot of people actually thought they were from Germany Steve From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 4, 1997 12:59 am Subject: off for a while Really-From: Gabe Yedid I find myself increasingly unable to participate more fully in the list discussions because of my workload at school, so I'm afraid I must take a leave of absence for the next little (I hope) while. I'll still get the digests for hot news, but won't participate. If you should by chance feel you want to chat, flame, send death threats (take a #, please ;) ), or whatever, I may be reached at: gabe@c... gyedid@p... bleo@m... hope to be back in a month, Gabe From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 4, 1997 1:15 am Subject: RE: RE:Dream Roots Collection Really-From: feldon@n... >Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 15:25:00 -0500 >From: Shea Stone >Subject: RE: RE: >To: feldon > > >I understand the consequences of not releasing in tandem with the UK release >date, and thank you for bringing that to my attention. But as it stands >right now, we're not due to release the box set domestically until this >summer. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1562 Dream Roots Collection Ceb Blankenship, Jr. Sat 3/8/1997 3 KB 1565 Re: Dream Roots Collection feldon@n... Sat 3/8/1997 3 KB 1575 Re: Dream Roots Collection dbrewer@a... Sat 3/8/1997 4 KB 1645 Re: Dream Roots Collection Craig R. J. Cordrey Mon 3/10/1997 4 KB 1882 Re: Dream Roots Collection =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ingo_P=FCschma Sat 3/15/1997 4 KB 6248 Dream Roots Collection Michael A Jean Sun 8/3/1997 3 KB 21972 Dream Roots Collection Brian M. Frick Sat 4/15/2000 2 KB 21973 Re: Dream Roots Collection Rainer Rutka Sat 4/15/2000 3 KB 21974 Re: Dream Roots Collection Andrew Rozsa Sat 4/15/2000 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 4, 1997 1:27 am Subject: Fripp does Tangentize--proven Really-From: ' teiwaz barana' TDreamers sorry if I go off, but here goes. Robert Fripp does Tangentize--just look at the first King Crimson Box set--I mean come on now--Adrian Belew vocals on Cadence & Cascade? A. Belew was in the late 70's early 80's Crimson and not before that--yet his vocals appear on this track from 1970 was it? Ok, so maybe R. Fripp uses a tad more restraint when tangentizing--read fewer modified tracks with less obvious changes, but he's adding new stuff nonetheless. ObTD Would removing Jon Anderson's vocal from the Legend soundtrack be Tangentizing? or as Edgar intended--a welcome relief. ;-) Discuss. --teiwaz --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1427 Re: Fripp does Tangentize--proven TWeibre361@a... Tue 3/4/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 4, 1997 1:23 am Subject: Dream Roots Collection worldwide availability Really-From: feldon@n... At 03:52 PM 3/3/97 -0500, you wrote: >Really-From: 'Vincent Goudreault' > >On Mar 3, 1:27pm, tadream mailing list wrote: >> Subject: Check this out guys! DRC U.S. Release >> Really-From: feldon@n... >> http://www.rpmrecords.com/ >> > >Do you have an e-mail addrtess to contact those fine people? Our computer >system here disallows access to the web. **TO QUOTE THEIR WEBPAGE FOR YOU** When you find the item or items you want phone us toll free at 1-888-2 RPM REC if you are in the United States. If you are calling from outside the United States call us at 972-681-8441. We will need your charge card number, expiration date, and shipping address. The order will be processed the same day and sent out via UPS Ground (unless other arrangements are made). It's that easy! We do accept checks. If you want to reserve an item email sales@r... and reserve it! We will hold the item until we receive the check or money order and then process the order. If you want to call 972-681-8441 feel free to do so. We accept the following charge cards: MasterCard, Visa, Discover, and American Express. We do want to make you happy. If recieve any merchandise that is defective we will accept it in return for exhange for the same item or a similar item that is in stock. Sorry, we cannot give cash refunds. Shipping rates are as follows: First item is $2.50 and each additional item is $.50 each thereafter. Any order over $100 is freight free! Sorry we cannot ship UPS to a P.O. Box. Overseas and foreign orders are welcome. Shipping is actual cost. Most countries outside of the U.S. are $3 or first cd and $1 each cd thereafter. Pacific Rim countries are higher. Canada is the same as the U.S. Laser discs overseas are $5.50- $6 per disc. Double discs count as 2 etc. ------------ Morgan Marks feldon@n... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 4, 1997 1:24 am Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Dream Roots Collection] Really-From: Rich Maggio Well, I guess I have jumped the gun on buying it as an import. I suspect MANY others have done so as well. At CD Connection, the price (including shipping) cost me LESS than buying Tangents at my local CD shop. This US release may turn out to be too little too late. And if it does turn out that way, I say it serves them right for not releasing it in the US to begin with. Rich Maggio +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: Jeff Kortsch > > This may interest U.S. members of the list: > > Subject: > RE: Dream Roots Collection > Date: > Sun, 23 Feb 97 17:38:00 +0000 > From: > Shea Stone > To: > Jeff Kortsch > > Thank you for your interest in the Dream Roots Collection. As mentioned > in > Goldmine and other magazines, the collection IS in fact going to be > released > in the US in the summer. But only because we're driven by dollar signs > :) > > ---------- > From: Jeff Kortsch > To: email > Subject: Dream Roots Collection > Date: Sunday, February 23, 1997 12:33PM > > Why have you stiffed Tangerine Dream's US fans by not releasing the > Dream Roots collection in the US? > > Oh, I will get it but I will have to pay the cost of shipping and have > to wait 2 to 4 weeks to get it because it is not an US release. > > Do only dollar signs drive what you do?? > > Maybe Edgar and Jerome chose unwisely.... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 4, 1997 1:33 am Subject: Re: is Edgar the Butt -- of our jokes? Really-From: Rich Maggio It's funny that you bring this point up because it jumped out at me as I was re-reading my post. I thought about pointing it out and bringing attention to it as some 'comic relief', but I guess it came out on its own! :-) It wasn't intentional to have a string of references to that particular area of the anatomy. It worked out well because I think that thread was in need of some comic relief. Rich Maggio +++++++++++++++++++ > [...] > > The way I look at it is that if someone is an > >ass, they may not be aware of it, but others around them sure > >are. These people are seen by others as what they are. > [...] > > Anal is not always a bad thing. Many of us are > >successful in life because of the fact that we are as such. > >Some are more anal than others. > > So, ok, let's see here, it's bad to be an 'ass' but ok to be 'anal'? > Just where do we get our metaphors from? > (Only a little comic relief folks--sorry, but I couldn't resist :-) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 4, 1997 1:58 am Subject: Re: Check this out guys! DRC U.S. Release Really-From: 'Carlos A. Martinez' >Really-From: 'Vincent Goudreault' > > >On Mar 3, 2:33pm, tadream mailing list wrote: >> Subject: Re: Check this out guys! DRC U.S. Release >> Really-From: 'Carlos A. Martinez' >> >> >> >Really-From: feldon@n... >> >> [about Dream Roots Collection] >> >> >Yes, I believe so. It says 'Made in England' so I would assume... If I were >> >you, I would buy a gross or a palette of them from somebody because RPM >> >Records is selling them by the armload and has been since January! (and not >> >for an outlandish price either, RPM is probably undercutting folks by >> >selling DRC for $55) >> > >> >http://www.rpmrecords.com/ >> > >> >> >> I've got mine from CDUniverse under 45 dollars (sh & hd. incld), even >> tought it's an import title, you know. >> > >E-mail address, please! > >(have pity on us deprived of web access!) Hello, folks! CDUniverse: http://www.cduniverse.com To the lobby directly: http://www.cduniverse.com/cgi-bin/cdubin.exe/lobby/ But even more, to Dream Roots directly: http://www.cduniverse.com/cgi-bin/cdubin.exe/albuminfo/LC=89200+420/cart=1419423 9/ They've got two offers, both around 40-42 dollars, plus sh & hnd. They accept credit card and got secure purchase mode. They do a terrific job, by the way. (They have sent me recent release of PFM's 'Miss Baker' (1984). Hasta la vista! Carlos Alberto Martinez Monterrey, Mexico work.......... cmartine@e... home.......... carmarti@i... oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 4, 1997 3:38 am Subject: Phaedra US CD Releases Really-From: Vic Rek !Those not interested in questions or answers (press delete)! I was just curious to persue the various releases of Phaedra on CD in the US. Can anybody else fill in the gaps? I'm trying to find out the proper release order too. So check your CD and see if you have something different. 'Voices in the Dunes' lists the first US release as: 1. Phaedra - Virgin Records America 7-90933-2, Beverly Hills California, 1988 I have never seen the one above, but I have: 2. Phaedra - Virgin Mfg. for BMG under license 100510D SEL #7 90933-2, date?, Black print on silver disc with tracks listed on disc. Same insert as European release CDV 2010 and date says 1985 on insert 3. Phaedra - Virgin Records America V2-86064 (07777 86064 2 0), Mfg. by Capitol Records Hollywood California, inside of insert is different and back insert states a date of 1985. Black print on silver disc with NO tracks listed. That's it! Vic P.S. To be fair, foreign CD releases can also be included. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 4, 1997 6:37 pm Subject: D : Underwater Sunlight Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' *** Standard Disclaimer Applies : All My Own Opinion *** No posts about this yet? (Have I got the right week?) Okay, I'll start the ball rolling. OBLIGATORY BACKGROUND STORY : I think this was the first TD album I bought as soon as it was released. Although having been a fan for 5 years or so to that point (up to 1986), I had been catching up with the older stuff and not really paid much attention to 'new' releases. I had read an interview with Edgar about the new album, Johannes leaving and Paul joining, and decided to give it a go. Well, as you'll see from the review later, I really liked it. But when I started to move to CDs, I could never find it anywhere. It was 1990 before I found a Relativity import in HMV in Sheffield. It cost me stlg23 and to this day that is still the most I've ever paid for any piece of music (Sonambulistic Imagery cost arounf stlg20 in 1993). But I can honestly say it was well worth the money. I still don't see U.S. around much. Has Castle re-issued it? Is it any better than the Relativity release? Anyway, down to the nitty-gritty. Song of the Whale (Part One) (5AS) - The only parts of this beautiful piece of music I don't love are 1) the first 10 seconds or so - I find the section a bit startling, particularly since the remainder of the track is so smooth. 2) the false crescendo about 4-45 into the track. But the intro then falls into the background, engulfed by the layers of beautiful sounds and effects which make this the second best track on the album, and probably in my top five favourite tracks of all time. And the crescendo is perhaps a signal that the harder edge to the song is about to start, with excellent guitar. Song of the Whale (Part Two) (5AS) - Well. What can you say about this track? The most beautiful piece of music ever written. My all-time favourite track by any artist I have ever heard. From the piano intro, through the very slow build-up of synths and percussion with piano disappearing, to the spine-tinglingly, back-shiveringly good synth lead from 4-40 onwards. That tune, along with the deep bass drum and tinkling in the ears is superb. The introduction of minute touches to this repeated theme is TD at its best - what they used to do years before but with analogue twiddlings rather than digital samples. Chuck-chuck-chuckaaahah. And then another superb guitar solo, a reduction in pace and volume and more speechless work. This song makes me want to cry, every time I hear it. This really does touch me on a very emotional level. Dolphin Dance (4AS) - I tend to find this a bit poppy after the first two tracks, but in its own right it is half-decent. The guitar on this is good, and is enough to win this 3rd place on the CD. Ride on the Ray (4AS) - This one starts quite slowly for me, but once again I like the gradual build up, via the added layers, toward the guitar work and the foot-tapping rhythm. Scuba Scuba (3AS) - The weakest track on the album for me. Sounds a little like U.T. (in structure) but doesn't seem to hit it off quite as well Underwater Twilight (4AS) - I like this track a lot. >From the slow, quiet start to the interesting use of percussion throughout the majority of the track, well produced causing the ears to dart from speaker to speaker. It has some nice touches on top of that, too, like the actual 'tune', the repeated main lead, and the piano stuff toward the end. This album, on average, scores 4.17, but I think of this as a 5AS. Why? Well, the first two tracks are so superb, they really do rate at the peak of the scale. The rest of the album (excepting Scuba Scuba) is very good too. It's easy to give something like Tangram a 5AS (although I didn't) because there's only two tracks. Achieving such a high standard across a range of six tracks which often sound quite different is, I think, a great achievement and deserves to receive the highest accolade this list has to offer. 5AS. --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi S3I Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) E-mail : cordrey@m... cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1425 Re: D : Underwater Sunlight feldon@n... Tue 3/4/1997 2 KB 1494 Re: D : Underwater Sunlight PNaunton@a... Thu 3/6/1997 2 KB 1606 D : Underwater Sunlight Dennis Nigbur Mon 3/10/1997 9 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 4, 1997 2:02 pm Subject: Check this out guys! DRC U.S. Release Really-From: feldon@n... Dream Roots Collection now available from CDNow as an import $47 + SH Morgan feldon@n... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 4, 1997 2:05 pm Subject: Re: D : Underwater Sunlight Really-From: feldon@n... At 11:37 AM 3/4/97 GB-EIRE, you wrote: >Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > >Well, as you'll see from the review later, I really liked >it. But when I started to move to CDs, I could never find >it anywhere. It was 1990 before I found a Relativity import >in HMV in Sheffield. It cost me stlg23 and to this day that is >still the most I've ever paid for any piece of music >(Sonambulistic Imagery cost arounf stlg20 in 1993). But I can >honestly say it was well worth the money. I still don't see >U.S. around much. Has Castle re-issued it? Is it any better >than the Relativity release? There appears to be a remastered version of Underwater Sunlight available from CDNow. Morgan feldon@n... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 4, 1997 1:55 pm Subject: Re: Canadian Music Really-From: TWeibre361@a... In a message dated 97-03-03 20:05:48 EST, you write: << I really used to love SAGA , a lot of people actually thought they were from Germany >> i know this is getting silly, but i cant help myself: Quarterflash! tom 'apologetically your' w np: st. etienne - casino classics (disc 1) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1438 Re: Canadian Music sean Tue 3/4/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 4, 1997 2:12 pm Subject: Re: Fripp does Tangentize--proven Really-From: TWeibre361@a... In a message dated 97-03-03 20:31:46 EST, you write: << Robert Fripp does Tangentize--just look at the first King Crimson Box set--I mean come on now--Adrian Belew vocals on Cadence & Cascade? A. Belew was in the late 70's early 80's Crimson and not before that--yet his vocals appear on this track from 1970 was it? >> are u talking of the 'best of' box or the 'live' box? the only reason i ask is because in the 80s encarnation of crimso, cadence and cascade was played live with belew on vocals and i think some of that made it to one of the box sets...damn, wish i were at home... tom w sp: st. etienne - casino classics From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 4, 1997 9:07 pm Subject: Re: tadream-digest V15 #852 Really-From: ashok prema Re: my query regarding 2 shows on the same night. Thanks to Kev for the private e-mail confirming that there were in fact 2 shows held that night at the Dominion in 1982 - as Kev points out - this was why, the voice on the album says 'Thank you for being patient.....' ! I did have recollections of sitting through both shows - but after all those years began wondering if my mind had started playing tricks! - and in case anyone asks - No - I don't remember if there were any differences between the shows! Ash From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 4, 1997 2:23 pm Subject: D: This week Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' Underwater Sunlight Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1636 D: This week Plumer, Scott Mon 3/10/1997 2 KB 2167 D: This week Plumer, Scott Mon 3/31/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 4, 1997 2:31 pm Subject: PSYCHOTRONICS 'Red Nights' NOT!!!! Really-From: Craig Shipley I read the description of the movie 'Red Nights' that TD supposedly scored the soundtrack to and, folks, that ain't it!! The 'Red Nights' that TD scored was a film that took place in West and East Germany. Linda Blair was a US serviceman's' wife that observed a spy transaction (or a murder) by those naughty East Germans and they abducted her and tossed her into a women's' prison. The women are all very naughty to each other and lovely Linda is terrorized by these bad girls. Hubby, being the macho US serviceman, finds out where she is and liberates her and the rest of the prison. High points of the movie was the TD soundtrack and Ms. Blairs' physique (she sure has matured since 'The Exorcist'!). I got this one on tape, as Showtime had it on back in the early '90's... Craig Shipley craigs@p... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 4, 1997 3:22 pm Subject: Re[2]: Canadian Music Really-From: Brian_Kirby@p... >Really-From: TWeibre361@a... >i know this is getting silly, but i cant help myself: Quarterflash! Tom, next time you get that urge, you should probably just 'Harden your Heart.' Still waiting to be taken to task for my 'hockey & beer' comment, B. Kirby Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1442 Re: Re[2]: Canadian Music TWeibre361@a... Tue 3/4/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 4, 1997 3:13 pm Subject: Re: Check this out guys! DRC U.S. Release Really-From: Mark Filipak > Really-From: 'Vincent Goudreault' > > On Mar 3, 2:33pm, tadream mailing list wrote: > > Subject: Re: Check this out guys! DRC U.S. Release > > Really-From: 'Carlos A. Martinez' > > > > > > >Really-From: feldon@n... > > > > [about Dream Roots Collection] > > > > I've got mine from CDUniverse under 45 dollars (sh & hd. incld), even > > tought it's an import title, you know. > > > > E-mail address, please! > > (have pity on us deprived of web access!) > > C.B. Vincent Goudreault > online since early 93, TD fan since 77 > first exposure: Stratosfear, fave albums: Rubycon/Ricochet Looks like no-one else is going to help out our dear beaver lover so guess I'll have to. CD Universe $41.81 (in eagle money) manager@c... Bag one for me. -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 4, 1997 2:28 pm Subject: Re: D:_-_-_-'Tyranny Of Beauty'-_-_-_ Really-From: Mark Filipak Phil. Every time I run across your reply I scratch my head and think 'Well, maybe I'll figure it out later' and then I forget about it until I run across it again. This time I'm going to ask. I assume that 'L' is 'Lily on the Beach' and not 'Livemiles', but pray tell, what the hell is 'HoF'? (Argh!) -- Mark tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: PNaunton@a... > > In a message dated 97-02-25 10:49:58 EST, you write: > > << Everyone else, enjoy the music and leave Edgar's > navel alone. -- Mark (it's just music ferchrissake, not high art) >> > > But, Mark, is it REALLY music. Certainly TD has aspired to > high art, and, in several cases I can think of, Made It. 'ToB', 'HoF', > & 'L' doesn't aspire to music. They are simply masturbation. The > previous, in my, maybe/maybe not, humble opinion, of course. > > Phil Naunton Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1434 Re: D:_-_-_-'Tyranny Of Beauty'-_-_-_ Mark Filipak Tue 3/4/1997 5 KB 1437 Re: D:_-_-_-'Tyranny Of Beauty'-_-_-_ Dennis Nigbur Tue 3/4/1997 3 KB 1459 Re: D:_-_-_-'Tyranny Of Beauty'-_-_-_ PNaunton@a... Wed 3/5/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 4, 1997 2:50 pm Subject: Re: D:_-_-_-'Tyranny Of Beauty'-_-_-_ Really-From: Mark Filipak On Tue, 25 Feb 1997 03:22:00 -0800 Mark Filipak wrote: << Anyone who believes any of the above should go back to 'The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway'. Everyone else, enjoy the music and leave Edgar's navel alone. -- Mark (it's just music ferchrissake, not high art) >> On Thu, 27 Feb 1997 12:03:39 -0500 (EST) Dennis Nigbur replied: << Yes Mark, it's exactly what you say: It's music. And music undoubtedly is more than a tool or a lump of food. Whenever an artist creates something, he is implying the notion of a superordinate idea that keeps the work together as a whole; he may want to make an explicit statement; or the situation, his mood, and various other contextual aspects inspire him to create his work in precisely that way and no other. Normally, it seems to be a mixture of both. It is quite obvious from TD history and from various statements by Edgar himself that their music was always trying to adopt the way in which Dali created his surreal paintings and change the form of output from oil on canvas to music. Therefore what TD produce is obviously _music_, but saying that it's _just_ music means treating the whole medium of music, and TD music in particular, unjustly. Jean Michel Jarre once said that the principal task of the musician is to inspire his listener, to evoke moods, feelings, and images in him. This goes just as well for TD music. It has always been more than an accumulation of sounds and notes; it is music with some sort of content. What differentiates us from music-consuming dummies nodding their head to any uninspired random collection of notes, saying 'that's nice' and forgetting about it, then, is that we actually try to make sense of the music, not just in terms of musical structure, running times, instruments and the like, but also in terms of what that music actually tells us personally, what implications it has for our own life. I'd be surprised if TD didn't want their audience to actually _think_ about their music. The thing about ToB is that the first few pieces on the album definitely seem to go into one direction, whereas 'Stratosfear 1994' and the subsequent pieces IMO seem to diffuse into any direction possible (and I don't seem to be the only person on the list who has that impression). My question was not what images precisely they might have tried to evoke, and it certainly was not a criticism in the tradition of 'Why did they do THAT?'. You could rather read it as a curious 'WHY did they do that?'. If the TD mailing list is not the place to discuss interpretations of a particular TD album, then what is?? Dennis >> Of course this list is the place to discuss interpretations of TD music and albums. It's just that in the case of ToB and several other recent albums, there's not much to discuss as they are merely collections of nice songs without much concept behind them. Now before anyone turns their flame thrower on me, 1, this is my opinion, and 2, I'm not slogging the band or slandering Edgar. ToB is a collection of nice songs which any band would be proud to have put out, but it's not great art. I don't see any of the songs (and yes, they're just songs) fitting together into any sort of unit or structure. ToB just doesn't tell me a story or put _any_ pictures in my head. -- Mark (humble as always) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 4, 1997 3:51 pm Subject: Re: Virgin logo Really-From: Mark Filipak tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' > > Does know where on the 'net I might find a copy of the original Virgin > logo? I mean the one with the two girls back-to-back. I need to use it > in a document, and I was hoping I could find an electronic copy of it. > I've tried Virgin's web sites. > > Scott Oh, and what output do you want? -- give me either size in inches across and dots/inch resolution, or number of pixels across. -- Mark PS: I got a nice big one I can scan -- about 3' across and my scanner will do 1200 dots/inch. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: Re: 'Red Nights' not-NOT Really-From: John Burek <72241.2313@C...> >>Message text written by tadream mailing list >>>I read the description of the movie 'Red Nights' that TD supposedly = >>scored the soundtrack to and, folks, that ain't it!! The 'Red Nights' = >>that TD scored was a film that took place in West and East Germany. = >>Linda Blair was a US serviceman's' wife that observed a spy transaction = >>(or a murder) by those naughty East Germans and they abducted her and = >>tossed her into a women's' prison. The women are all very naughty to = >>each other and lovely Linda is terrorized by these bad girls. Hubby, = >>being the macho US serviceman, finds out where she is and liberates her = >>and the rest of the prison. High points of the movie was the TD = >>soundtrack and Ms. Blairs' physique (she sure has matured since 'The = >>Exorcist'!). >>I got this one on tape, as Showtime had it on back in the early '90's...< Hello, To set the record straight: the original description of 'Red Nights' was correct. There were two TD films in the mid-80s beginning with 'Red'--the one you're describing above is 'Red Heat', I believe from 1985 or 1986 (from all descriptions I've heard it's pretty much as described above--haven't seen it myself--and it's not the Schwarzenegger/Belushi glasnost action movie of the same name, before anyone asks). I think the film might have been a German/US co-production. There is indeed a 'Red Nights', too, which was released in 1987--about an aspiring young actor who runs afoul of Hollywood sleeze--which also has a TD soundtrack. I caught the last few minutes of this one on cable a few years ago, and it indeed has a TD soundtrack--a little snioppet of which is found on the CD '70/90.' Copies of both fine flicks should be available in cheapo sale bins near you--at least they were about a year ago in NYC. :-) --John From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 4, 1997 10:06 pm Subject: Re: D:_-_-_-'Tyranny Of Beauty'-_-_-_ Really-From: Dennis Nigbur Sorry to answer for someone else, but this is confusing me. As far as I understood, ToB, HoF and L stand for Tyranny of Beauty, Haze of Fame, and Largo, respectively?? Dennis On Tue, 04 Mar 1997 06:28:58 -0800 tadream mailing list wrote: >Really-From: Mark Filipak > > >Phil. Every time I run across your reply I scratch my head and think >'Well, maybe I'll figure it out later' and then I forget about it until >I run across it again. This time I'm going to ask. I assume that 'L' >is 'Lily on the Beach' and not 'Livemiles', but pray tell, what the hell >is 'HoF'? (Argh!) -- Mark > >tadream mailing list wrote: >> >> Really-From: PNaunton@a... >> >> In a message dated 97-02-25 10:49:58 EST, you write: >> >> << Everyone else, enjoy the music and leave Edgar's >> navel alone. -- Mark (it's just music ferchrissake, not high art) >> >> >> But, Mark, is it REALLY music. Certainly TD has aspired to >> high art, and, in several cases I can think of, Made It. 'ToB', 'HoF', >> & 'L' doesn't aspire to music. They are simply masturbation. The >> previous, in my, maybe/maybe not, humble opinion, of course. >> >> Phil Naunton > From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 4, 1997 5:16 pm Subject: Re: Canadian Music Really-From: sean > i know this is getting silly, but i cant help myself: Quarterflash! Okay....*cracks knuckles, rolls up sleeves* Gino Vanelli! Loverboy! Bachman Turner Overdrive! Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR http://www.topix.com/~sean 'I used to be indecisive, but now I just don't know' From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: Various Data Needed for TD Pocket Discography Really-From: Steven Feldman Hi, All, I'm updating my discography and need the following info: o TYRANNY OF BEAUTY UK releases: was there only an AMP release with 'Quasar,' or is there one from TDI also? o What is the name of the Coma Virus album, and . . . are Coma Virus and Paul Haslinger one and the same, or a group of sorts? o What is the name of the C. Franke CD done for a Deepak Chopra shpiel? o What is the name of the compilation with PHAEDRA, RUBYCON and STRATOS- FEAR? (Did I get that right? If not, what exactly is on it, again?) o What countries has the C. Franke soundtrack, PERRY RHODAN: PAX TERRA been released in? o What is the name of the second BABYLON 5 soundtrack? Steven Feldman -- 33 Brook Street, Apt. 3, Brookline, MA 02146; INTERNET: BITNET: DREAMS WORD: Electronic Dreams, POB 42385, Portland, OR 97242. The Nightcrawlers, c/o Peter D. Gulch -- 1493 Greenwood Avenue, Camden, NJ 08103-2929. PERSONAL FAVES: Tangerine Dream, Nightcrawlers, Ozrics, Jonn Serrie, Robert Carty. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ OUT TO PROVE THAT 'THE KEEP' SOUNDTRACK WAS RELEASED TEMPORARILY IN 1984. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1508 Re: Various Data Needed for TD Pocket Discography Robin A.Seed Thu 3/6/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 4, 1997 7:13 pm Subject: Re: Check this out guys! DRC U.S. Release Really-From: 'Vincent Goudreault' On Mar 3, 7:58pm, tadream mailing list wrote: > Subject: Re: Check this out guys! DRC U.S. Release > Really-From: 'Carlos A. Martinez' > > > >Really-From: 'Vincent Goudreault' > > > > (...) > >> > >> > >> I've got mine from CDUniverse under 45 dollars (sh & hd. incld), even > >> tought it's an import title, you know. > >> > > > >E-mail address, please! > > > >(have pity on us deprived of web access!) > > Hello, folks! > > CDUniverse: > http://www.cduniverse.com Carlos: That is their web site, NOT their e-mail address. I can't access the web, remember? The only thing that goes through with our system is e-mail. I need an e-mail address (something@c..., or something like that...) In fact something WITHOUT 'www'... (...) > > Hasta la vista! > > Carlos Alberto Martinez > Monterrey, Mexico > C.B. Vincent Goudreault online since early 93, TD fan since 77 first exposure: Stratosfear, fave albums: Rubycon/Ricochet From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 4, 1997 7:33 pm Subject: Re: Check this out guys! DRC U.S. Release Really-From: 'Vincent Goudreault' Thanks Mark, for the CD Universe e-mail address. I think I am going to cancel my order with CD Europe since it has been more than 3 months already (and they were selling the Dream Root Collection for a whole lot more $$$... Regards C.B. Vincent Goudreault online since early 93, TD fan since 77 first exposure: Stratosfear, fave albums: Rubycon/Ricochet From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 4, 1997 8:36 pm Subject: Re: Re[2]: Canadian Music Really-From: TWeibre361@a... In a message dated 97-03-04 10:26:55 EST, you write: << Tom, next time you get that urge, you should probably just 'Harden your Heart.' Still waiting to be taken to task for my 'hockey & beer' comment, >> i know, and i really apologize, but sometimes this list just gets too .... serious! tom ' gotta seek some levity people' w np: black star liner - yemen cutta connection (still waiting for td 2 be produced by adrian sherwood; i know, 'dream on') From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 4, 1997 8:34 pm Subject: Re: Review of RED NIGHTS in THE PSYCHOTRONIC VIDEO GUIDE Really-From: 'Harri Ikonen' > Really-From: Steven Feldman > > THE PSYCHOTRONIC VIDEO GUIDE, by Michael J. Weldon > St. Martin's Griffin, 1996, has this on page 456: > > RED NIGHTS (TWE, 1988) > D: IZHAK HANOOKA > Christopher Parker star [sic] as an East Coast kid who goes to > Hollywood to try and make it. With William Smith and Jack Carter. > The score is by the German synth group Tangerine Dream who did > music for many increasingly cheap and obscure movies. Thanks for the update, Steven. Could you just tell us the writer and the running time of the film to make my list entry complete? I'd appreciate that. > Note: This video guide has over 30,000 entries and is devoted mostly to > cult-type flicks. There are entries for many TD-scored films, such as > WAVELENGTH, FLASHPOINT, FIRESTARTER, LEGEND, THE KEEP, > and NERA DARK, but the above is the only nasty review. THE KEEP > review referred to the soundtrack as being 'dreary'! Is there any information about 'Single Man'? That film is a complete mystery to me as even Bobby Roth filmographies don't list it! Harri -- the (unofficial) keeper of the TD filmography? From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 12:39 am Subject: Dream Roots at CD Connection Really-From: Rich Maggio There seems to be a lot of posts recently about where to purchase Dream Roots as an import. I've seen CD Eurpope, CD Universe, CD Now, and others mentioned. No one has mentioned CD Connection, so here is some information on them: Dream Roots is available at CD Connection for the price shown below. They charge 3.50 shipping to anywhere in the US for orders that are under $100. If you place an order for $100 or more, shipping is on them. I ordered my copy from them and had it in under 2 weeks! I couldn't have been happier with their service and their selection. The text below is copied right off their web page... <> $38.99 TANGERINE DREAM -- DREAM ROOTS COLLECTION (5CD) IMU274912 IMPORTED Add to Shopping Basket <> Web Address http://www.cdconnection.com I coouldn't find and email address (despite searching their entire information section), but you might call them at the number listed below if you don't have web access. Or you might try sales@c... I think that is correct. They also have telnet and BBS setups. If anyone who is web 'challenged' :-) let me know and I can post the BBS numbers and the telnet access information. << snippet from their information page >> About the Compact Disc Connection Welcome. We deal exclusively in the online sale of new compact discs. We have been serving the online community in this capacity since 1990. Our service features: Free regular shipping for orders of $100 or more to destinations in the 50 United States, and its territories. Discount prices on all CDs, every day. 143,246 CDs. (The entire current catalogs of all the U.S. major labels, plus more than 6000 independent labels, plus more than 10,000 imports.) More than a half million song titles. (Trade Service Corp's Phonolog-Select(tm) and more...) 150,000 reviews and ratings from the Golden Ears Society, the best judges of music in the world, our 'golden-eared' customers... The All-Music Guide. 30,000 reviews, ratings and recommendations from expert critics, writers, and music professionals. Our mailing and shipping address is: COMPACT DISC CONNECTION 1030 E. EL CAMINO #322 SUNNYVALE, CA USA 94087 Our fax number is: 408/985-0464. Our voice number is: 408/985-7905. Again, welcome! Welcome to the Compact Disc Connection, the Internet's favorite music store! << end snippet from their information page >> Happy shopping! Rich Maggio BTW - I am in no way affilicated with this company - I am just a VERY satisfied customer of theirs. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 12:52 am Subject: Anyone hear of these? Really-From: Rich Maggio I found these titles when searching at German Music Express. Any idea of what these are? I have never heard them discussed on the list. Are any of the worth owning? <> $23.68 OST/TANGERINE DREAM -- ENDE DER ANGST COLO820720 06/93 COLOSSEUM Add to Shopping Basket $23.68 OST/TANGERINE DREAM -- FAUSTRECHT COLO430721 06/93 COLOSSEUM Add to Shopping Basket $23.68 OST/TANGERINE DREAM -- FEUERTEUFEL COLO525120 06/93 COLOSSEUM Add to Shopping Basket <> Thanks, Rich Maggio Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1450 Re: Anyone hear of these? Plumer, Scott Wed 3/5/1997 2 KB 1453 Re: Anyone hear of these? John Burek Wed 3/5/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 4:23 pm Subject: Really-From: Armin Theissen > >I found these titles when searching at >German Music Express. Any idea of what these >are? I have never heard them discussed on the list. >Are any of the worth owning? > ><> >$23.68 OST/TANGERINE DREAM -- ENDE DER ANGST >COLO820720 06/93 COLOSSEUM Add to Shopping Basket > >$23.68 OST/TANGERINE DREAM -- FAUSTRECHT >COLO430721 06/93 COLOSSEUM Add to Shopping Basket > >$23.68 OST/TANGERINE DREAM -- FEUERTEUFEL >COLO525120 06/93 COLOSSEUM Add to Shopping Basket ><> > >Thanks, >Rich Maggio > It seems these are soundtracks. 'Colosseum' is a label releasing all kinds of soundtracks. The movie titles here are the german ones. 'Feuerteufel' is 'Firestarter' (though not a correct translation, but the appropriate german title for the film). I don't know which movies are 'Faustrecht' and 'Ende der Angst' (which means 'end of fear'). 'Ende der Angst' sounds like the Sorcerer title (Sorcerer is a remake of the french Wages of Fear, in german 'Lohn der Angst'). Armin Armin Theissen ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Armagh Observatory email: ath@s... College Hill http://www.astro.uni-bonn.de/~theissen Armagh, BT61 9DG Phone: (+44) 1861 522928 Northern Ireland Fax: (+44) 1861 527174 Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1936 Armin Theissen Tue 3/18/1997 2 KB 1959 ashok prema Wed 3/19/1997 3 KB 1962 Re: Mark Filipak Wed 3/19/1997 3 KB 2225 feldon@n... Tue 4/1/1997 2 KB 2228 Re: Greg Tue 4/1/1997 3 KB 2397 - Sun 4/6/1997 2 KB 2466 Martynas Storasta Tue 4/8/1997 2 KB 2706 Darren L Oswald Tue 4/15/1997 2 KB 2777 Tomohiro Goto Fri 4/18/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 11:11 am Subject: help please!!!!! / no td content Really-From: 'Lars R. Jones' <105411.3107@c...> please help; I've learned that some of you with whom I have corresponded personally have only received a blank message from me (or at least with no more than the routing header). If you have received such a message, please e-mail me and I will try to resend. Beyond that, CAN ANY ONE OF (ALL) YOU INTELLIGENT, EDUCATED DREAMERS HELP ME WITH THIS PROBLEM? I only ask because it seems random and I have nowhere else to turn Here's is exactly what the problem seems to be: I am NOT receiving any blank messages. not do I seem to be having any problem receiving any mail Every message I have sent to tadream has made it OK My Harvard account is only getting about 1 in 10 messages (so I thought the problem was there) I had no problems sending mail to my harvard account previously Before I left I had no problems with receiving mail on my harvard account nothing seems to have changed since that time; other people at Harvard have gotten my mail; and, other people not at Harvard have not gotten my mail. it seems to have nothing to do with file length. I get no bounce-back 'undeliverable messages' unless it is sent to a reall 'undeliverable' address would a bug triggered by a space, a return or a certain letter as the first character of the email nuke the contents of an email in the recipient's or the sender's system or could it happen either place? I don't have web access so I can't try to find compuserve support (if there is any such thing!). Harvard does not have any tech support. thanks, you can respond to me privately lars (I ask this because I need to email some very important documents in the next two weeks and I must know that they will be received) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 1:13 pm Subject: Uhh, 'Red Heat' is NOT 'Red Nights', I knew that!!! Really-From: Craig Shipley Sorry, all, had a brainfarht there. I realized after I posted that the film I posted about was 'Red HEAT' not 'Red NIGHTS'. The US version didn't have a TD soundtrack and I didn't really know that there was another movie with the same title. I'll go back to sleep now... ObjCDPlayer: Eloy / The Tides Return Forever (hey, Jocyln Smith of TYGER infamy sings on this one and is pretty good here! I like my TD without vocals, thankyouverymuch!) Craig Shipley craigs@p... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 1:19 pm Subject: Underwater Sunlight Really-From: PERREAULT JOCELYN Underwater Sunlight is now available from Castle comm at any music store in Canada and, of course, in USA. Inside, there's a lot more infos than the JIVE CD. There's a story about the band and interview with Paul Haslinger. The sound as been remastered in 1995 at Eastgate studio so the sound is better than the Jive VErsion because this one have distortion if you listen to it very loud in headphone (like many of Jive cd). Bye jo Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1524 Re: Underwater Sunlight Robert Forman Fri 3/7/1997 3 KB 16475 Underwater Sunlight Jonathan Schick Mon 5/17/1999 2 KB 16477 Re: Underwater Sunlight Charles Amos Mon 5/17/1999 2 KB 29827 Underwater Sunlight Michael Jean Fri 10/26/2001 2 KB 32853 Underwater Sunlight Ken Beal Thu 3/21/2002 2 KB 32854 Re: Underwater Sunlight Matthew Sawyer Thu 3/21/2002 3 KB 32862 Re: Underwater Sunlight TheInfection Thu 3/21/2002 2 KB 32863 Re: Underwater Sunlight Heiko Heerssen Thu 3/21/2002 3 KB 32870 Re: Underwater Sunlight John McIntyre Thu 3/21/2002 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 1:24 pm Subject: RE: Anyone hear of these? Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' >$23.68 OST/TANGERINE DREAM -- FAUSTRECHT >COLO430721 06/93 COLOSSEUM Add to Shopping Basket 'Faustrecht' translates directly to 'fist law' or, more accurately, 'law of the jungle.' Might this be Flashpoint? Three O'clock High? Scott From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 1:28 pm Subject: Off-topic, but... Really-From: 'Jonathan Block' I know this is off topic, but I hate to see wrong information.... First this was reported: >>><< Robert Fripp does Tangentize--just look at the first King Crimson Box set--I mean come on now--Adrian Belew vocals on Cadence & Cascade? A. Belew was in the late 70's early 80's Crimson and not before that--yet his vocals appear on this track from 1970 was it? >><<< There was no King Crimson in the late 70's; the band Discipline was formed in early 1981, with Belew, and soon became Crimson (again). Then, Tom wrote: >>are u talking of the 'best of' box or the 'live' box? the only reason i ask is because in the 80s encarnation of crimso, cadence and cascade was played live with belew on vocals and i think some of that made it to one of the box sets...damn, wish i were at home...<< Believe me, Cadence and Cascade was never played live in the 1980s. It hasn't been heard live since the Spring of 1972. Belew rerecorded the vocals for the Frame By Frame box set that came out in 1991. The live box, The Great Deceiver, contains material from the 1973-74 tours. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 8:58 pm Subject: off topic: Eloy Really-From: ath@s... (Armin Theissen) >ObjCDPlayer: Eloy / The Tides Return Forever (hey, Jocyln Smith of TYGER = >infamy sings on this one and is pretty good here! I like my TD without = >vocals, thankyouverymuch!) > >Craig Shipley >craigs@p... Oh, I was a big Eloy fan when I was 14/15 years old. I liked all their stuff - mostly 'Power and the Passioin', 'Silent Cries and Mighty Echoes', and the two concept albums 'Planets' and 'Time to Turn'. Then they split, I guess, and I lost track. I realized they made some comeback, but I did not cared. So what do you think of 'The Tides Return Forever'? Armin From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: Re: Anyone hear of these? Really-From: John Burek <72241.2313@C...> Message text written by tadream mailing list >I found these titles when searching at German Music Express. Any idea of what these are? I have never heard them discussed on the list. Are any of the worth owning? <> $23.68 OST/TANGERINE DREAM -- ENDE DER ANGST COLO820720 06/93 COLOSSEUM Add to Shopping Basket $23.68 OST/TANGERINE DREAM -- FAUSTRECHT COLO430721 06/93 COLOSSEUM Add to Shopping Basket $23.68 OST/TANGERINE DREAM -- FEUERTEUFEL COLO525120 06/93 COLOSSEUM Add to Shopping Basket <>< --------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ - -- Hello, If you're in the States you'd probably save some bucks buying these through an American mail order firm, since these are probably USA imports being sold for what they'd cost as imports in Germany. 'Ende der Angst' (The End of Fear) was the German title for the 'Wavelength' film, 'Feuerteufel' for 'Firestarter.' I'm not sure which film 'Faustrecht' is, but since it's the same price as the other two, I'd hazard a guess that it's also one of the Varese Sarabande-released TD discs--as Scott suggested, probably '3 O' Clock High' or maybe 'Near Dark.' --John From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 2:56 pm Subject: D:-_-_-'Underwater Sunlight'-_-_- Really-From: PNaunton@a... 5-Mar-1997 Tangerine Dream 'Underwater Sunlight' Published - 1986 Purchased - 1986 Format - LP Label - Relativity Catalog - EMC 8113 Personnel - Froese, Franke, Haslinger Ya' know, there is nothing to complain about with this recording, and I liked it when I first put it on the old turntable. I don't play it hardly at all any more, though, and I really don't feel like listening to it all that much. I guess there is an absence of Tangerine Dream type hooks. The closest piece that gets back to the 'old familiar TD type sound' is 'Dolphin Dance' and yet this too, pales in comparison to the redone cover on Chris Franke's 'London Concert'. Now That Is A Dance!! The version on 'US' is more like a minuet; too polite. It's that new age-y feel which makes it suffer, I think. Too premeditated, too thought out, too much of that almost marquee announcement; 'this is the musical work of the decade, century, millennium, whatever.' It's not. It's just a collection of good music, but it has this pompous sound which makes me want to take the LP off the turntable and put something else on - - like 'Tangram' for example. What do you think, is this the Haslinger influence? Has he taken over too much at this point? The guy has some serious musical capabilities, but as with most talented figures, he needs some guidance and moderation. That last cut for example, 'Underwater Twilight', has some amazing keyboard work near the end, but the tune itself is uninspired; just kind of mopes along. A thought just hit me; is this an unassociated soundtrack? It has a very soundtrackish quality; almost boring developments and prolonged introductions. The music, for the most part, has a very non-intrusive quality, as if its hanging in the background for a particular purpose. I hope I haven't laid anyone's favourite TD work out for ruin. Phil Naunton Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1457 Re: D:-_-_-'Underwater Sunlight'-_-_- Craig R. J. Cordrey Wed 3/5/1997 5 KB 1469 Re: D:-_-_-'Underwater Sunlight'-_-_- sean Wed 3/5/1997 4 KB 1526 Re: D:-_-_-'Underwater Sunlight'-_-_- PNaunton@a... Fri 3/7/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: Re: Wages of Fear Really-From: John Burek <72241.2313@C...> >>>It seems these are soundtracks. 'Colosseum' is a label releasing >>all kinds of soundtracks. The movie titles here are the german ones. >>'Feuerteufel' is 'Firestarter' (though not a correct translation, >>but the appropriate german title for the film). I don't know which >>movies are 'Faustrecht' and 'Ende der Angst' (which means 'end of fear'). >>'Ende der Angst' sounds like the Sorcerer title (Sorcerer is a remake >>of the french Wages of Fear, in german 'Lohn der Angst'). < The German 'Sorcerer' title was 'Atemlos vor Angst', if I'm not mistaken. --John Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1463 Re: Wages of Fear Dennis Nigbur Wed 3/5/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: 10 Fave E-music Albums (only 3 TD-related) Really-From: Steven Feldman The following is a list of my fave ten e-music recordings which I sent off to Minnette Music's newsletter, 'Charzean Volt,' which has a feature for their customers to send in their list of faves. 1) EPSILON IN MALAYSIAN PALE by Edgar Froese 2) RUBYCON by Tangerine Dream 3) SONIC PERFUME by Don Slepian 4) MUSIC FOR AIRPORTS by Brian Eno 5) OXYGENE by Jean-Michel Jarre 6) ROMANCE 76 by Peter Baumann 7) SHADOWS OF LIGHT by the Nightcrawlers 8) NATURAL WONDER by Robert Carty 9) PLANETARY CHRONICLES, VOLUME 2 by Jonn Serrie 10) REGENERATION MODE by [Chuck] Van Zyl and [Peter D.] Gulch* * Peter D. Gulch is/was the founder/leader of The Nightcrawlers, a band that put out some 30 cassettes, but only 3 albums and no CDs. Steven Feldman -- 33 Brook Street, Apt. 3, Brookline, MA 02146; INTERNET: BITNET: DREAMS WORD: Electronic Dreams, POB 42385, Portland, OR 97242. The Nightcrawlers, c/o Peter D. Gulch -- 1493 Greenwood Avenue, Camden, NJ 08103-2929. PERSONAL FAVES: Tangerine Dream, Nightcrawlers, Ozrics, Jonn Serrie, Robert Carty. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ OUT TO PROVE THAT 'THE KEEP' SOUNDTRACK WAS RELEASED TEMPORARILY IN 1984. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1460 Re: 10 Fave E-music Albums (only 3 TD-related) Vic Rek Wed 3/5/1997 2 KB 1465 Re: 10 Fave E-music Albums (only 3 TD-related) TWeibre361@a... Wed 3/5/1997 2 KB 1569 10 Fave E-music Albums (only 3 TD-related) Klaus Beschorner Sat 3/8/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 10:41 pm Subject: Re: D:-_-_-'Underwater Sunlight'-_-_- Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > Really-From: PNaunton@a... > > Ya' know, there is nothing to complain about with this recording, > and I liked it when I first put it on the old turntable. Sounds good. Would have to agree with this statement. > I don't play it > hardly at all any more, though, That's unfortunate. Never mind, too much of a good thing, eh? > and I really don't feel like listening to it all that much. Oh. [ .. snips .. ] > What do you think, is this the Haslinger influence? Has he taken > over too much at this point? I don't know. I'd be surprised if it was : young man (what, 20?) just out of college joining a group which had been on the go for some 15 years or so (and I mean Froese/Franke, not TD as such). Couldn't imagine him 'taking over' then, if at all. > The guy has some serious musical capabilities, > but as with most talented figures, he needs some guidance and moderation. > That last cut for example, 'Underwater Twilight', has some amazing keyboard > work near the end, but the tune itself is uninspired; just kind of mopes > along. The problem I have with this statement is it puts me in a bind - I like to think that Paul had an influence on TD that helped form the sound of US and Tyger in particular (I guess he had more influence once Franke left, given the similarity of the stuff between Franke and Jerome years). But, having said that, when someone then says they don't like the sound and blames Paul (or perhaps nods in his direction as a major contributing factor, to try not to put words into Phil's mouth) I feel I have to say 'well, there were two other people in the band, after all.' Do I have a problem here? > A thought just hit me; is this an unassociated soundtrack? It has > a very soundtrackish quality; almost boring developments and prolonged > introductions. BORING ?!??????!!!!!????? > The music, for the most part, has a very non-intrusive > quality, as if its hanging in the background for a particular purpose. It's purpose is to lure you in, engulf you, make you think of nothing but the music. Of course, I'm primarily talking about Song of the Whale here, the others are pretty in-yer-face, I would have said. > > I hope I haven't laid anyone's favourite TD work out for ruin. > You did. But I'm man enough to take it on the chin like a real trooper. And then get you back for it later. 8-) --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi S3I Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) E-mail : cordrey@m... cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 10:46 pm Subject: Oxygene/Toxygene/The Orb/TD Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' Not entirely TD related, but its in there. I picked up the new Oxygene 7-13 CD by JMJ last week. Excellent, IMO. Can anyone compare it with Toxygene (i.e is Toxygene worth searching out). I'm only mildly keen on the Oxygene original. Speaking of the Orb, has anyone seen or heard anything about that supposed CD Single coming out in the middle of Feb? Thanks, --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi S3I Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) E-mail : cordrey@m... cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1462 Release date of Orb's TD Remix sean Wed 3/5/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 4:04 pm Subject: Re: D:_-_-_-'Tyranny Of Beauty'-_-_-_ Really-From: PNaunton@a... In a message dated 97-03-04 10:31:23 EST, you write: << Phil. Every time I run across your reply I scratch my head and think 'Well, maybe I'll figure it out later' and then I forget about it until I run across it again. This time I'm going to ask. I assume that 'L' is 'Lily on the Beach' and not 'Livemiles', but pray tell, what the hell is 'HoF'? (Argh!) -- Mark >> Duh, when I read your post I didn't know either. I got caught in my own trap! This is why I don't usually fall into using these stupid letters. I'm going back to using full titles. These were actually individual _tracks_ off the 'Tyranny Of Beauty' album. HoF = 'Haze Of Fame' ToB = 'Tyranny Of Beauty' the track L = 'Largo' Sorry for the deliberately conjured attempt to make myself even more enigmatic than I had ever hoped for. I'll see it when I believe it. Phil Naunton From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 5:03 pm Subject: Re: 10 Fave E-music Albums (only 3 TD-related) Really-From: Vic Rek >Really-From: Steven Feldman > The following is a list of my fave ten e-music recordings which I >sent off to Minnette Music's newsletter, 'Charzean Volt,' which has a >feature for their customers to send in their list of faves. > > 1) EPSILON IN MALAYSIAN PALE by Edgar Froese > 2) RUBYCON by Tangerine Dream I like these first two choices. 'Epsilon in Malaysian Pale' is my favorite Froese album and 'Rubycon' is in my top 5 by TD. Vic From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: D: _Tyger_ Really-From: Marshall Wood _Tyger_ (1987) Rating: 3 AS I've only heard the Relativity version of this CD, with all the bonus tracks. I think of this release as an interesting experiment, but it's not really something I listen to often. I wouldn't want TD to do a lot of work in this realm. Too much of the time the music takes a back seat to the vocals in terms of both prominence and interest. Incidentally, who was it that slipped the picture of Edgar _smiling_ in the liner notes? I bet that guy was fired! :) 'Tyger' is the most vocally oriented song on the album, and treads dangerously close to pop music, complete with fade- out ending. Nice, but not too interesting musically. Things start looking up in 'London.' I like the spoken vocals near the beginning, especially the pregnant pauses in the phrases 'soldier's sigh' and 'palace walls.' I also like the bouncy line that starts with 'In every cry of everyman...' and gets re-used throughout much of 'The Fly' section. And yes, the mispronounciation of 'Thames' catches my attention every time. In case it interests you, these lines which are sung but not included in the lyric book: Children of the future Age, Reading this indignant page; Know that in a former time. Love! sweet Love! was thought a crime. are actually part of another Blake poem called 'A Little Girl Lost.' As much as I like the vocal section, the song does improve dramatically around the 9:00 mark. The guitar solos are great, as usual. And I do hear something strange in the guitar solo at the 11:31 point. There is a brief, high-pitched squeak of feedback in the left channel at that point. The guitar tone is slightly different before and after this squeak, suggesting that perhaps two solos were spliced together. But I never noticed this until I went hunting for it. And now I'll probably never miss it! :) I whole-heartedly agree that 'Alchemy of the Heart' is the best track here. It's very melodic, with lots of changes in tempo and interesting sounds - this really evokes the essence of classic TD, even at this comparatively late date. The center piece of the recording. My only complaint is that sound deteriorates during the piano solo near the end. This is quite noticeable in headphones... On 'Smile,' I think that the music sits on an equal level with the vocals. Here, the music could stand on its own. I don't think I can say that about the music on, say, 'The Fly.' The final line sung by Smith is 'there's an end to all misery.' But in the liner notes, the final line is 'there's NO end to all misery.' The sung lyric is correct, according to the complete works of William Blake WWW site, which can be found at http://virtual.park.uga.edu/~wblake/eE.html. (Warning: this page is huge! Over 2 megabytes.) '21st Century Common Man' works for me. While it is a bit of a departure from the rest of the album proper (it somehow feels less romantic to me - God knows if anyone understands what I mean by that!), it still feels like Franke-era TD, which is always a good thing in my book. The bass line that starts off part 2 is excellent, and carries the song nicely. The final bonus track, 'Vigour' feels out of place. Is this a Jerome tune, or does it just feel like one? I don't see any indication in the liner notes that it was written by Jerome, but it just feels like one. It's not a bad track at all, but it just kind of feels like it was tacked on. Interestingly enough, here's what William Blake had to say about 'Vigour': Who in the same given time can produce more than many others, has VIGOUR; who can produce more and better, has TALENTS; who can produce what none else can, has GENIUS. Read into that whatever you will.... :) Anyway, to get on with the rating, 'AotH' pushes _Tyger_ up to a high 3 AS. And finally, I have another entry for the growing list of songs to feature lines from 'Tyger.' This one comes from the progressive rock group Mastermind. The CD is called _Tragic Symphony_ and the track is 'Tiger! Tiger!' Actually, closer examination reveals that this is a cover of a tune originally penned by Virgil Thomson, copyright 1967. Regardless, the Mastermind version rocks. MWood From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 5:32 pm Subject: Release date of Orb's TD Remix Really-From: sean > Speaking of the Orb, has anyone seen or heard anything > about that supposed CD Single coming out in the middle of > Feb? On Siren Music's 'Future Releases' webpage http://sirencd.com/future.htm They list the release date of the Orb TD remix as March 17. Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR http://www.topix.com/~sean 'I used to be indecisive, but now I just don't know' From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 10:44 pm Subject: Re: Wages of Fear Really-From: Dennis Nigbur On 05 Mar 97 10:01:23 EST tadream mailing list wrote: >Really-From: John Burek <72241.2313@C...> > > > >>>>It seems these are soundtracks. 'Colosseum' is a label releasing >>>all kinds of soundtracks. The movie titles here are the german ones. >>>'Feuerteufel' is 'Firestarter' (though not a correct translation, >>>but the appropriate german title for the film). I don't know which >>>movies are 'Faustrecht' and 'Ende der Angst' (which means 'end of fear'). >>>'Ende der Angst' sounds like the Sorcerer title (Sorcerer is a remake >>>of the french Wages of Fear, in german 'Lohn der Angst'). < > >The German 'Sorcerer' title was 'Atemlos vor Angst', if I'm not mistaken. > >--John Yes, that was exactly the title. Dennis From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 12:51 am Subject: introducing other people to TD Really-From: Armin Theissen > >Really-From: 'Lars R. Jones' <105411.3107@c...> > > >What do people put on them? Don't just post back and say 'well, it >depends', of course it does! I would really like to know what people put >on these tapes. (OK, mark, there's an activity-generating request for you; >but let's not get into a power-relationship theory discussion since we've >all probably had enough of that by now). Please list the tracks you use >(and maybe what you use for different 'types' of people). Are these tapes >your version of TD's greatest hits or ...? Do you 'tangentize' them (well, >chopping up longer pieces and mixing them around is as close to >'tangentizing' as most of us can come). Post some track listings please. >(parameters: two 120min tapes max) (1) A college of mine, about the same age (so 30+x) asked me recently whether I could give him a few TD CDs to listen to. In his flat I've seen a lot of tapes and CDs of Genesis, Nirvana, Def Leppard (because they come from his hometown....) and lots of stuff I can't remember anymore, and some TD: Ricochet, Thief, and Exit. He loves Ricochet. We agreed that I give him five CDS. At home, I decided to give him a historical overview. I dicided to skip the mid 70s (because he knows already Ricochet), no early Schmoelling (because he knows Exit and Thief) and no Logos and Underwater Sunlight because I tend to distribute these recordings all the time and I said: no, this time not. So in the end I dared to give him: Zeit (ouch, but it is one of my favourites), Force Majeure, Poland, Tyger (see comment on Zeit), and the Club Dream Mixes! (and since he doesn't know who the hell Klaus Schulze is, I gave him Dune as an extra). He is not yet through with all this, but he told me enthusiastically that he *loves* Zeit and Force Majeure. I'm curious about what he thinks about the rest. (2) In the last classes at school (beginning of 80s), we had the opportunity to introduce music of our choice to the music class. I was already a big TD fan, just experienced early Schmoelling TD live three times. And I introduced my shocked school fellows with Zeit (title Track), Ricochet part II, Rubycon part II, No Man's Land (Hyperborea), and, to everybody's complete astonishment (including our very good teacher) 'Midnight in Thula' (White Eagle). Everybody considered me lunatic, or even sick (after 'Zeit'). Soon I was termed the 'Tangerine Dreamer' and crazy. Just two or three weeks later, another Tatort episode with the infamous character 'Horst Schimanski' (very popular even today) was broadcasted on german Television, an episode entitled 'Das Maedchen auf der Treppe'. People went crazy about that beautiful music in there. I told them this was TD. And they did not believed me! Can't be! Can't be from this shitty band! Soon thereafter, everybody asked me for tape copies of 'Das Maedchen...'. I made copies for them, not without some 'Stratosfear' and 'Alpha Centauri' with it. I did not really made friends those days.... Cheers Armin Armin Theissen ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Armagh Observatory email: ath@s... College Hill http://www.astro.uni-bonn.de/~theissen Armagh, BT61 9DG Phone: (+44) 1861 522928 Northern Ireland Fax: (+44) 1861 527174 From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 6:30 pm Subject: Re: 10 Fave E-music Albums (only 3 TD-related) Really-From: TWeibre361@a... In a message dated 97-03-05 10:54:39 EST, you write: << 4) MUSIC FOR AIRPORTS by Brian Eno >> why this before Apollo? just curious.... tom w np: em:t 3394 From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 6:22 pm Subject: (Was Oxygene/Toxygene/The Orb/TD) NOW Orb+TD Really-From: sto@i... (Dr. Alan Stocker) >Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > >Speaking of the Orb, has anyone seen or heard anything >about that supposed CD Single coming out in the middle of >Feb? > >--------------------------------------------- >Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer The Orb were interviewed in Future Music this month - they are releasing a TD remix - they appear not to be fond of TD though... Alan From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 6:28 pm Subject: Re: Colosseum OST CDs Really-From: Mathew Hargreaves At 08:05 AM 3/5/97 +0000, you wrote: >From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) >Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 19:52:36 -0500 >Subject: Anyone hear of these? > >Really-From: Rich Maggio > >I found these titles when searching at >German Music Express. Any idea of what these >are? I have never heard them discussed on the list. >Are any of the worth owning? > ><> >$23.68 OST/TANGERINE DREAM -- ENDE DER ANGST >COLO820720 06/93 COLOSSEUM Add to Shopping Basket > >$23.68 OST/TANGERINE DREAM -- FAUSTRECHT >COLO430721 06/93 COLOSSEUM Add to Shopping Basket > >$23.68 OST/TANGERINE DREAM -- FEUERTEUFEL >COLO525120 06/93 COLOSSEUM Add to Shopping Basket ><> > >Thanks, >Rich Maggio Colosseum is the German arm of the record label Varese Sarabande. I suspect the titles are Wavelength, Near Dark, and Firestarter. It would be the titles Varese had control of in the U.S. and sublicensed to Germany. CHEER...Matt Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1511 Colosseum OST CDs HMller1095@a... Thu 3/6/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 6:35 pm Subject: Eloy (No TD content; for Armin) Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' I checked with my friend who is THE authority on progressive rock, and he said they're still around and are releasing an album soon. they have a website which gives the whole story. I don't have the URL at the moment. Scott From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 6:57 pm Subject: Re: D:-_-_-'Underwater Sunlight'-_-_- Really-From: sean Underwater Sunlight was the first TD album I ever bought. It had just been released, and I had heard Dolphin Dance on a Toronto radio program similar to 'Hearts of Space'. I was immediately reminded of the band's music from Risky Business, and decided that I had found a new favourite group (and a new hobby - finding all of their albums!). I loved Underwater Sunlight from the day I got it. I pushed it on my friends, most of whom failed to share my enthusiasm. Alas. In the end, I think I OVERplayed it. Like Phil, i don't listen to it much anymore. But I still think it's an excellent album. In particular, I love it for marking the return of Edgar's guitar, which I would soon discover had lain dormant for much of the preceding 6 years. It brought in power and a more 'human' sound at a time when the group was going totally digital. It's a marked improvement from the somewhat chilly sounding Le Parc. Dolphin Dance sounds a little chintzy now, sure, but on the whole the album stands up well. Song of the Whale One and Two in particular retain all of their power and beauty. Even Scuba Scuba provides great atmospherics. On the whole, I'd give it a 4AS. > What do you think, is this the Haslinger influence? Has he taken > over too much at this point? I don't think so. In fact, I'm not sure if Paul had much input into the composition of these tracks at all. The back of the album attributes them to Froese/Franke, leading me to believe that Paul came in after things were under way. I'm sure that the beautiful piano playing on Song of the Whale Part Two is all Haslinger though. > A thought just hit me; is this an unassociated soundtrack? I doubt it. I think the groundwork for the album was probably laid in late 1985, after Johannes left. Listen to the unreleased tracks by Froese and Franke on Dream Roots, that were composed during this period - these could have been tracks from Underwater Sunlight. If there are soundtrack-like qualities, that's probably becaus ethe group was doing so many of them during those years! Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR http://www.topix.com/~sean 'Thank God for Atheism' From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 6:55 pm Subject: STRACKS Really-From: Michael A Jean I've have NEVER heard of these...and I consider myself to be reasonably well informed....not even rough translations approximate anything remotely similar to any TD that I'm aware of. Why don't you drop them a line to find out more? Mike J From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 7:04 pm Subject: rednights/redheat Really-From: Michael A Jean I can second John B's comment that these are seperate films...I have seen both of them, and own a copy of Red Nights. They couldn't be more different sounding even though they are only a couple of years apart. Red Heat was a cheesy T$A flick...I don't even think TDs name was on the video box, but the music was unmistakable.... Red Nights is about an aspiring actor who moves to the West Coast, and falls in with a bad crowd, including a girl friend who is a porn star, and some drug dealers. The film is filled with excessive profanity, but the music is pretty decent, with longish sequencer passages...remotely similar to RED MORPHO in the DRC. I believe Single Man is an alternate title to another film, though the title escapes me at the moment... Mike J From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 7:22 pm Subject: TEntative answers Really-From: Michael A Jean Some answers to the following questions from Steve: Hi, All, I'm updating my discography and need the following info: o TYRANNY OF BEAUTY UK releases: was there only an AMP release with 'Quasar,' or is there one from TDI also? I BELIEVE both have Quasar. o What is the name of the Coma Virus album, and . . . are Coma Virus and Paul Haslinger one and the same, or a group of sorts? THe album is called HIDDEN. CV is a group which includes Loren Nerell (sp?) and another person. PH's name doesn't appear in the credits, but we KNOW for sure it is him... o What is the name of the C. Franke CD done for a Deepak Chopra shpiel? TRansformation of Mind, but it won't be out until August.... o What is the name of the compilation with PHAEDRA, RUBYCON and STRATOS- FEAR? (Did I get that right? If not, what exactly is on it, again?) I sure don't remember, but I have seen two different 3 packs (I think the other included cyclone and encore & ? o What countries has the C. Franke soundtrack, PERRY RHODAN: PAX TERRA been released in? Three that I know, of including Germany and Benelux (sp?). It is availaable in the US directly from SONIC IMAGES o What is the name of the second BABYLON 5 soundtrack? Message From Earth Mike J, Chicago Steven Feldman -- 33 Br From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 7:14 pm Subject: Re: Jimbo's UberCollection Really-From: Mark Filipak So tell me Jimbo, how'd it turn out? If it could use some cleanup (pops & clicks) or equalization I got the stuff to do that. Regards -- Mark tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: Jim Moore > > Since I've recently obtained access to a CDR Recorder, I've used it to > create my own 'rarities' album -- simply so I only have to handle 2 > CDs instead of a dozen CD's and albums. Here's my track listing: > Disc 1: > 1) Roaring of the Bliss > 2) A Time for Heroes (Short Version) > 3) Vigor > 4) Guitar Solo (from 1988) > 5) Alexander Square (extended mix) > 6) One Night in Medina > 7) I Just Want to Live My Life Without You > 8) Oriental Haze > 9) Beaver Town > 10) Mishiko > 11) Dreamtime (vocal version) > 12) Story of the Brave > 13) Timesteps (Chris Franke) > 14) Quasar > > Disc 2: > 1) Streethawk (single remix) > 2) Katja > 3) Speed > 4) Warsaw in the Sun (pts. 1&2) > 5) Quinoa > 6) Tyger ('92 remix) > 7) Purple Haze (single edit) > > If you're asking where all the other rarities and singles are, I either > have them in > other comps (70/90, etc.) or I don't have them at all (_Lost Story_, for > example). > > 'I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I > can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.' -- > Jack Handy From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 8:50 pm Subject: Anyone in Greece? Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' I'm trying to track down the exact date of the show TD did at the Lycabettus Theater in Athens in June of 1984. Can anyone out there help me? I have two month's worth of the newspaper H Kathmepinh (or something like that :-) but, since I can't read the language, I'm kind of out of luck. Scott Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1478 Re: Anyone in Greece? Mark Filipak Thu 3/6/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 7:35 pm Subject: NEW ORB ALBUM Really-From: Michael A Jean I hear that the ORB has a new album coming out next week... Does anyone know if the TD track might be appearing on it? Mike J Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1493 Re: NEW ORB ALBUM TWeibre361@a... Thu 3/6/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 9:27 pm Subject: Re: Check this out guys! DRC U.S. Release Really-From: Mark Filipak You're welcome. You should also send your wants to ProgTron in the future. Rajit can get anything and you will not beat his prices. I've found him to be an extra-special guy. He has TD boots also and a stock of really rare stuff -- I've been to his place (a storage locker in San Jose) and seen them. He has things that are way out of print, but he charges the usual price or less for them. ranjit@n... (Ranjit Padmanabhan) Regards -- Mark tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: 'Vincent Goudreault' > > Thanks Mark, for the CD Universe e-mail address. I think I am going to > cancel my order with CD Europe since it has been more than 3 months already > (and they were selling the Dream Root Collection for a whole lot more $$$... > > Regards > > C.B. Vincent Goudreault > online since early 93, TD fan since 77 > first exposure: Stratosfear, fave albums: Rubycon/Ricochet From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: Fooey on TD & The Orb; How About TD & Aphex Twin? Really-From: Steven Feldman >(Was Oxygene/Toxygene/The Orb/TD) NOW Orb+TD >Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 18:22:16 +0000 >From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) >Really-From: sto@i... (Dr. Alan Stocker) > >The Orb were interviewed in Future Music this month - they are releasing >a TD remix - they appear not to be fond of TD though... That's reassuring. I'm not too fond of The Orb and therefore am glad to find that they don't like TD especially because *that* might mean that TD isn't too keen on *them* and hence won't 'team up' with them on any projects. ;) I mean, I like FSOL (the FUTURE SOUND OF LONDON)'s LIFEFORMS double-CD, so TD's hobnobbing with FSOL doesn't bother me one bit, but ... The Orb? Feh. Now, with Aphex Twin, we'd really have something, though. Since 'Aphex Twin' is actually one guy, I'd love to see this band i.e. guy 'team up with' i.e. *join* TD! ;) :) :) -- Steven Feldman and Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1480 Re: Fooey on TD & The Orb; How About TD & Aphex T Mark Filipak Thu 3/6/1997 3 KB 1487 Re: Fooey on TD & The Orb; How About TD & Aphex T Grant Middleton Thu 3/6/1997 3 KB 1496 Re: Fooey on TD & The Orb; How About TD & Aphex T Paul Nagle Thu 3/6/1997 2 KB 1489 Re: Fooey on TD & The Orb; How About TD & Aphex T Mark Filipak Thu 3/6/1997 4 KB 1490 Re: Fooey on TD & The Orb; How About TD & Aphex T Mark Filipak Thu 3/6/1997 2 KB 1495 Re: Fooey on TD & The Orb; How About TD & Aphex T Grant Middleton Thu 3/6/1997 3 KB 1497 Re: Fooey on TD & The Orb; How About TD & Aphex T TWeibre361@a... Thu 3/6/1997 2 KB 1498 Re: Fooey on TD & The Orb; How About TD & Aphex T Grant Middleton Thu 3/6/1997 2 KB 1503 Re: Fooey on TD & The Orb; How About TD & Aphex T Paul Nagle Thu 3/6/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 11:33 pm Subject: Re: Anyone in Greece? Really-From: Mark Filipak tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' > > I'm trying to track down the exact date of the show TD did at the > Lycabettus Theater in Athens in June of 1984. Can anyone out there help > me? I have two month's worth of the newspaper H Kathmepinh (or > something like that :-) but, since I can't read the language, I'm kind > of out of luck. > > Scott If and when you find out, would you be so kind as to send it on to me. I almost finished your Virgin logo. It's beautiful. I'm going to do one plain and one with the background filled with a light 110 line screen like the original which should work well in a book. Tell me more about this book of yours when you have time. Is it going to be typeset? How many pages? I have a 1200 dot/inch printer that does a nice job. It can handle HP or Postscript. I've done a couple of small books on it. With hard tooth paper, it makes excellent stats for photolyth. Cheers -- Mark PS: When do you need the logo? From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 5, 1997 11:27 pm Subject: 'Red Heat' / 'Red Nights' Clarification Really-From: 'Harri Ikonen' 'Red Heat' (1985) is the story of an American woman (played by Linda Blair) who is captured by East Germans and then thrown into a prison. 'Red Nights' (1988) is about a young actor (Chris Parker) who goes to Hollywood to become a star, but doesn't quite make it. If I'm not entirely mistaken, both films were scored by TD. -- Harri Ikonen hikonen@m... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 1:01 am Subject: Re: Fooey on TD & The Orb; How About TD & Aphex Twin? Really-From: Mark Filipak RDJ and TD... gag! -- Mark (couldn't stand seeing _his_ face on TD CD) tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: Steven Feldman > > >(Was Oxygene/Toxygene/The Orb/TD) NOW Orb+TD > >Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 18:22:16 +0000 > >From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) > >Really-From: sto@i... (Dr. Alan Stocker) > > > > The Orb were interviewed in Future Music this month - they are > > releasing a TD remix - they appear not to be fond of TD though... > > That's reassuring. I'm not too fond of The Orb and therefore am > glad to find that they don't like TD especially because *that* might > mean that TD isn't too keen on *them* and hence won't 'team up' with > them on any projects. ;) I mean, I like FSOL (the FUTURE SOUND OF > LONDON)'s LIFEFORMS double-CD, so TD's hobnobbing with FSOL doesn't > bother me one bit, but ... The Orb? Feh. Now, with Aphex Twin, we'd > really have something, though. > Since 'Aphex Twin' is actually one guy, I'd love to see this > band i.e. guy 'team up with' i.e. *join* TD! ;) :) :) > > -- Steven Feldman and > From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 1:31 am Subject: NON TD but Synergy and Wendy Carlos to perform in NYC!!!!! Wahooo!!!!! Really-From: jeffrey@i... I know this is not TD related, but this kind of stuff doesn't happen to often so I though I would pass it along. Jeff - who will be there Stratta/Phillips Productions Presents BACH AT THE BEACON 'A Bach Music Festival at the historic Beacon Theatre in New York City' 'Bach at the Beacon' is the launching of a weekend of 'BACH,' the first major annual BACH FESTIVAL of it's kind in New York. Renowned producer and conductor, Ettore Stratta, and Pat Phillips have planned a unique and varied program bring together important artists from the Classical, Crossover and Jazz world to create a New York City happening! The Concerts will be hosted by Elliott Forrest of A&E Television Networks. For Carlos and Synergy fans, the highlight will be the April 5, Saturday evening concert as: WENDY CARLOS - the genius creator of 'SWITCHED-ON-BACH' will make her 'first stage appearance ever!' Her 1968 recording made history and became one of the best-selling classical records of all time. She will be performing with an ensemble of synthesists including LARRY 'SYNERGY' FAST! The weekend will also feature: Jazz/Classical Pianist Jacque Loussier and his Trio Harpsichordist/Conductor Anthony Newman The Brandemburg Collegium Ensemble Violinist Sergiu Luca Clarinetist Richard Stoltzman Recorder virtuoso Marion Verbruggen The Bach Aria Group Tickets can be purchased at: THE BEACON THEATRE BOX OFFICE (Cash Only) 74th and Broadway or TICKETMASTER Phone Charge & Outlets: (212)307-7171 Prices: $37.50, $30, $25, $20, $15 Tickets are on sale now! If for any reason you lose this message and need the information on it, I have posted all of the on The Artist Shop's Bulletin Board . Damn, I wish I were in New York! From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 5:56 am Subject: various Really-From: AslanFan1@a... Underwater Sunglight-5AS Along with Tangram, it ranks as the best of TDs work. Haslinger's presence was a breath of fresh air. First 6 tracks are, in my opinion, outstanding. I saw the 86 Albuquerque show and Paul and Edgar traded lead guitar on an extended Ride on the Ray that was probaby my all-time favorite concert section of any band. Pauls piano solo was stirring, as well. What's the word on Oasis? Is there a domestic CD (US) coming and on what label? Still can't find Tangram SBM :-( Miramar has released 'The Brick' It's a 5cd 'grouping' of their previously released grammy nominated discs (Mixes, Tyranny, Tides, Volts, Rockoon, according to Miramar. No new music or booklet. Doesn't sound all that appealing. Tower mail order lists it for $41 + shipping/handling. Still looking for folks wanting Rumplestiltskin cd. This is the one with the long box and poster. I'd like to trade for other hard to find TD items. Email if interested. As for Canadian toons, how bout 'TRIUMPH!' Can anyone tell me if TDI releases are going to be available in the United States? Also, what happened to Edgar's 'Heat Robinson' soundtrack idea? Last, any word on Babylon 5 (II)'s release and availability of Haslinger's Coma Virus. If anyone has Coma Virus, could they please describe it. Thanks! -Alan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1491 Re: various Vincent Goudreault Thu 3/6/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: (Date Unavailable) Subject: London Concert Article Really-From: G.K.Naughton@i... The March edition of _Sound on Stage_ magazine contains an interview with Edgar and Jerome/article about the Shepherds Bush concert, which has a fairly technical description of the gear setup used for the show, and some pictures from the concert and the soundcheck. Also included is the first installment of a massive four-part article on Pink Floyd's live setup, which mentions the interesting rumour that the 1974 Wembley Arena concert which has long been in circlutation as a radio broadcast tape, is soon to be released as an official live LP. Glynn Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1488 Re: London Concert Article Rainer Rutka Thu 3/6/1997 2 KB 1529 Re: London Concert Article Christian von_Toerne Fri 3/7/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 5:34 pm Subject: td sampler Really-From: Armin Theissen > >Really-From: Michael A Jean > > >Some answers to the following questions from Steve: > > > o What is the name of the compilation with PHAEDRA, RUBYCON and STRATOS- > FEAR? (Did I get that right? If not, what exactly is on it, again?) > > It is simply called 'Tangerine Dream' - there is no title. It contains the complete Phaedra album plus one part of Rubycon (I guess part I) and the title track Stratosfear. Armin Armin Theissen ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Armagh Observatory email: ath@s... College Hill http://www.astro.uni-bonn.de/~theissen Armagh, BT61 9DG Phone: (+44) 1861 522928 Northern Ireland Fax: (+44) 1861 527174 From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Dec 31, 1969 10:59 pm Subject: TD European Tour 97 defered? Really-From: Michal Balcerzak I heard of TD European Tour 97 is defered till fall. Can anyone prove it, or deny? Balcer From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 6:11 pm Subject: td tour Really-From: ath@s... (Armin Theissen) >>>>>>>>>>>>> Really-From: Michal Balcerzak I heard of TD European Tour 97 is defered till fall. Can anyone prove it, or deny? Balcer <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< don't make jokes like that! I've got my flight home to Germany arranged and everything set up except the tickets my friends in Bonn are going to buy this weekend. Armin From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 11:30 am Subject: Re: Fooey on TD & The Orb; How About TD & Aphex Twin? Really-From: 'Grant Middleton' > Really-From: Steven Feldman > them on any projects. ;) I mean, I like FSOL (the FUTURE SOUND OF > LONDON)'s LIFEFORMS double-CD, so TD's hobnobbing with FSOL doesn't > bother me one bit, but ... The Orb? Feh. Now, with Aphex Twin, we'd > really have something, though. > Since 'Aphex Twin' is actually one guy, I'd love to see this > band i.e. guy 'team up with' i.e. *join* TD! ;) :) :) That'd be the ultimate crap of all time. Richard James is the most overrated exponent of electronic music today, with the Orb running a very close second. So many of the current 'ambient' crew write excellent stuff then TOTALLY screw it up by putting inappropriate samples or lead lines over the top. I'm thinking in particular of the Orb's use of 'Loving You' on an otherwise dreamy track (no pun intended). Why can't they just use a bit of discrimination, rather than releasing everything that they come up with. I'm sure it probably sounds pretty good 'eccied-up' in the chill-out room at a rave but it leaves me cold under normal circumstances. Other bands which I feel are guilty of this include Orbital and Banco de Gaia. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _.^~~~~~\ Grunt ! [, @ E-Mail : grantm@d... \______/ /\ /\ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1496 Re: Fooey on TD & The Orb; How About TD & Aphex T Paul Nagle Thu 3/6/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 12:55 pm Subject: Re: London Concert Article Really-From: Rainer Rutka On 6 Mar 1997, tadream mailing list wrote: > Really-From: G.K.Naughton@i... > > > The March edition of _Sound on Stage_ magazine contains an > interview with Edgar and Jerome/article about the Shepherds Bush > concert, which has a fairly technical description of the gear setup > used for the show, and some pictures from the concert and the > soundcheck. Something more: I got a single-cd from the Shepherds Bush concert as a limited edition (2000 copies). It includes 2 tracks. It's nice. Are where more 'special'-singles from the tour ? All the best. C ya in munch at the concert ?! Rainer Rutka - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 11:57 am Subject: Re: Fooey on TD & The Orb; How About TD & Aphex Twin? Really-From: Mark Filipak Gee Grant. Except for RDJ, you trashed all my favorites except one: Guru Guru. Probably an just oversight on your part. -- Mark :-) tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: 'Grant Middleton' > > > Really-From: Steven Feldman > > > them on any projects. ;) I mean, I like FSOL (the FUTURE SOUND OF > > LONDON)'s LIFEFORMS double-CD, so TD's hobnobbing with FSOL doesn't > > bother me one bit, but ... The Orb? Feh. Now, with Aphex Twin, we'd > > really have something, though. > > Since 'Aphex Twin' is actually one guy, I'd love to see this > > band i.e. guy 'team up with' i.e. *join* TD! ;) :) :) > > That'd be the ultimate crap of all time. Richard James is the most > overrated exponent of electronic music today, with the Orb running > a very close second. So many of the current 'ambient' crew write > excellent stuff then TOTALLY screw it up by putting inappropriate > samples or lead lines over the top. I'm thinking in particular of > the Orb's use of 'Loving You' on an otherwise dreamy track (no > pun intended). > > Why can't they just use a bit of discrimination, rather than > releasing everything that they come up with. I'm sure it > probably sounds pretty good 'eccied-up' in the chill-out room > at a rave but it leaves me cold under normal circumstances. > > Other bands which I feel are guilty of this include Orbital and > Banco de Gaia. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > _.^~~~~~\ > Grunt ! [, @ E-Mail : grantm@d... > \______/ > /\ /\ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 12:25 pm Subject: Re: Fooey on TD & The Orb; How About TD & Aphex Twin? Really-From: Mark Filipak tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: Mark Filipak > > Gee Grant. Except for RDJ, you trashed all my favorites except one: > Guru Guru. Probably an just oversight on your part. -- Mark :-) Woops, I meant Loop Gura of course. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 1:33 pm Subject: Re: various Really-From: 'Vincent Goudreault' On Mar 6, 12:56am, tadream mailing list wrote: > Subject: various > Really-From: AslanFan1@a... > > (...) > > Last, any word on Babylon 5 (II)'s release and availability of Haslinger's > Coma Virus. If anyone has Coma Virus, could they please describe it. Thanks! > The Bab 5 II soundtrack has been available for some time already. I got mine from SuperCollector (supercollector@s...) for $15.99 + shipping. They also have a LOT of Bab 5 collectible (including UK Bab 5 video tapes of the first 2 seasons) and several hard to find soundtracks. C.B. Vincent Goudreault online since early 93, TD fan since 77 first exposure: Stratosfear, fave albums: Rubycon/Ricochet From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 8:42 pm Subject: Track Info Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' Many thanks to John and Mark for their occassional series of Track Listings for tours/live shows. I am adding some small pieces of information to them, such as which album each track comes from. This has lead to a request for information. Where do the following tracks, from the 1992 NA tour, come from : 1) Waterborne 2) Story of the Brave (only on the CD-5?) 3) One Night in Medina (only on some single?) And, by the way, does the unreleased track 'Nomad' which was played at Shepherd's Bush appear on the Oasis video? Many Thanks, --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi S3I Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) E-mail : cordrey@m... cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1499 Re: Track Info m.schaffer@i... Thu 3/6/1997 3 KB 1501 Re: Track Info Craig R. J. Cordrey Thu 3/6/1997 3 KB 1504 Re: Track Info m.schaffer@i... Thu 3/6/1997 3 KB 1512 Re: Track Info feldon@n... Thu 3/6/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 1:45 pm Subject: Re: NEW ORB ALBUM Really-From: TWeibre361@a... In a message dated 97-03-05 19:06:37 EST, you write: << I hear that the ORB has a new album coming out next week... Does anyone know if the TD track might be appearing on it? >> its out...and no, the td remix does not appear on it.... on another matter: i know some of you on the list are subscribers to Beyond the Horizon...If youve gotten your new issue, im sure youve read the open letter to subscribers, where the magazine responds to the allegations made by TD on their web site...anyone care to comment? tom w np: dark - dark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 1:54 pm Subject: Re: D : Underwater Sunlight Really-From: PNaunton@a... In a message dated 97-03-04 06:49:31 EST, you write: << 5AS. >> Craig, I see we don't _quite_ agree on this one. Oh, well. I used to like it at one time. I'm not sure why I lost the enthrall, but hey, c'est la vie. I do respect your opinion, and your points are well made. Phil Naunton From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 2:08 pm Subject: Re: Fooey on TD & The Orb; How About TD & Aphex Twin? Really-From: 'Grant Middleton' tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: Mark Filipak > > Gee Grant. Except for RDJ, you trashed all my favorites except one: > > Guru Guru. Probably an just oversight on your part. -- Mark :-) > > Woops, I meant Loop Gura of course. I always thought it was 'Loop Guru'. Oh well... However, I DO most certainly like Guru Guru (the whacky '70s drugged out meandering trancey kinda thing). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _.^~~~~~\ Grunt ! [, @ E-Mail : grantm@d... \______/ /\ /\ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 9:05 pm Subject: Re: Fooey on TD & The Orb; How About TD & Aphex Twin? Really-From: Paul Nagle On Thu, 06 Mar 1997 11:30:48 +0000, you wrote: >Why can't they just use a bit of discrimination, rather than >releasing everything that they come up with. I'm sure it Just like our heroes Edgar & Co, huh? 8-) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ ------- Paul Nagle - paul@s... www.softroom.demon.co.uk (Upd. 06/03/97) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ ------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 2:23 pm Subject: Re: Fooey on TD & The Orb; How About TD & Aphex Twin? Really-From: TWeibre361@a... In a message dated 97-03-06 08:26:13 EST, you write: << Why can't they just use a bit of discrimination, rather than releasing everything that they come up with. kinda sounds exactly like what td has been doing.... tom w np: dark - dark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 2:56 pm Subject: Re: Fooey on TD & The Orb; How About TD & Aphex Twin? Really-From: 'Grant Middleton' > Really-From: Paul Nagle This is fairly off-topic, but are you the Paul Nagle of UK electronic musician fame (appearing in E&MM circa early '80s) ? If not, please ignore my insane ramblings. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _.^~~~~~\ Grunt ! [, @ E-Mail : grantm@d... \______/ /\ /\ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1503 Re: Fooey on TD & The Orb; How About TD & Aphex T Paul Nagle Thu 3/6/1997 2 KB 1560 Re: Fooey on TD & The Orb; How About TD & Aphex T Andrew J. Rozsa Sat 3/8/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 2:46 pm Subject: Re: Track Info Really-From: m.schaffer@i... > > Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > > > Many thanks to John and Mark for their occassional series > of Track Listings for tours/live shows. I am adding some > small pieces of information to them, such as which album > each track comes from. This has lead to a request for > information. Many thanks for the compliment! Next week we should be able to bring you more delights :) > Where do the following tracks, from the 1992 NA tour, come > from : > 1) Waterborne This appears on the Oasis video. > 2) Story of the Brave (only on the CD-5?) At first, that was the only place it appeared, but when the UK version of TOTT was eventually released (on the Coast To Coast label), it was included as a bonus track on there (and I believe it's also on the TDI version.) > 3) One Night in Medina (only on some single?) On the single 'I Just Want To Live My Own Life Without You' (is that right, or is it 'Rule'?) by Chi Choltrane. It also appears on the 'Mystery Tracks' boot, along with the instrumental version of the above track. > And, by the way, does the unreleased track 'Nomad' which > was played at Shepherd's Bush appear on the Oasis video? Perhaps surprisingly (it surprised me, anyway), it doesn't. So, it remains unreleased...........for now! > Many Thanks, No probs, Mark `Three Sheds' Schaffer From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: Re: Track Info Clarifications Really-From: John Burek <72241.2313@C...> Hello, >>Message text written by tadream mailing list >>>Many thanks to John and Mark for their occassional series >>of Track Listings for tours/live shows. I am adding some >>small pieces of information to them, such as which album >>each track comes from. This has lead to a request for >>information. Hey, that's a great idea! Perhaps we'll include album-source info too (sometimes it can be difficult to recall which album a given track comes from, with there being what, probably 300-400 TD tracks.) >>Where do the following tracks, from the 1992 NA tour, come >>from : >>1) Waterborne The Oasis video, I believe the third or fourth sequence. >>2) Story of the Brave (only on the CD-5?) On the TOTT CD-5, and on at least one of the European releases of TOTT. >>3) One Night in Medina (only on some single?) Yeah, this is on the hellishly-hard-to-find Chi Coltrane 'I Just Want to Rule My Own Life Without You' 3-track CD single, which also contains the title track (vocals by Ms. Coltrane) and an instrumental of the title track. It was released on, I think, Polydor Germany in '91; it was music for one of the Tatort TV shows, the one called 'Bis Zum Hals in Dreck.' >>And, by the way, does the unreleased track 'Nomad' which >>was played at Shepherd's Bush appear on the Oasis video? No, it's not on there, unfortunately. As of this moment, that track's still unreleased. Cheers, John Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1505 Re: Track Info Clarifications Craig R. J. Cordrey Thu 3/6/1997 3 KB 1506 Re: Track Info Clarifications John Burek Thu 3/6/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 10:07 pm Subject: Re: Track Info Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > Really-From: m.schaffer@i... > > Many thanks for the compliment! Next week we should be able > to bring you more delights :) I look forward to it. > > 1) Waterborne > This appears on the Oasis video. Really? Four and a half years after it was first played on tour? Is the video 'version' a straight copy or perhaps a reworking of the same theme? >> 'Nomad' > Perhaps surprisingly (it surprised me, anyway), it doesn't. > So, it remains unreleased...........for now! Another five year wait, perhaps? --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi S3I Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) E-mail : cordrey@m... cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1504 Re: Track Info m.schaffer@i... Thu 3/6/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 3:01 pm Subject: Babylon / CV Really-From: Michael A Jean Tangram SBM is defintiely available at Tower..I saw 5 copies just yesterday... Babylon 5 Messages from Earth is currently available directly from sonicimages at www.sonicimages.com along with anything else by C. Franke (It's his website for God's sake) :) Coma Virus is available from www.soleilmoon.com...look under the side effects section...It is very dark ambient stuff...much more like LIGHTWAVE's Mundus...CD than WWR or FP. The price is only 12.99. I too have often wondered what became of HEAT ROBINSON...oh well... Mike Jean From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 10:05 pm Subject: Re: Fooey on TD & The Orb; How About TD & Aphex Twin? Really-From: Paul Nagle On Thu, 06 Mar 1997 14:56:02 +0000, you wrote: >This is fairly off-topic, but are you the Paul Nagle of UK >electronic musician fame (appearing in E&MM circa early '80s) ? Correct apart from the 'fame' word... 8-) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ ------- Paul Nagle - paul@s... www.softroom.demon.co.uk (Upd. 06/03/97) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ ------- Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1560 Re: Fooey on TD & The Orb; How About TD & Aphex T Andrew J. Rozsa Sat 3/8/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 3:48 pm Subject: Re: Track Info Really-From: m.schaffer@i... > Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > > > > 1) Waterborne > > This appears on the Oasis video. > Really? Four and a half years after it was first played on > tour? Is the video 'version' a straight copy or perhaps a > reworking of the same theme? A reworking. > >> 'Nomad' > > Perhaps surprisingly (it surprised me, anyway), it doesn't. > > So, it remains unreleased...........for now! > Another five year wait, perhaps? Maybe, maybe not - remember what was on the back of 'Shepherd's Bush'? Who'd bet right now against them appearing PDQ on an album? And who's to say Nomad won't appear there either? Mark Schaffer From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 10:51 pm Subject: Re: Track Info Clarifications Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > Really-From: John Burek <72241.2313@C...> > > Hey, that's a great idea! Perhaps we'll include album-source info too (sometimes > it can be difficult to recall which album a given track comes from, with there > being what, probably 300-400 TD tracks.) That's where my CD Database comes in handy, you see. Of course, I've only put in the stuff I've got, so I have to ask the occassional question on some tracks. > The Oasis video, I believe the third or fourth sequence. Two people have said this now, so I guess it must be true. Whay have they kep this track for four-and-a-half years and just released it now, I wonder? --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi S3I Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) E-mail : cordrey@m... cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: Re: Track Info Clarifications Really-From: John Burek <72241.2313@C...> Craig, >>> The Oasis video, I believe the third or fourth sequence. >>Two people have said this now, so I guess it must be true. >>Why have they kep this track for four-and-a-half years and >>just released it now, I wonder? Good question. My theory (based on no fact whatsoever other than what my ears tell me) is that most or all of the music for 'Oasis' was composed back around the time of '220 Volt'--just judging from the instrument sounds used. Also, the 1991 copyright date on the back of the Oasis video, if indeed that applies to the actual music, would back that up. Maybe Miramar and Camera One were working together to produce Oasis in the early 90s (as they did collaborate on Canyon Dreams), the project got shelved at the time, and only could be released by Camera One for whatever reason after TD left Miramar? Just another theory. --John From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 5:25 pm Subject: Re: Fooey on TD & The Orb; How About TD & Aphex Twin? Really-From: 'Grant Middleton' > >This is fairly off-topic, but are you the Paul Nagle of UK > >electronic musician fame (appearing in E&MM circa early '80s) ? > > Correct apart from the 'fame' word... > 8-) Most cool ! Are you still into analogue TDifications ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _.^~~~~~\ Grunt ! [, @ E-Mail : grantm@d... \______/ /\ /\ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 4:49 pm Subject: Re: Various Data Needed for TD Pocket Discography Really-From: 'Robin A.Seed' At 12:33 4/3/97 EST, you wrote: >Really-From: Steven Feldman > > >Hi, All, > I'm updating my discography and need the following info: > > o TYRANNY OF BEAUTY UK releases: was there only an AMP release with > 'Quasar,' or is there one from TDI also? TDI 002 with Quasar, also Limited Edition. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 9, 1997 2:39 am Subject: Introduction Really-From: gary.cresswell1@v... Hi I joined this mailing list just a week ago (have sent 1 hasty message). I thought maybe I should introduce myself. My name is Gary (Gaza) living in Lichfield England (thats about 15 miles North of Birmingham) I have been into Tangerine Dream since about 1979. I prefer the virgin years, but still enjoy the new music although the Dream Mixes is the most exiting Ive heard from TD for a long time. I have collected over 50 Tangerine Dream Albums. have seen them 4 time in concert 1981, 1982, 1986, 1990 or 91. Through there music I also have albums by Mark Shreeve, Steve Jollife, Johannes Schmoelling, Klaus Schulze, Peter Baumman, and the Brilliant Chris Franke who has only let me down once with the appalling Raven Soundtrack. I am 30ish years old. I have found reading your letters very interesting. Untill I got on the Net (last December) It was very difficult to get news as to what was going on with TD etc, my only source of information being Compact Disc Services of Dundee Scotland (no this is not an advertisement) Who in the hope of a sale used to send me info on new releases. If anyone is interested they have copies of the Sheperds bush CD (2000 limited edition). Finally a question has anyone seen the Dream Mix Video? (My copy is on order) if so what do you think. Personally I hope its better than Three phases which though OK I would have liked less present and more past. Cheers Gaza Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1513 Re: Introduction feldon@n... Thu 3/6/1997 2 KB 1514 Re: Introduction feldon@n... Thu 3/6/1997 2 KB 1571 Re: Introduction PhilPDX@a... Sat 3/8/1997 2 KB 1573 Re: Introduction gary.cresswell1@v... Sat 3/8/1997 3 KB 1583 Re: Introduction TheSmitter@a... Sat 3/8/1997 2 KB 1618 Re: Introduction PNaunton@a... Mon 3/10/1997 2 KB 8212 Introduction John Von Pey Fri 10/31/1997 4 KB 8226 Re: Introduction PNaunton@a... Sun 11/2/1997 3 KB 8412 Re: Introduction John Von Pey Wed 11/5/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 11:11 am Subject: PLEASE -UNSUBSCRIBE ALREADY!!!!!!! Really-From: kman@m... I've sent over 20 messages to unsubscribethe past 5 days to majordomo. HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE? My e-mail is needed for urgent business and is getting clogged up! PLEASE SOMEBODY! I'll have to keep doing this till it gets through! Once again Unsubscribe tadream kman@d... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 7:33 pm Subject: Colosseum OST CDs Really-From: HMller1095@a... Ende der Angst, Feuerteufel, and Faustrecht are Wavelength, Firestarter, and Three O'Clock High, respectively - definitely. Since 99% of all films shown in Germany are dubbed, they also use German titles for the films. Three O'Clock High was subtitled Terror in der Highschool. The CDs mentioned certainly bear the original English titles - so there won't be any difference. Re: Red Nights and Red Heat - I think everything's said, two different but nearly equally bad movies. Red Heat is, IMO, the worst film TD ever did a soundtrack for - it's unbearable. Although the music is really not bad - and not released (excepting extracts on 70/90). Hans-Peter From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 7:32 pm Subject: Re: Track Info Really-From: feldon@n... At 03:07 PM 3/6/97 GB-EIRE, you wrote: >Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > >> Really-From: m.schaffer@i... >> >>> 'Nomad' >> Perhaps surprisingly (it surprised me, anyway), it doesn't. >> So, it remains unreleased...........for now! >Another five year wait, perhaps? I don't think you'll have to wait 5 years... unless you feel badly about buying b**ts ;) Morgan P.S. I didn't say I HAD a b**t of it, just rambling... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 7:38 pm Subject: Re: Introduction Really-From: feldon@n... At 06:39 PM 3/8/97 -0800, you wrote: >Really-From: gary.cresswell1@v... > >Hi >I have been into Tangerine Dream since about 1979. >I have collected over 50 Tangerine Dream Albums. >have seen them 4 time in concert 1981, 1982, 1986, 1990 or 91. >I am 30ish years old. Gee, so you were around 18 during 1982 concert? Damn, I was 6. >If anyone is interested they have copies of the >Sheperds bush CD (2000 limited edition). Yeah, there's a place here in Houston that has it. I'm not sure if I consider $16.95 a good price for 9 minutes of music though... I have Sheperd's Bush CD BTW. Morgan From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 8:12 pm Subject: Re: Introduction Really-From: feldon@n... >Yeah, there's a place here in Houston that has it. I'm not sure if I >consider $16.95 a good price for 9 minutes of music though... I have >Sheperd's Bush CD BTW. I mean 14 minutes of music. Morgan From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Dec 31, 1969 9:59 pm Subject: Get a good laugh :-) Really-From: Klaus_Beschorner@b... (Klaus Beschorner) >Edgar & Jerome after listening to a 1 hour lecture from a jurassic guy >about: 'Why 'Zeit' is the best TD album!!' > >This is accompanied with animated .gif images of the pair, with a >morphing effect that twists their faces into cheesy smiles. Believe it or not, but I believe I know the guy who triggered this joke. At least I'm pretty sure I do.. so do you, Chris, Peter ;-) And anybody who was backstage at the London concert... But then, there might be more of'em than just this one.. :-) anyway... it was a good laugh. Thanks for the hint ! -klaus- Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1570 Re: Get a good laugh :-) PhilPDX@a... Sat 3/8/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Dec 31, 1969 9:59 pm Subject: Ubercollection Really-From: Klaus_Beschorner@b... (Klaus Beschorner) >4) Boots - Are all boots produced by money-grabbing exploiters? Aren't >some produced by fans who want to make the music available for other >fans? (That'san honest question, BTW). If the latter, then why are there >so many boots, and so few 'fan compilations'? Ho Hum. There's a possibility in the middle : fans making stuff available for other fans and trying to cover their cost. Plus enough extra money to take out their spouse for a good meal to calm him/her down over the time spent on the project. The problem here is : very few fans sit 'at the well' of CD factories. So even if they put together a project, they'll have to pay one or two 'professional' intermediates. Which also answers your last question. -klaus- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 9:17 pm Subject: Re: TEntative Answers Really-From: 'Harri Ikonen' > Really-From: Michael A Jean > > Some answers to the following questions from Steve: > > o What is the name of the compilation with PHAEDRA, RUBYCON and > STRATOSFEAR? (Did I get that right? If not, what exactly is on it, > again?) > > I sure don't remember, but I have seen two different 3 packs (I think > the other included cyclone and encore & ? I actually picked this one up today: TANGERINE DREAM Disky VI 873772 1. Phaedra 16:43 2. Mysterious sembalance at the strand of nightmares 10:35 3. Movements of visionary 7:55 4. Sequent 'C' 2:17 5. Rubycon (part one) 17:16 6. Stratosfear 10:35 Tracks licensed from EMI int. Records Ltd. (P) & (C) 1996 Disky Communications Europe B.V. Marketed and distributed by Disky Communications Europe B.V Verlengde Lageweg 19, 1628 PM Hoom, The Netherlands. Photo: London Features Cover Design: Van Dijken, Enschede. Printed in Holland. I saw 'The 5CD Brick' for sale as well, but didn't pick it up because I already had the five albums. Nevertheless, I must admit I was a bit surprised to find it so soon -- usually TD albums appear here in Finland several months after the release. -- Harri Ikonen hikonen@m... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 3:41 pm Subject: Re: London Concert Article/Pink floyd Really-From: 'Francisco Salgado C.' tadream mailing list wrote: > Also included is the first installment of a massive four-part > article on Pink Floyd's live setup, which mentions the interesting > rumour that the 1974 Wembley Arena concert which has long been in > circlutation as a radio broadcast tape, is soon to be released as > an official live LP. > I owe a DAT tape of a digital recorded Pink Floyd concert dated 1.1.94 ( that is mentioned to be played in Europe)is this by chance that famous Wembley Arena concert ? I must say the recording ( 135 min) is fabulous in quality and covering a lot of classical P.F from Dark side of the Moon, The wall, Whosh you were Hers, Final Cut, etc... Francisco From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 10:05 pm Subject: SHEPHERD'S BUSH Concert TREE ANOUNCEMENT Really-From: 'Francisco Salgado C.' The First and Only Announcement for the DIGITAL/ANALOG tape tree for the Tangerine Dream concet at Shepherd's Bush, London, 11,30,1996 ====================================================== I am Francisco Salgado, I will be running this digital/analog tree for TD. This is the first and only announcement of the digital and analog tape tree for this concert that everibody would like to have attended and only the lucky ones did. Some persons have the possibility to do CD-R copies. I don't know how many are able to copy from DAT to CD-R, so depending on the people singning for this kind of media, it would be possible to organyze a particular sub-tree fro them. Preliminars =========== I was looking for a digital seed of this concert, and even I posted a message on this list without any charitable soul sending an answer. I had an analog tape that I have received from G.K.Naughton. This tape, although not bad, had some problems at the ends of sides ( a very heavy flutter) and the TDK CD-it tape used had some smalls dropouts so I was looking for a better sounding recording, but, as I said, nobody answer me. Well G.K Naugthon's tape was good enougth to spend some time improving it and see what would happend. I did a digital conversion to my hard disk PC using a Super-bit Mapping 20 bit A/D converter to have the better possible acurancy at 44.1Ksps. I took an small sample to use it as test sample and did some trials with a very good wave software ( Sound Forge 4). To that sample I did noise reduction, and a lot of trials with equalization settings, working on bass but also on some midle section having some anoying resonant frequencies that translated to a very unpleasant guitar sound. After a lot of trials and hearings through my Sehnnheiser headphones and through my B&W monitors I came with a good EQ curve. I trimmed those parts with impossible sound quality, did the noise reduction processing, the EQ and, finally, I did level adjustement using noise shaping and dithering techniques to mantain as much as possible the digital accurancy of sound and I came up with about 130 min of very good musical results. That fits comfortably on a 90m. DDS-DAT Tape ( 180 min) and should be recorded on two 90 min analog tapes for the analog part of this tree. I would like to thank Glynn for it's kindness giving us this recording and, of course, to Tangerine Dream for this fantastic performance. ( sorry I wasn't threre). I want to emphasize that I wouldn't like to see this work on a bootleg and I will do whatever should be done to avoid it. THIS IS A NON PROFIT EXCHANGE, so don't even ask for a payed copy. I make my living from my well-payed job, so I do tbis as a contribution to the spread of live musical performances of my all-times favourite band. If you are interested, please sign up for this tree, since it's an orgnyzed way to spread this recording without having to copy 200 or so copies myself. THE TREE 1. If you are signing up as a digital branch - the default is at least 4 clones. I will be asking each person what their set up is like. (ie. recorders, and can you do digital clones) Any person who cannot optically or coaxially (or AES/EBU) clone a show should sign up as a leaf only; or as DIGITAL to ANALOG branch, if he has a posibility to do a cassette copy from DAT. 2. If you are doing DAT or analog tape clones for this tree, please use the following guidelines: --Please use new tapes. --Please unpack the tape by fastforwarding and rewinding the tape prior to recording on it. --Please leave at least a one (1) minute recorded blank space leader at the beginning of the clone. This will also minimize dropouts for the tree. --Don't do analog copies at hig speed cloning. --Use the noise reduction method agreed with your child. I would like everybody to use Dolby C at least to keep genarational noise incrrease at a minimum rate. --Use Chrome Extra class or better tape ( Maxell XL-II, TDK SA etc). 3. If you are signing up for a branch. I am going to ask you how many people you can spin tapes ( CD-R) for people. 4. If you are receiving the tape from your parent, feel free to send your list to your parent to set up a trade for the show, or send blank cassettes, DAT or CD-R's for the show. It should be decided amomg yourselves. 5. If you are signing up as a leaf- meaning you have no optical, or coaxial cloning capabilities, then please help out your parent by supplying the blank for the show. 6. All members of the tree will be notified of the tree structure within a reasonable time period. I will make an announcement to this list when the tree structure is closed. Expect the tree structure to be emailed to you shortly following the closing announcement. 7. Please save this entire tree announcement for future reference. But PLEASE do not send me the entire announcement to sign up for the tree. 8. Rules to be inclusive of this tree: --No profiting from tree- No 2 for 1's trades. --Please don't give me email addresses that will change. SIGNING UP Important -- Please make one of the following subject headings in your subject in your e-mail to me: 'TD 11/30/96 D>D4' - meaning that you have DAT cloning capabilities and you'll clone this tape for 4 other people. D5 or D6 are also acceptable if you are willing. 'TD 11/30/96 D>CD-R4' Meaning you are able to do DAT to CD-R via digital means ( S/PDIF, AES/EBU) for 4 other people. 5 or 6 are also acceptable if you are willing. 'TD 11/30/96 CD-R>CD-R4' Meaning you are able to do CD-R to CD-R via digital means ( S/PDIF, AES/EBU) for 4 other people. 5 or 6 are also acceptable if you are willing. 'TD 11/30/96 D>CaS4'Meaning you are able to do DAT to analog cassete for 4 other people. 5 or 6 are also acceptable if you are willing. 'TD 11/30/96 CDR>CaS4'Meaning you are able to do CDR to analog cassete for 4 other people. 5 or 6 are also acceptable if you are willing. 'TD 11/30/96 CaS>CaS4'Meaning you are able to do analog to analog cassete for 4 other people. 5 or 6 are also acceptable if you are willing. 'TD 11/30/96 DAT LEAF'- meaning that you have NO DAT cloning capabilities nor analog cloning.and wish to receive a digital clone of this show. Expect to send a blank to your parent for the trade or some sort of trading agreement can be made with your parent. You may offer to let him/her borrow a master of yours for him/her to clone for the trade and send it back with your tape.Please, NO 2:1 trades allowed on this tree. 'TD 11/30/96 ANALOG LEAF' meaning that you have no cloning capabilities and wish to receive an analog clone of this show. Sign-up as leafs at your own risk. I will try to incorporate as many people as I can in this tree. Too many leafs can hinder the trees length, and growth. No CDR leafs are accepted, only CDR branches. For my sanity, please make your subject heading one of the choices above. It will make the tree go out faster and it will be easier to read. All sign-ups go to me at : If you are signing up for this tree, please include the following to me: For the branches Body of message = copy from here ~>| 1) Contact info.? Francisco Salgado D-D6 (Spain) 2) Cloning set-up? Hard Disk> Digital S/PDIF interface> DAT (TCD-D8) 3) # of copies again? 6 4) Average turn-around time? 5 days 5) Would you like to trade for the show or send a blank? trade 6) Would you accept a blank for the trade? yes 7) If you like to trade, can you send your list via email or do you have a URL for your list? I can send my list via email. 8) Can you clone optically or coaxially? Yes From DAT to DAT via PC (Just replace my information with your own. So, on the first line I want your first name, space, first letter of last name capitalized, period, space, less than sign, e-mail address, greater than sign, space, your role in tree (i.e., D-D), # of copies you'll be making, space,Country in parentesis, and state initials if you live in USA. And on lines 2-5 just answer the appropriate questions replacing my info. with your own.) * Preference at the D > D level will be moderated between # of copies you're willing to clone, # of decks you own or have access to, and your turn-around time. II. If you're going to sign-up as leaf then follow these instructions: Subject line = 'DGQ 9/27/96 DAT ( or ANALOG) LEAF' (as stated above) Body of message = copy from here ~>| 1) Contact info.? Jhon Doe D-L 2) Why can't you clone? I only have one DAT machine. 3) Do you have DAT masters, or no, I just trade? Yes I tape shows. 4) Would you like to trade for the show, or send a blank? trade if possible. 5) If you'd like to trade, can you send your DAT list via email or do you have a URL for your list? I can send my list via email. 6) Are you willing to send out masters/clones to your parent to trade for the show? (Knowing that you're master/clone will be returned with your new TD show) [Just replace mock information with your own. So, on the first line I want your first name, space, first letter of last name capitalized, period, space, less than sign, e-mail address, greater than sign, space, your role in tree (i.e., D-L), space, country and state initials if you live in USA in parentheses. And on lines 2-4 just answer the appropriate questions replacing mock info. with your own.] With leafs, there will be no preference if you trade or tape, send blank or send masters, etc. It just helps with setting people up together on the tree. You will all be included in the tree. I am just trying to optimize all the trades out there so that the tree will reach its furtherest growth and length. Please answer all the relevant questions if you can. I will accept up to around 200 sign-ups ( If there is many more response than 200 it would be possible to organize another round later) Expect a structure in your email box in about a week. Dream On Francisco Salgado Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1533 Re: SHEPHERD'S BUSH Concert TREE ANOUNCEMENT feldon@n... Fri 3/7/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 6, 1997 10:27 pm Subject: Re: Fooey on TD & The Orb; How About TD & Aphex Twin? Really-From: Mark Filipak Sorry for the confusion. Loop Guru can easily become Baby Beluga at 4AM. I may be a classically trained keyboardist (ie, computer), but when I'm tired... > Really-From: 'Grant Middleton' > > > Really-From: Mark Filipak > > > Gee Grant. Except for RDJ, you trashed all my favorites except > > > one: Guru Guru. Probably an just oversight on your part. -- Mark > > > :-) > > > > Woops, I meant Loop Gura of course. > > I always thought it was 'Loop Guru'. Oh well... > > However, I DO most certainly like Guru Guru (the whacky '70s > drugged out meandering trancey kinda thing). > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > _.^~~~~~\ > Grunt ! [, @ E-Mail : grantm@d... > \______/ > /\ /\ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 6:59 am Subject: Jarre Newsgroup Really-From: Matt Williams Seems I'm going to see Jarre in Wembly,I thought I would go on his mailing list and check out all the gossip ect.....can anyone tell me where I subscribe to ?. Cheers, Matt..... ------------- Matt Williams ------------- * matt@s... * * * * irc nicks: draft or jos * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 3:36 am Subject: Re: Jarre Newsgroup Really-From: Mark Filipak > Really-From: Matt Williams > > Seems I'm going to see Jarre in Wembly,I thought I would go on his > mailing list and check out all the gossip ect.....can anyone tell me > where I subscribe to ?. There is a 'jarre' list and a 'jarre-digest' list. Mail either of the following: subscribe jarre matt@s... subscribe jarre-digest matt@s... to: majordomo@c... (no subject). That's it. Enjoy -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: Re: Frippisizing Really-From: Robert Forman <73652.1423@C...> >>sorry if I go off, but here goes. Robert Fripp does Tangentize--just look at the first King Crimson<< Absolutely, and not just on Cadence and Cascade. And he took almost as much heat on it on 'Elephant Talk' as Edgar did/does on this list. Just for the record though, there is no 'Tangen...er 'Frippisizing' on the 'Great Deceiver' box set. (The one with the live shows) >>Bob<< From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: Re: Underwater Sunlight Really-From: Robert Forman <73652.1423@C...> Underwater Sunlight is, in my opinion, one of Tangerine Dream's best studio albums. It is also one of the most accessable. This is the album I use to 'introduce' a friend or acquaintance to TD. On several occasions I have given a tape of US to people about to embark on a long car trip. Approval rate is 100%. This is great music for sundown/twilight driving. Besides being one of my favorite TD albums musically, U.S. is also my favorite in format. If I had my druthers, all TD albums would have a long piece (In this case 'Song of the Whale') with perhaps two or three 'movements', and several shorter pieces. I was/am a big fan of Johannes Schmoelling, and was alarmed to hear that he had quit the band. What a releif then when U.S. came out and was so excellent. TD had lost a great musician in Johannes, but Paul Haslinger was an excellent replacement. Song of the Whale is a beautiful song. It really gives a feeling of being out in the ocean and the excitement of seeing a whale rise to the surface. It's a shame that this tune has never been performed live. The rest of the tunes on the album are also beautiful and evocative. My favorites are Dolphin Dance and Underwater Twilight. Ride on the Ray was especially good performed live with the Guitars of Edgar and Paul. The only 'problem' I have with U. S. is that it is one of a 'trilogy' of studio albums (along with Le Parc and Tyger) which forever relegated TD into the New Age bins at the record stores (at least, here in the United States). Up until Le Parc, TD were considered 'electronic' 'ambiant' or 'progressive'. But, I would say that these three are definately 'New Age' type albums (done right though) which I don't think can really be said about their previous, or later work. TD began appearing in the New Age section and havn't been able to extricate themselves despite some pretty un-New Age sounding music. But once catagorized, forever relegated. >>Bob<< From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 5:28 am Subject: 'Beyond The Horizon' Really-From: PNaunton@a... 6-Mar-1997 I just got my copy of 'Beyond The Horizon' in snail mail today. The 'An Open Letter To Subscribers' really made the hair stand up on the back of my neck. I knew this was coming, of course. I read parts of it here, back in October last year. It looks like the Froese/Beyond The Horizon battle lines are being set up as I write this. Anyone else have any thoughts? Phil Naunton Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1528 Re: 'Beyond The Horizon' Mark Filipak Fri 3/7/1997 3 KB 1532 Re: 'Beyond The Horizon' Capel Martyn Fri 3/7/1997 2 KB 1535 Re: 'Beyond The Horizon' Vic Rek Fri 3/7/1997 3 KB 1543 Re: 'Beyond The Horizon' TWeibre361@a... Fri 3/7/1997 3 KB 1551 Re: 'Beyond The Horizon' Plumer, Scott Fri 3/7/1997 3 KB 1554 Re: 'Beyond The Horizon' TWeibre361@a... Fri 3/7/1997 2 KB 1558 Re: 'Beyond The Horizon' Mark Filipak Sat 3/8/1997 2 KB 1559 Re: 'Beyond The Horizon' Aden P. Staring Sat 3/8/1997 3 KB 1564 Re: 'Beyond The Horizon' feldon@n... Sat 3/8/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 5:28 am Subject: Re: D:-_-_-'Underwater Sunlight'-_-_- Really-From: PNaunton@a... In a message dated 97-03-05 14:13:35 EST, you write: << > What do you think, is this the Haslinger influence? Has he taken > over too much at this point? I don't think so. In fact, I'm not sure if Paul had much input into the composition of these tracks at all. The back of the album attributes them to Froese/Franke, leading me to believe that Paul came in after things were under way. I'm sure that the beautiful piano playing on Song of the Whale Part Two is all Haslinger though. >> You're right, of course, re. Paul Haslinger's input. There is something going on here, though. It impresses me, perhaps incorrectly, that there is a distinct lack of cohesion is this work Although the pieces on the recording all have a flow of continuity, as far as the beginning, middle and end of each selection, there is no ensemble effort going on here. ie. everyone seems to be playing by himself instead of with the other members of the group. Therefore the promise of richer and more personal artistic possibilities in 'Underwater Sunlight' are severely compromised. The title itself has incredible vision possibilities, which end up being almost totally unexplored. Although the music is good, as far as it goes, it doesn't go nearly far enough, given the capabilities of these three masterful composer/musicians; Franke, Froese, and Haslinger. Phil Naunton From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 5:30 am Subject: gawdawful TD joke :) Really-From: Elana who? Here's one of those kinds of jokes that work much better spoken out loud to someone else than to be read from a printed page. I'll post it anyway. Every veteran TD fan remembers that part of 'Richochet' which sounds like some sort of exotic machinery... it sounds almost like a distorted human voice going 'doy-doy-doy-doy-doy-doy-doy...' OK! With that particular sound in mind, here's the joke: Q: How does a TD fan sell encyclopedias? A: 'door-to-door-to-door-to-door...' :) Whoops, here comes the Pun Patrol and they look armed and dangerous... time to make my escape now! -Elana ;-) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 6:02 am Subject: Re: 'Beyond The Horizon' Really-From: Mark Filipak Would it be too much to ask that someone who subs to 'Beyond the Horizon' very briefly relate what this is all about? I'm clueless and would appreciate a synopsis. Thanks in advance -- Mark tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: PNaunton@a... > > 6-Mar-1997 > > I just got my copy of 'Beyond The Horizon' in snail mail > today. The 'An Open Letter To Subscribers' really made the hair stand > up on the back of my neck. I knew this was coming, of course. I read > parts of it here, back in October last year. It looks like the > Froese/Beyond The Horizon battle lines are being set up as I write > this. > > Anyone else have any thoughts? > > Phil Naunton From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 6:11 am Subject: Re: London Concert Article Really-From: Christian von_Toerne Hi, I'd be intested about the technical side of the performance, could you copy the article or scan it? TIA, Chris From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 6:23 am Subject: my sampler Really-From: AslanFan1@a... nobody said how long the tape would be! ricochet excerpt stratosfear coldwater canyon excerpt cloudburst flight force majeure excerpt tangram set 1 excerpt diamond diary kiew mission logos excerpt white eagle hyperborea Charly the Kid yellowstone park song for the whale alchemy of the heart cat scan desert Drive radio city dolls in the shadow cool at heart the drive to hanover red roadster two bunch palms backstreet hero firetongues bride in cold tears towards the evening star Most annoying tracks At darwin's motel all of electonic meditation most of cyclone burning force Best 'extra' tracks from compilations valley of the sun silver scale Best compilation put together if you're looking for a sampler to share with friends that you can buy, hands down for my money The Dream Sequence is the best compilation. I bought it just to pass around. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 6:24 am Subject: dolphin smile Really-From: AslanFan1@a... I found the 12' single that includes both Dolphin Dance and Dolphin Smile in a used record shop for $.99. Couldn't pass it up. I like the track Dolphin Smile, but for the life of me can't figure out why it wasn't included on the Dream Roots release. Is this track available in digital on any legit or otherwise release? I've got no turntable! From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 8:33 am Subject: Re: 'Beyond The Horizon' Really-From: martyn@i... (Capel Martyn) This magazine gets better and better with each issue!!! It covers all the artists that I'm interested in. Especially Klaus Schulze, and now they are delving into Cluster which is fantastic. Cluster is a group I have known about for years, but have just grown to appreciate within the last year. Kudos to BTH. Keep up the great work. Maybe an article about ASHRA & Manuel Gottsching in the future? Martyn From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 9:38 am Subject: Re: SHEPHERD'S BUSH Concert TREE ANOUNCEMENT Really-From: feldon@n... At 11:05 PM 3/6/97 +0100, you wrote: >Really-From: 'Francisco Salgado C.' > > >The First and Only Announcement for the >DIGITAL/ANALOG tape tree for the Tangerine Dream >concet at Shepherd's Bush, London, 11,30,1996 >====================================================== > I am Francisco Salgado, I will be running this digital/analog tree >for TD. This is the first and only announcement of the digital and >analog tape tree for this concert that everibody would like to have >attended and only the lucky ones did. >Dream On >Francisco Salgado Sorry, this is just too complicated for me. You could send me a Jaz of the WAVE files and I can quite nicely go into mass production and burn them onto double CD-Rs, but I certainly can't do it for free. My cost would be $35 per copy (NO PROFIT!) I know someone who owns a burner who would be happy to sit night and day and make these things. He could make 48 discs (or 24 2-cd sets) a day. Morgan Marks feldon@n... P.S. SoundForge 4.0 is REALLY awesome. I'm using it to clean up the boot tape of Logos. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 10:09 am Subject: Sound Forge 4.0 (Was Concert Tape Tree) Really-From: 'Grant Middleton' > P.S. SoundForge 4.0 is REALLY awesome. > I'm using it to clean up the boot tape of Logos. I can only agree wholeheartedly ! I've been using Forge 4.0 for about 6 months now and there is simply no better sound editor available. Period. Unfortunately, it's non-real-time, but until I can afford Pro-Tools III for my home use, SF is quite sufficient. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _.^~~~~~\ Grunt ! [, @ E-Mail : grantm@d... \______/ /\ /\ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 1:30 pm Subject: Re: 'Beyond The Horizon' Really-From: Vic Rek > I just got my copy of 'Beyond The Horizon' in snail mail today. > The 'An Open Letter To Subscribers' really made the hair stand up on the >back of my neck. I knew this was coming, of course. I read parts of it >here, back in October last year. It looks like the Froese/Beyond The Horizon >battle lines are being set up as I write this. > > Anyone else have any thoughts? > Yes, I read this and it upset me. What is the deal with Froese and BTH? I wish TD management would understand what this magazine is really trying to accomplish. BTH is a must for any TD fan and especially those who enjoy the music of the solo musicians, off-shoots, and other related musicians and groups. For some reason which is still not clear, TD will not provide them with any official information. But BTH still manages to provide very good information which otherwise would be hard to come by. This publication is top notch and I'm sorry that this letter had to come about. I know a few of the people from BTH and they are very dedicated hardworking fans that do this for the fans. Vic From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: (Date Unavailable) Subject: TD and Kraftwerk Really-From: G.K.Naughton@i... Hello all, I'm curious. At the Schulze and TD concerts last year I saw quite a few people wearing Kraftwerk t-shirts, and the rumoured upcoming album seems to have caused quite a stir even on this list. What is the general attitude of TD fans to Kraftwerk? I would have assumed that it would be negative because of the way Kraftwerk approach synthesisers and electronics from precisely the opposite direction to TD - i.e. they allow the technology to dictate the music and make it cold and mechanical (which strikes me as a shallow and gimmicky approach), as opposed to TD who use synths in a much more grown up way - as a means to an end to create warm, rich textures. Chalk and cheese. For the record, I utterly, utterly loathe Kraftwerk. They wear nice suits, though. Glynn Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1537 Re: TD and Kraftwerk Craig R. J. Cordrey Fri 3/7/1997 4 KB 1538 Re: TD and Kraftwerk Plumer, Scott Fri 3/7/1997 2 KB 1556 Re: TD and Kraftwerk Sean Montgomery Fri 3/7/1997 2 KB 1539 Re: TD and Kraftwerk Richard Ingram Fri 3/7/1997 2 KB 1541 Re: TD and Kraftwerk Grant Middleton Fri 3/7/1997 3 KB 1544 Re: TD and Kraftwerk TWeibre361@a... Fri 3/7/1997 2 KB 1547 TD and Kraftwerk Armin Theissen Fri 3/7/1997 3 KB 1557 Re: TD and Kraftwerk Mark Filipak Fri 3/7/1997 3 KB 1566 Re: TD and Kraftwerk PNaunton@a... Sat 3/8/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 9:22 pm Subject: Re: TD and Kraftwerk Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' Good time to talk about this. Over the couple of weeks or so, I've been listening to some old Kraftwerk tapes I made about ten years ago : Trans Europe Express and Autobahn. I listened to them in the car, maybe twice each at most, and then they were relegated back into 'storage'. I enjoyed them, they were fun, but after two listens, and the start of the third, they had begun to wear thin. Contrast that with the TD tapes I from Lars a couple of weeks ago (4 of them) which I'm struggling through. Struggling from the point of view that I must listen to each at least three or four times before I move on to the next one. (I've only just started tape three). As Glynn said, KW and TD appraoch their music in totally different fashions. KW's cold, clinical, mechanical method is interesting at times, but too often seems shallow and 'tiny'. TD obviously try and fill as much of the air as possible with music and sounds (sometimes too much), using layer upon layer to create depth and atmosphere. It amazes me, listening to something Trans-Europe Express and, say, Logos, that KW actually has (had) four members compared with TD's three. What do those four guys do? Play one note each? EF, CF & JS play whole 'orchestras' of stuff in comparison, each generating more sound and music in a single chord than a whole KW track. Favourite KW album : The Mix. --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi S3I Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) E-mail : cordrey@m... cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 3:03 pm Subject: RE: TD and Kraftwerk Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' >What is the general attitude of TD fans to Kraftwerk? Hate 'em. Scott Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1556 Re: TD and Kraftwerk Sean Montgomery Fri 3/7/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 3:41 pm Subject: Re: TD and Kraftwerk Really-From: 'Richard Ingram' On Mar 7, 10:03am, tadream mailing list wrote: > Subject: RE: TD and Kraftwerk > Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' > > > >What is the general attitude of TD fans to Kraftwerk? > > Hate 'em. > > Scott >-- End of excerpt from tadream mailing list Like 'em a lot. Rich. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 3:59 pm Subject: Re[2]: 'Beyond The Horizon' Really-From: Brian_Kirby@p... >Really-From: Mark Filipak >Would it be too much to ask that someone who subs to 'Beyond the >Horizon' very briefly relate what this is all about? I'm clueless and >would appreciate a synopsis. Thanks in advance -- Mark {BtH Spokesman Mode ON} Have you seen the answer to FAQuestion #13 on the TD Homepage? Or perhaps the 'Newsticker' section stating that we are not an official news source? Or the links page, from which our names are conspicuously absent? That's a part of your answer. (Well, you said you wanted brief!) While we're on the subject, I'm going to try to stay out of this discussion for the most part. Not because I don't want to get involved, but I'd really like for this thread to evolve without me influencing it one way or another. I'll be glad to answer any direct questions, but most of the time I'm probably gonna lurk. For those of you who are subscribers, do let us know what you think, whether it be through written means or an EMail to this list, myself, or Mike Darnell (our publisher, whose address is listed on the masthead of the mag). Your thoughts may well reflect the future direction of BtH, so if you've got an opinion (a rarity on this list, to be certain ;-) ), let it loose. Thanks, B. Kirby BtH Distribution Manager {BtH Spokesman Mode OFF} From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 4:21 pm Subject: Re: TD and Kraftwerk Really-From: 'Grant Middleton' > Really-From: G.K.Naughton@i... > stir even on this list. What is the general attitude of > TD fans to Kraftwerk? I would have assumed that it would > be negative because of the way Kraftwerk approach synthesisers > and electronics from precisely the opposite direction to TD - > i.e. they allow the technology to dictate the music and make > it cold and mechanical (which strikes me as a shallow and > gimmicky approach), as opposed to TD who use synths in a much > more grown up way - as a means to an end to create warm, rich > textures. Chalk and cheese. I CANNOT agree that 'Autobahn' is cold and mechanical. It contains some of the most beautiful electronic music ever made. It's one of my most listened-to albums. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _.^~~~~~\ Grunt ! [, @ E-Mail : grantm@d... \______/ /\ /\ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 3:59 pm Subject: remastered Underwater Sunlight Really-From: 'Dr. George D. Choksy' Hoi guys. Yes, there is a recent remaster of the wonderful 'Underwater Sunlight' on the Sequel label, circa 1995. It's worth finding. The sound quality is mind blowing. Groove on. GC From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 5:16 pm Subject: Re: 'Beyond The Horizon' Really-From: TWeibre361@a... In a message dated 97-03-07 00:30:40 EST, you write: << I just got my copy of 'Beyond The Horizon' in snail mail today. The 'An Open Letter To Subscribers' really made the hair stand up on the back of my neck. I knew this was coming, of course. I read parts of it here, back in October last year. It looks like the Froese/Beyond The Horizon battle lines are being set up as I write this. Anyone else have any thoughts? >> well, i asked the same question a few days ago, so ill start with my 2 cents...first off, battle lines are really unnecessary because froese doesnt have a pot to piss in...if he doesnt like what they write about him, tough shit...and if hes so upset, why is the first ad in the mag for his latest disc? at this point, he should be happy that someone still gives a shit about him, considering the enormous quantity of quality music out there...he should be happy that there still exists a hard core group of fans, and an adoring magazine (lumps and all)...if he cant take criticism, maybe hes in the wrong business...as to the allegations that somehow the mag is somehow making a buck off him: aint he making a buck off us? so what if bth is re-selling his discs? he still get his cut; or conversely, why doesnt he sell his stuff himself? in end effect, the whole thing is kinda silly and pointless on froese's part because now the mag is gonna start covering other artists who will only make him even more irrelevant... let the flames begin.... tom w np: hia - freefloater From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 5:34 pm Subject: Re: TD and Kraftwerk Really-From: TWeibre361@a... In a message dated 97-03-07 08:59:18 EST, you write: << For the record, I utterly, utterly loathe Kraftwerk. They wear nice suits, though. >> lets just say i beg to differ and believe exactly the opposite... i dont think u can compare these two groups anyway...im gonna leave it at this, because this thread could get ugly.... tom w From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 8, 1997 2:43 am Subject: re: kraftwerk and TD Really-From: Thomas Fanger Hi all, Although apparently TD's stuff seems to be more complex, Kraftwerk are really the masters of playing the right note at the right time. The number of simultaneously played sounds is no indicator for the quality of music. Kraftwerk is about the fascination of technology, whereas TD seems to have a more 'romantic' attitude. To me Kraftwerk is the most sexy and most funky synth band ever. They also have a great sense of humour. Although I have to admit Kraftwerk never touched my soul as deep as TD in their best moments. Cheers, Thomas From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 6:34 pm Subject: Beyond the Horizon vs. Froese Really-From: dbrewer@a... I am also a subscriber to BtH, and I must say that even though this situation is most unfortunate, maybe it's not all that surprising. I've really enjoyed reading BtH since issue 1, and relished the information contained within. I also noticed that the reviews listed were rather mixed (especially as time went on). Now, don't get me wrong, I like the idea of being totally honest with reviews. When I first joined, I almost expected them to laud every single note that TD writes, like the Tangible Dream did. I was glad to see that they didn't, since it makes more sense for Tadream to laud themselves, and the fans to have more mixed reactions. But lately, BtH has gone from mixed to almost outrightly negative. I respect their views, even though I may not agree with all of them. And this negativity *seems* to be directed only at TD's output, while nearly everything else discussed (from solo artists, etc) *seems* to be lauded almost everytime. I want to stress the word 'seems', since it's only the impression I personally get from reading. I know there has been some less favorable things said about Franke and others, but at least less-harsh words were used, and still got the point across without making it look like a personal attack (like referring to TotT as 'utterly abyssmal'; directly quoting here, if my memory serves me correctly). Needless to say, I don't take their reviews into as much consideration as I used to when I go to buy TD albums. (except for things like _Dream Music_ and _Tangerine Ambience_, blech!) Another point is Froese's end of the story. I read that he at least used to not give a crap what critics or fans thought about his music (which is what I figure most artists do). But now, the human Froese gets defensive because a fanzine repeatedly writes negative things about his music. It's almost like having a child that you're proud of, and having people you thought were your friends repeatedly tell you, 'That kid of yours sure is damn ugly!' If a stranger tells you this, you probably couldn't care less, and you write the person off as a stupid ass. But if you keep hearing it over and over from people including friends, you're going to get defensive. It's human nature when you are attacked like that. In the beginning of BtH, it looked like they had a great (although detached) relationship with the band. This could've led to great things like getting backstage access at shows, offers for rare things like posters or music or videos or whatever. Now it looks like these possibilities have been destroyed. The backstage access is what I really would have wanted. My first show was the NA tour in '92, so I just missed the opportunity for such a thing since the TDIFC had just dissolved only a few months before. At least, I got to shake Edgar's hand and tell him I thought the show was great, as the group was rushing to their bus to return to California. I would have loved to sit and chat about music for a while with him. In closing, I want to make clear that I do not laud every minute of TD's music, but I find very few times to say anything outrightly bad about it. I think it has some stronger times and some weaker times, but I'll always enjoy it. Still, as long as BtH continues to give info about TD, I will continue reading. I'm not really much interested the other artists covered, besides Froese, Haslinger, Schmoelling, Jolliffe and a lot of Franke's stuff, but I still like reading some of the things about them as well. And maybe reading will get me interested in them, but TD will always be *the* group for me. Period. I think this is the most I've ever said on the mailing list so far! :-) Dave Brewer (Hmmm...maybe I should send this to BtH for them to print in the next issue...) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 8, 1997 1:34 am Subject: TD and Kraftwerk Really-From: ath@s... (Armin Theissen) I used to like Kraftwerk a lot. No matter whether electronic music sounds cold, cool, or warm: as long as you feel that the musicians have really fun in doing it! And Kraftwerk did. My first exposure to Kraftwerk was my first exp. to electronic music anyway: Autobahn! The big brother of a friend of mine had the Autobahn double Vinyl with tracks like 'Ruckzuck' and 'Stratovarius', and I found them really 'cool'! 'Radioactivity' and 'Trans Europa Express' are pretty cool, too. And we had a few good laughs with lyrics like 'Aus des Weltalls Ferne funkeln Radiosterne...' or 'Schaufensterpuppen' (some of you native english speaking people try to say this: 'Schau-fen-ster-puppen'). With TEE and moreover the subsequent 'Die Mensch Maschine' they got this 'cold' sound. 'Das Model' could be a soundtrack to the german 60s SF TV show 'Raumpatroille' When we (our 'band', see http://www.astro.uni-bonn.de/~theissen/ag.html, which is under construction) bought our PA amp and finshed building our speakers, the first thing we did was playing 'Electric Cafe' through it as loud as possible. That was a wonderful electronic experience... To some *really* different kind of electronic music: Does anybody on this list know 'Der Plan' or 'Pyrolator'??? This is ultimate synthesizer fun! Armin Armin Theissen ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Armagh Observatory email: ath@s... College Hill http://www.astro.uni-bonn.de/~theissen Armagh, BT61 9DG Phone: (+44) 1861 522928 Northern Ireland Fax: (+44) 1861 527174 From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 6:25 pm Subject: concert review I thought you all would enjoy this. Mike This just in from my pal, Al. Enjoy.-Mindy --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Fwd: Concert Review Date: 96-11-05 11:02:51 EST From: AlFonts To: ZOOMAR1010 CC: Beats2X,JimmyOD123,Coolberg CC: Alchemy8,BTOP1234,ExtraKat i love concert grands --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Concert Review Date: 96-11-05 08:25:01 EST From: MrTenedor To: AlFonts ********************************************* A Humid Recital Stirs Bangkok (This review by Kenneth Langbell appeared in the English Language Bangkok Post. It was made available by Martin Bernheimer of the Los Angeles Times.) THE RECITAL, last evening in the chamber music room of the Erawan Hotel by US Pianist Myron Kropp, the first appearance of Mr. Kropp in Bangkok, can only be described by this reviewer and those who witnessed Mr. Kropp's performance as one of the most interesting experiences in a very long time. A hush fell over the room as Mr. Kropp appeared from the right of the stage, attired in black formal evening-wear with a small white poppy in his lapel. With sparse, sandy hair, a sallow complexion and a deceptively frail looking frame, the man who has repopularized Johann Sebastian Bach approached the Baldwin Concert Grand, bowed to the audience and placed himself upon the stool. It might be appropriate to insert at this juncture that many pianists, including Mr. Kropp, prefer a bench, maintaining that on a screw-type stool they sometimes find themselves turning sideways during a particularly expressive strain. There was a slight delay, in fact, as Mr Kropp left the stage briefly, apparently in search of a bench, but returned when informed that there was none. AS I HAVE mentioned on several other occasions, the Baldwin Concert Grand, while basically a fine instrument, needs constant attention, particularly in a climate such as Bangkok. This is even more true when the instrument is as old as the one provided in the chamber music room of the Erawan Hotel. In this humidity the felts which separate the white keys from the black tend to swell, causing an occasional key to stick, which apparently was the case last evening with the D in the second octave. During the 'raging storm' section of the D-Minor Toccata and Fugue, Mr. Kropp must be complimented for putting up with the awkward D. However, by the time the 'storm' was past and he had gotten into the Prelude and Fugue in D Major, in which the second octave D plays a major role, Mr. Kropp's patience was wearing thin. Some who attended the performance later questioned whether the awkward key justified some of the language which was heard coming from the stage during softer passages of the fugue. However, one member of the audience, who had sent his children out of the room by the midway point of the fugue, had a valid point when he commented over the music and extemporaneous remarks of Mr. Kropp that the workman who had greased the stool might have done better to use some of the grease on the second octave D. Indeed, Mr. Kropp's stool had more than enough grease and during one passage in which the music and lyrics were both particularly violent, Mr. Kropp was turned completely around. Whereas before his remarks had been aimed largely at the piano and were therefore somewhat muted, to his surprise and that of those in the chamber music room he found himself addressing himself directly to the audience. BUT SUCH THINGS do happen, and the person who began to laugh deserves to be severely reprimanded for this undignified behavior. Unfortunately, laughter is contagious, and by the time it had subsided and the audience had regained its composure Mr. Kropp appeared somewhat shaken. Nevertheless, he swiveled himself back into position facing the piano and, leaving the D Major Fugue unfinished, commenced on the Fantasia and Fugue in G Minor. Why the concert grand piano's G key in the third octave chose that particular time to begin sticking I hesitate to guess. However, it is certainly safe to say that Mr. Kropp himself did nothing to help matters when he began using his feet to kick the lower portion of the piano instead of operating the pedals as is generally done. Possibly it was this jarring or the un-Bach-like hammering to which the sticking keyboard was being subjected. Something caused the right front leg of the piano to buckle slightly inward, leaving the entire instrument listing at approximately a 35-degree angle from that which is normal. A gasp went up from the audience, for if the piano had actually fallen several of Mr. Kropp's toes if not both his feet, would surely have been broken. It was with a sigh of relief therefore, that the audience saw Mr. Kropp slowly rise from his stool and leave the stage. A few men in the back of the room began clapping and when Mr. Kropp reappeared a moment later it seemed he was responding to the ovation. Apparently, however, he had left to get a red- handled fire ax which was hung back stage in case of fire, for that was what was in his hand. MY FIRST REACTION at seeing Mr. Kropp begin to chop at the left leg of the grand piano was that he was attempting to make it tilt at the same angle as the right leg and thereby correct the list. However, when the weakened legs finally collapsed altogether with a great crash and Mr. Kropp continued to chop, it became obvious to all that he had no intention of going on with the concert. The ushers, who had heard the snapping of piano wires and splintering of sounding board from the dining room, came rushing in and, with the help of the hotel manager, two Indian watchmen and a passing police corporal, finally succeeded in disarming Mr. Kropp and dragging him off the stage, thus ending one of the most memorable musical experiences of the season. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 6:25 pm Subject: Concert review Hello to all. I am new to the list but TD and I go way back. I got this from Al Kooper some time back but wanted to share it with you all. Enjoy! Mike This just in from my pal, Al. Enjoy.-Mindy --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Fwd: Concert Review Date: 96-11-05 11:02:51 EST From: AlFonts To: ZOOMAR1010 CC: Beats2X,JimmyOD123,Coolberg CC: Alchemy8,BTOP1234,ExtraKat i love concert grands --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Concert Review Date: 96-11-05 08:25:01 EST From: MrTenedor To: AlFonts ********************************************* A Humid Recital Stirs Bangkok (This review by Kenneth Langbell appeared in the English Language Bangkok Post. It was made available by Martin Bernheimer of the Los Angeles Times.) THE RECITAL, last evening in the chamber music room of the Erawan Hotel by US Pianist Myron Kropp, the first appearance of Mr. Kropp in Bangkok, can only be described by this reviewer and those who witnessed Mr. Kropp's performance as one of the most interesting experiences in a very long time. A hush fell over the room as Mr. Kropp appeared from the right of the stage, attired in black formal evening-wear with a small white poppy in his lapel. With sparse, sandy hair, a sallow complexion and a deceptively frail looking frame, the man who has repopularized Johann Sebastian Bach approached the Baldwin Concert Grand, bowed to the audience and placed himself upon the stool. It might be appropriate to insert at this juncture that many pianists, including Mr. Kropp, prefer a bench, maintaining that on a screw-type stool they sometimes find themselves turning sideways during a particularly expressive strain. There was a slight delay, in fact, as Mr Kropp left the stage briefly, apparently in search of a bench, but returned when informed that there was none. AS I HAVE mentioned on several other occasions, the Baldwin Concert Grand, while basically a fine instrument, needs constant attention, particularly in a climate such as Bangkok. This is even more true when the instrument is as old as the one provided in the chamber music room of the Erawan Hotel. In this humidity the felts which separate the white keys from the black tend to swell, causing an occasional key to stick, which apparently was the case last evening with the D in the second octave. During the 'raging storm' section of the D-Minor Toccata and Fugue, Mr. Kropp must be complimented for putting up with the awkward D. However, by the time the 'storm' was past and he had gotten into the Prelude and Fugue in D Major, in which the second octave D plays a major role, Mr. Kropp's patience was wearing thin. Some who attended the performance later questioned whether the awkward key justified some of the language which was heard coming from the stage during softer passages of the fugue. However, one member of the audience, who had sent his children out of the room by the midway point of the fugue, had a valid point when he commented over the music and extemporaneous remarks of Mr. Kropp that the workman who had greased the stool might have done better to use some of the grease on the second octave D. Indeed, Mr. Kropp's stool had more than enough grease and during one passage in which the music and lyrics were both particularly violent, Mr. Kropp was turned completely around. Whereas before his remarks had been aimed largely at the piano and were therefore somewhat muted, to his surprise and that of those in the chamber music room he found himself addressing himself directly to the audience. BUT SUCH THINGS do happen, and the person who began to laugh deserves to be severely reprimanded for this undignified behavior. Unfortunately, laughter is contagious, and by the time it had subsided and the audience had regained its composure Mr. Kropp appeared somewhat shaken. Nevertheless, he swiveled himself back into position facing the piano and, leaving the D Major Fugue unfinished, commenced on the Fantasia and Fugue in G Minor. Why the concert grand piano's G key in the third octave chose that particular time to begin sticking I hesitate to guess. However, it is certainly safe to say that Mr. Kropp himself did nothing to help matters when he began using his feet to kick the lower portion of the piano instead of operating the pedals as is generally done. Possibly it was this jarring or the un-Bach-like hammering to which the sticking keyboard was being subjected. Something caused the right front leg of the piano to buckle slightly inward, leaving the entire instrument listing at approximately a 35-degree angle from that which is normal. A gasp went up from the audience, for if the piano had actually fallen several of Mr. Kropp's toes if not both his feet, would surely have been broken. It was with a sigh of relief therefore, that the audience saw Mr. Kropp slowly rise from his stool and leave the stage. A few men in the back of the room began clapping and when Mr. Kropp reappeared a moment later it seemed he was responding to the ovation. Apparently, however, he had left to get a red- handled fire ax which was hung back stage in case of fire, for that was what was in his hand. MY FIRST REACTION at seeing Mr. Kropp begin to chop at the left leg of the grand piano was that he was attempting to make it tilt at the same angle as the right leg and thereby correct the list. However, when the weakened legs finally collapsed altogether with a great crash and Mr. Kropp continued to chop, it became obvious to all that he had no intention of going on with the concert. The ushers, who had heard the snapping of piano wires and splintering of sounding board from the dining room, came rushing in and, with the help of the hotel manager, two Indian watchmen and a passing police corporal, finally succeeded in disarming Mr. Kropp and dragging him off the stage, thus ending one of the most memorable musical experiences of the season. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 16816 Concert review Carl & Jacqui Kearney Sun 6/13/1999 1 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 7:03 pm Subject: Trying to understand Froese side on BTH Really-From: Claude Roy Hi all, Well, i'm trying to understand the attitude of Edgar in this saga with Beyong the Horizon. Beyond The Horizon was TDNAN when it came to life. TDNAN was in the beginning was almost 75% TD related. The rest was of the ex-member of the band. Then the magazine include more and more ex-member and related electronic music artists. When BTH came to birth, TD seem to be 25% and the other 75%. In the last issue TD is not much for the reason we now know. IF we try to understand TD and Edgar position, we have to notice the following things: First the first reason why TDNAN had his subscribers, was because it was a magazine about TD. I don't think that Chris, Paul and the other ex. member can caught as much subscribers without TD. So for myself, I subscribe to TDNAN to learn more about TD in the first place. It was great to get news about Chris and the other, don't take me wrong but TD was and is the main event. Edgar coulb be frustrated because BTH and the now magazine oriented on ex-members and never in the band musicians, exist on the popularity of TD. Without TD, this magazine could not exist, I think. If in the first place the magazine had been oriented on electronic musicians TD or any other, I think Edgar would still collaborate with BTH. But they take advantage of the name of TD to talk about others and selling with the TD name. I do think that Edgar have a point of this. I don't think that BTH can live better without TD. I also think that BTH does a great job putting this mag every 3 months. so great stuff in this. but if TD isn't much talk about as in this new issue. I don't think I will subscribe anymore. even if you don't have a lot of direct information about the band, you could talk about them. The Shefferd Bush concert was not a big issue and it was the main event for TD fan this year. I know that you don't like the new stuff about TD: Goblins, Shefferd Bush CD, Dream Roots but you should do deeper critics. talk about each piece, tell us about the good and the bad. A little coloumn for all these is just ridiculous. You don't punish Edgar by talking less about TD, it's the fan that are punish by this. On the last issue, you have more space about Cluster then TD. Maybe the Cluster fan are happy but how about the TD fans. I like most of the artists in BTH but no one as TD. So in your next direction please take notice that that every subscriber is a fan of TD which is not the case with Chris, Paul Lightwave, Namlook, Cluster and others.... Brian you wanted a opinion, that's mine. ___________________________________________________________ Claude Roy, Longueuil P.Q. Canada e-mail: http://pages.infinit.net/ozzz/gci/gcimain.htm (site génie civil) http://pages.infinit.net/ozzz/cin/cinbienv.htm (site cinema) ____________________________________________________________ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1561 Re: Trying to understand Froese side on BTH Vic Rek Sat 3/8/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 7:17 pm Subject: Re: 'Beyond The Horizon' Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' >have a pot to piss in...if he doesnt like what they write about him, tough >shit...and if hes so upset, why is the first ad in the mag for his latest >disc? at this point, he should be happy that someone still gives a shit >about him, considering the enormous quantity of quality music out there...he >should >be happy that there still exists a hard core group of fans, and an adoring >magazine (lumps and all)...if he cant take criticism, maybe hes in the I'm glad you said it before I did. Readng the stuff on the web site, I have the feeling that TD thinks that they're not worthy of judgement by ANYONE, critics especially. I have to admit what they say about themselves on the website doesn't help me like them much. >himself? in end effect, the whole thing is kinda silly and pointless on >froese's part because now the mag is gonna start covering other artists who >will only make him even more irrelevant... I get the impression, from what's on the web site and from this situation, that Froese doesn't seem to care much about his fans, and that's really disheartening. I don't know if anyone else on this list likes Phish, but I just started getting into them and I can say with authority that they REALLY care about their fans. They publish their own FREE newsletter, run a web site, allow you to tape their shows, play live more than once a year, and treat their fans like they actually LIKE them. TD seems to see themselves as being above their fans. Too bad their music's so damn good. . . Scott From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: Kraftwerk: Sorta Shallow Really-From: Steven Feldman >re: kraftwerk and TD >Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 18:43:56 -0800 >From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) >Really-From: Thomas Fanger > >[. . .] To me Kraftwerk is the most >sexy and most funky synth band ever. They also have a great sense of >humour. Although I have to admit Kraftwerk never touched my soul as deep >as TD in their best moments. Although I used to love Kraftwerk, they are sort of a one joke band . . . like Devo. They are the most robotic of all 70s-80s electronic bands, but that was really their thrill. The music itself came second. Now, the only Kraftwerk I really listen to more than once every few years is stuff from RALF AND FLORIAN and 'Neon Lights' off the MAN MACHINE album. I thought ELECTRONIC CAFE was a pathetic unintentional self-parody and haven't paid them much mind, since. My endearing terms for them back in the 1970s were 'The Clone Brothers' and 'The Dancing Nazis.' Hey, the 1970s were a different (i.e. non-PC) time. ;) -- Steven Feldman Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1555 Re: Kraftwerk: Sorta Shallow TWeibre361@a... Fri 3/7/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 8, 1997 3:05 am Subject: kraftwerk Really-From: ath@s... (Armin Theissen) > My endearing terms for them back in the 1970s were 'The Clone >Brothers' and 'The Dancing Nazis.' Hey, the 1970s were a different > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What?????????? Why?????????? Armin Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 13493 kraftwerk Michael A Jean Fri 5/1/1998 2 KB 13494 Re: kraftwerk SRiser3600 Fri 5/1/1998 2 KB 13496 Re: kraftwerk MCINTYRE@p... Fri 5/1/1998 3 KB 13498 Re: kraftwerk TWeibre361 Fri 5/1/1998 3 KB 13499 Re: kraftwerk TWeibre361 Fri 5/1/1998 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 9:01 pm Subject: Re: 'Beyond The Horizon' Really-From: TWeibre361@a... In a message dated 97-03-07 15:06:12 EST, you write: << Too bad their music's so damn good. . . >> in this day and age i think that this statement is extremely debateable....their music has been uneven at best...in fact, i think this uneveness can be traced to the beginings of froese's 'rock star' dementia.... tom w np: dubitamin From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 9:25 pm Subject: Re: Kraftwerk: Sorta Shallow Really-From: TWeibre361@a... In a message dated 97-03-07 15:15:20 EST, you write: << Although I used to love Kraftwerk, they are sort of a one joke band . . . like Devo. >> yeah right....k'werk has been the inspiration and progenitor of a whole generation of techno/idm/electronic bands...how many other bands can claim this? tom w From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 9:31 pm Subject: RE: TD and Kraftwerk Really-From: Sean Montgomery > >What is the general attitude of TD fans to Kraftwerk? Most of their stuff I can take or leave. But their influence on what would become technopop was undeniable. And I do like some of their later songs (The Model, Tour de France, Computer Love). And to some extent, you can argue that their fetishising of the machine was just their being true to what they were doing: making music with machines. Their music, their image was was and the same. It was music for a new computer world... Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR http://www.topix.com/~sean 'I used to be indecisive, but now I just don't know' From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 10:22 pm Subject: Re: TD and Kraftwerk Really-From: Mark Filipak tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: G.K.Naughton@i... -snip- > What is the general attitude of TD fans to Kraftwerk? -snip- Like most people if suppose, my intro to KW was 'Autobahn'. I really liked it at the time and continued to buy their albums. When the switch to CDs came, I bought most of the major albums on CD. But my tastes developed past the point of appreciating what to me are simple 'tunes'. Now, the only album I still have is 'Man Machine'. Though it is not as strong as 'Trans-Europe Express' or 'Radioactivity', I find the 'tunes' amusing and refreshing at times whereas I tired of 'TEE' and 'R' and never played them. The albums prior to 'Autobahn' never made it to CD in my collection, probably because by the time they came out on CD, I was already tired of the band. I have no plans to buy anything after 'MM'. Ciao -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 11:37 pm Subject: Re: 'Beyond The Horizon' Really-From: Mark Filipak tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: TWeibre361@a... > > In a message dated 97-03-07 15:06:12 EST, you write: > > << Too bad > their music's so damn good. . . > >> > > in this day and age i think that this statement is extremely > debateable....their music has been uneven at best...in fact, i think > this uneveness can be traced to the beginings of froese's 'rock star' > dementia.... > > tom w > > np: dubitamin Tom! What do you mean by 'dementia'? Do you have anything to back up a charge that Edgar is demented? If you don't, you shouldn't use such a word. -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 8, 1997 3:46 am Subject: Re: 'Beyond The Horizon' Really-From: 'Aden P. Staring' tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: Mark Filipak > > tadream mailing list wrote: > > > > Really-From: TWeibre361@a... > > > > In a message dated 97-03-07 15:06:12 EST, you write: > > > > << Too bad > > their music's so damn good. . . > > >> > > > > in this day and age i think that this statement is extremely > > debateable....their music has been uneven at best...in fact, i think > > this uneveness can be traced to the beginings of froese's 'rock star' > > dementia.... > > > > tom w > > > > np: dubitamin > > Tom! What do you mean by 'dementia'? Do you have anything to back up a > charge that Edgar is demented? If you don't, you shouldn't use such a > word. -- Mark Excuse me, but I really don't want to receive 30 e-mails a day. Please cease and desist! From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 7:30 pm Subject: Re: Fooey on TD & The Orb; How About TD & Aphex Twin? Really-From: 'Andrew J. Rozsa' At 03:05 PM 3/6/97 GMT, you wrote: >Really-From: Paul Nagle > > >On Thu, 06 Mar 1997 14:56:02 +0000, you wrote: > > >>This is fairly off-topic, but are you the Paul Nagle of UK >>electronic musician fame (appearing in E&MM circa early '80s) ? >Correct apart from the 'fame' word... >8-) >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ > Paul Nagle - paul@s... > www.softroom.demon.co.uk (Upd. 06/03/97) >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ Don't let Paul's humility throw you off... I am only half-way through his 'Elements' tetralogy, and I can assure all of you that he is a legitimate contender to the (before- Miramar) TD throne. Way beyond RMI, Andy Pickford, and the rest of the 'fuzzy' bunch (Eno, and other sweet people, like Jan Hammer, Air Sculpture, Mind Over Matter, like that). You want your heart to beat faster, listen to Torchbearer, Morning Light, and Forgery on the 'Firedancer.' I, for one, am hooked. Widely available In Great Britain, Paul's stuff is seen in Archie Patterson's latest Eurock catalog and Ranjit's ProgTron. The best money I spent in a long time. Thanks, Paul. Of course, this is just my opinion (paraphrasing Dennis Miller). Andrew From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 8, 1997 2:42 am Subject: Re: Trying to understand Froese side on BTH Really-From: Vic Rek At 02:03 PM 3/7/97 -0500, you wrote: >Really-From: Claude Roy >Edgar coulb be frustrated because BTH and the now magazine oriented >on ex-members and never in the band musicians, exist on the popularity >Without TD, this magazine could not exist, I think. If in the first >place the magazine had been oriented on electronic musicians TD or any >other, I think Edgar would still collaborate with BTH. But they take advantage >of the name of TD to talk about others and selling with the TD name. I disagree with this. BTH explained why they changed their name just for this reason. And of course BTH wouldn't exist without TD in the first place, but who cares, no other fan club whould exist either. >I do think that Edgar have a point of this. I don't think that BTH can live >better >without TD. > Nobody said that they will, but what about TD not helping them? >but if TD isn't much talk about as in this new issue. I don't >think >I will subscribe anymore. Well, that's your prerogative. I get plenty of TD information from this discussion group and other sources. I rely on BTH to provide me with the group 'related' information because it's very important to me. No hard feelings Claude, but I had to give a rebuttal. Vic From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Mar 7, 1997 10:18 pm Subject: Dream Roots Collection Really-From: 'Ceb Blankenship, Jr.' Hello! I recently purchased Tangents and I think its great!! I've been a TD fan since 1973. The great thing about Edgar's remixing and updating on Tangents is that its like hearing all the old Virgin stuff like new again and comparing it to the old recordings. I admit I've been lurking on this list awhile and have really enjoyed the discussions and knowledge put forth about TD. I also know this subject has been discussed before but I need clarification again... Last night I saw the 'Dream Roots Collection' at Borders Books and Music here in Wash. DC. Since I probably have every TD cd (including the SBM versions) is this box set worth buying? I know one CD has some unreleased tracks, are they any good? Did Edgar tangetize all the other cuts with updated sounds? Is the sound quality as good as Tangents? What does the booklet included contain? Need some help with this guys, so if any of you have purchased DRC please respond. Thanks and DREAM ON!!! Ceb Blankenship, Jr. ceb@p... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1565 Re: Dream Roots Collection feldon@n... Sat 3/8/1997 3 KB 1575 Re: Dream Roots Collection dbrewer@a... Sat 3/8/1997 4 KB 1645 Re: Dream Roots Collection Craig R. J. Cordrey Mon 3/10/1997 4 KB 1882 Re: Dream Roots Collection =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ingo_P=FCschma Sat 3/15/1997 4 KB 6248 Dream Roots Collection Michael A Jean Sun 8/3/1997 3 KB 21972 Dream Roots Collection Brian M. Frick Sat 4/15/2000 2 KB 21973 Re: Dream Roots Collection Rainer Rutka Sat 4/15/2000 3 KB 21974 Re: Dream Roots Collection Andrew Rozsa Sat 4/15/2000 2 KB 21980 Re: Dream Roots Collection Gustavo Jobim Sun 4/16/2000 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 8, 1997 4:25 am Subject: Tangram Really-From: feldon@n... I know we're not discussing Tangram this week, but I got it and I've just got to get some comments out of my system: 1. One of the few TD albums that haven't required two listenings to truly enjoy. 2. I was only mildly frustrated at some of Edgar's tweaking on Tangents until I heard Tangram. Why Edgar did _anything_ to Tangram is beyond me. Especially the redone version of the force majeure-ish guitar piece from Set One (between 5:00 and 12:00 if memory serves), ick! 3. If there's anything that Tangram can't be accused of, it's of having too much strings/moog waveforms. Logos, Phaedra, all of these albums have rich bass and constant strings/waveforms. Tangram is an exception IMHO and compared to every other album between 1974-1984, the only other album I have heard which seems to limit itself to short 'beeplike' sounds is White Eagle... 4. There's nothing WRONG with Tangram having limited strings! Sure it might have benefitted from having analogue strings/waveform, but so what. For what the average music listener could accuse of being beeps and guitar notes, Tangram is a true sign that TD can accomplish a lot of music if they want to. 5. From Phaedra to Stratofear, TD seems to stay with a certain 'pattern' and then crossfade into something almost completely different every 4-6 minutes. Tangram (and I'm assuming Exit, although I haven't heard the original album) has a 'change of plan' every 2-3 minutes. Then for Logos (and I'm assuming Hyperborea, again haven't heard the original) TD returns to 4-6 minute patterns. Then, TD has slowly moved to having a pattern last for no longer than 30 seconds! Arrgg! I think I'll make a CD where I loop the first 2 minutes of the last track of Goblin's Club for an hour. Because that's the closest that TD has gotten to a Smoelling loop for a long time. 6. I don't have the Tangram SBM, couldn't find it, but I'm not complaining about the Caroline release I bought. After coping with 'Tyger' by Relativity, I'll accept a little noise! Morgan feldon@n... Morgan's top 6 TD albums ------------------------ 1. Phaedra 2. Logos 3. Force Majeure 4. (I need to listen to Rubycon, Hyperborea, Stratosfear, and Exit before I fill slot #4, I might have to rearrange things! I also need to listen to Reims Cathedral among other things...) 5. Tangram 6. Dream Mixes (I know I'm going to get heat over this one) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 4649 Re: Tangram Grant Middleton Thu 6/5/1997 3 KB 4679 Re: Tangram Morgan Marks Thu 6/5/1997 2 KB 4698 Re: Tangram Greg Heil Fri 6/6/1997 3 KB 5055 Tangram Mathew Hargreaves Mon 6/16/1997 2 KB 5085 Re: Tangram TangerineC@a... Tue 6/17/1997 2 KB 5089 Re: Tangram Greg Heil Tue 6/17/1997 3 KB 5092 Legend Question Paul Nagle Tue 6/17/1997 3 KB 19968 Tangram John Marchington Wed 12/22/1999 2 KB 20054 Tangram AslanFan1@xxx.xxx Thu 12/30/1999 1 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 8, 1997 4:52 am Subject: Re: 'Beyond The Horizon' Really-From: feldon@n... At 03:37 PM 3/7/97 -0800, you wrote: >Really-From: Mark Filipak > >tadream mailing list wrote: >> >> Really-From: TWeibre361@a... >> >> In a message dated 97-03-07 15:06:12 EST, you write: >> >> << Too bad >> their music's so damn good. . . >> >> >> >> in this day and age i think that this statement is extremely >> debateable....their music has been uneven at best...in fact, i think >> this uneveness can be traced to the beginings of froese's 'rock star' >> dementia.... >> tom w Uh... Mind telling me what you're doing on the Tangerine Dream *FAN CLUB* mailing list? Morgan feldon@n... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 8, 1997 5:02 am Subject: Re: Dream Roots Collection Really-From: feldon@n... At 10:18 PM 3/7/97 +0000, you wrote: >Really-From: 'Ceb Blankenship, Jr.' (snip...) >I admit I've been lurking on this list awhile and have really enjoyed >the discussions and knowledge put forth about TD. I also know this >subject has been discussed before but I need clarification again... >Last night I saw the 'Dream Roots Collection' at Borders Books and >Music here in Wash. DC. Since I probably have every TD cd (including >the SBM versions) is this box set worth buying? In my opinion, the Dream Roots Collection improves upon the music from 1970-73, 1983-86 better than Tangents improves upon the music from 1974-1982. >I know one CD has some unreleased tracks, are they any good? In my opinion, the unreleased music on the Dream Roots #5 CD is *MUCH* better than the unreleased music on the Tangents #5 CD. >Did Edgar tangetize all the other cuts with updated sounds? I have to admit that I don't own much of the music from the Dream Roots time periods (1970-1973, 1983-1986), but yes, to the best of my knowledge, he has added to and completely redone many of the tracks in the box. >Is the sound quality as good as Tangents? What does the booklet included contain? My ears tell me that the sound quality of Dream Roots is as good as the SBM releases. Morgan feldon@n... P.S. To put it all in perspective, I would buy Dream Roots before I'd buy Tangents, but would ultimately want to own both... (I have both, I'm just playing devil's advocate) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 8, 1997 5:40 am Subject: Re: TD and Kraftwerk Really-From: PNaunton@a... In a message dated 97-03-07 11:02:08 EST, you write: <> > >What is the general attitude of TD fans to Kraftwerk? > > Hate 'em. > > Scott >-- End of excerpt from tadream mailing list Like 'em a lot. Rich. >> I like the early Kraftwerk stuff alot but lost interest when 'Autobahn' hit the bins. Too much pop schlock after, and including, that. Those early albums ( I have one or two ) were way cool, experimental, mind altering, borderline psychotic, minimalistic, improvisational, parenthetical, multi-dimensional, explorations into electronic music. Then they lost it. Over! Someone just tried to keep the dead body alive artifically for a way, way, way, way long time. Somebody pull the plug and bury the corpse. _It's over!!!_ Phil Naunton From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 8, 1997 10:11 am Subject: network 388 Really-From: 'Lars R. Jones' <105411.3107@c...> OK I've been meaning to do this for a while but I just keep forgetting. Now I'm stuck in London and my network 388 tape is at home so I can't name names and be more specific or do a full review. But I DO want to say that Network 388 really is a very EXCELLENT tape by all involved and I would highly recommend those who haven't ordered (a very large percentage of this list, I understand) to set your butts in motions and order one! (it is by setting my butt in motion that thoughts acquire speed, speed brings me the tape and the tape brings me pleasure--now, how does that line from Dune go? I am obviously not a mentat...) money is not an object since it is only $2 + SASE or a blank tape with SASE (right?) I really appreciated everyone's efforts and it was clearly all quite professionally done. I thought about doing a full review but I feel that since I am not a musician that might seem presumptuous (I CAN justify reviewing TD because I know much more about them and they have become a BIG part of my life over 17 years). I can't speak to all issues, but I do hear 'flavors' or traces of TD throughout the tape. I'm not referring to samples or to 'copies,' but every know and then, you can assess its genealogical heritage--just as one would expect on a tape put together by musician fans of TD. This is, I think, a very pleasureable experience; I don't feel the least bit inclined to think 'oh you stole that from such and such a track' no, it is more like a sort blurry sense of deja-vu... Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying any of these tracks are dependent on TD--each work clearly stands as a work in its own right and is easy to respect and appreciate as such; any 'influences' that 'show through' only do so in the most pleasurable way and don't seem like 'influences' at all. OK, enough of that, I am obviously dancing around a big hole and am about to fall in it. The tape is great, buy it. and do it now. that's what I am trying to say And, if you buy it, share your feelings with others on the list... Has anyone sent a copy of Network 388 to Edgar? if not, why? I'll send you the $2 and postage if you want... (I don't imagine that IF you have, you have gotten any sort of response... or have you?) lars Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1577 Re: network 388 dbrewer@a... Sat 3/8/1997 3 KB 1585 Re: network 388 Mark Filipak Sun 3/9/1997 3 KB 1887 Re: network 388 jeffrey@i... Sat 3/15/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 8, 1997 10:12 am Subject: stuff Really-From: 'Lars R. Jones' <105411.3107@c...> dreamers several people have been asking lately about the difference between TOB and TOTT US/UK (including the amp v. tdi releases); please see last week's digest, I posted a long discussion of this (of course I'm sure some of you just hit delete when you see my name on a post so you won't read this anyway. well, tough shit.) I was out and about today and came upon a few interesting items, if anyone is interested in a swap, please email me privately: EF Macula Transfer, Brain, vinyl, cover VG gatefold (some lamination is loosening otherwise maybe even excellent); vinyl=near excellent; a very clean copy I don't know if it has been played but a few times. TD Streethawk/Tiergarten 7' Jive 5006 (italian) cover excellent/vinyl mint (I don't think it has ever been played) I also saw but did not buy a 70-80 box set (I didn't buy it because the cover was kind of worn; just abraded but not busted) it was 26 pounds or about $35US (LPs); if you are interested let me know. Also, the offer is still open for the UK/TDI releases of TOB and TOTT with the bonus for the north americans and I found a few other things that brightened up a dreary day (but which I'm not offering for trade: JS --Zoo of Tranquility; this is really good stuff (much better imo than WR or songs no words); thanks to all who have recommended this so highly Rockoon - cd, blue cover w/ yellow type (no gear design, etc) ; Volt records VR5020 1992 -- I had never heard of this cover and the covers I have seen here (euro versions) all look just like the miramar/NA versions (ok, excuse my ignorance); this must be the original uk release version, right? Can someone please post the full info (including a catalog number) on the Chi Coltrane single? The last post was this: >> 3) One Night in Medina (only on some single?) >On the single 'I Just Want To Live My Own Life Without You' >(is that right, or is it 'Rule'?) by Chi Choltrane. and HOW do you pronounce 'chi'--like 'cheee ' (long e) as in cheese? or like the italian which would be 'key'? or like 'chiiii' (long i) as in chives? or more like the french, sounding like 'she' or ??? or like the 'english' 'chick' (with a short i) or ????? thanks lars (growl) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1619 Re: stuff PNaunton@a... Mon 3/10/1997 2 KB 1621 Re: stuff Mark Filipak Mon 3/10/1997 3 KB 1623 Re: stuff PNaunton@a... Mon 3/10/1997 2 KB 1650 Re: stuff Michael Fox Mon 3/10/1997 3 KB 29713 Re: stuff John Vertical Mon 10/22/2001 4 KB 29721 Re: stuff rubyconist@y... Tue 10/23/2001 3 KB 29722 Re: stuff Rolf =?iso-8859-1?Q?Elfstr=F6 Tue 10/23/2001 2 KB 29728 Re: stuff John Vertical Tue 10/23/2001 2 KB 29794 Re: stuff rubyconist@y... Thu 10/25/2001 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Dec 31, 1969 9:59 pm Subject: 10 Fave E-music Albums (only 3 TD-related) Really-From: Klaus_Beschorner@b... (Klaus Beschorner) >* Peter D. Gulch is/was the founder/leader of The Nightcrawlers, a band >that put out some 30 cassettes, but only 3 albums and no CDs. A re-release of the three albums on CD is in the making at Manikin records. -klaus- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 8, 1997 3:31 pm Subject: Re: Get a good laugh :-) Really-From: PhilPDX@a... In a message dated 97-03-06 17:09:43 EST, you write: << Believe it or not, but I believe I know the guy who triggered this joke. At least I'm pretty sure I do.. so do you, Chris, Peter ;-) And anybody who was backstage at the London concert... >> Braggart! Of course, I'd brag, too, if I'd gotten to go backstage at a TD concert. :-) Phil D. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 8, 1997 3:31 pm Subject: Re: Introduction Really-From: PhilPDX@a... In a message dated 97-03-06 13:48:29 EST, you write: << the Brilliant Chris Franke who has only let me down once with the appalling Raven Soundtrack. >> I've been wondering about this one, almost bought it - why is it so bad? You really like all the others? I found Unknown Soldier rather uninspired, and didn't care for Music for Films, either. So if you liked ALL the others, I'm assuming Raven is REALLY bad. :-) Phil D. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 8, 1997 4:15 pm Subject: Chi Coltrane Really-From: "Robin A.Seed" At 05:12 8/3/97 -0500, you wrote: >Really-From: "Lars R. Jones" <105411.3107@compuserve.com> >Can someone please post the full info (including a catalog number) on the >Chi Coltrane single? >The last post was this: >>> 3) One Night in Medina (only on some single?) >>On the single "I Just Want To Live My Own Life Without You" >>(is that right, or is it "Rule"?) by Chi Choltrane. Chi Coltrane "I just want to rule my own life without you" Ploydor 879 881-2 cd maxi-single 1991 printed in Germany on the front cover in german: Titelsong aus der TV-Serie|TATORT "Bis zum Hals im Dreck" Track Listing: 1. I just want to rule my own life without you 4;02 (Edgar Froese/Chi Coltrane/Jerome Froese) 2.One Night In Dedina (instrumental) 3:44 (Edgar Froese/Jerome Froese) 3. I just want to rule my own life without you(Instrumental) 3:30 (Edgar Froese/Jerome Froese featuring Linda Spa on Saxaphone) ********************************************************************************* Robin.A.Seed Hong Kong e-mail rseed@asiaonline.net Tel: 9172 4180 ********************************************************************************* From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 9, 1997 12:59 am Subject: Re: Introduction Really-From: gary.cresswell1@v... tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: PhilPDX@a... > > In a message dated 97-03-06 13:48:29 EST, you write: > > << the Brilliant Chris Franke who has only let me down once with > the appalling Raven Soundtrack. >> > > I've been wondering about this one, almost bought it - why is it so bad? You > really like all the others? I found Unknown Soldier rather uninspired, and > didn't care for Music for Films, either. So if you liked ALL the others, I'm > assuming Raven is REALLY bad. :-) > > Phil D. It is very bad! Havn't heard unknown soldier or do you mean Universal Soldier? I must admit the heavily orchestrated works such as Universal Soldier and Music for Films are not as good as the other stuff but they are still to me enjoyable. Raven is completely out of character. Its Like instrumental Micheal Bolton meets Miami vice (no apologies to M.Bolton fans). It is full of soppy (sorry I cant think of a more apt word) guitar pieces. There is also quite a lot of vocals in an American rock/pop style. the best piece is a butchered snipit from Klemania. Is there anyone prepared to come to Ravens defence? I would be interested to read your views. Gaza From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 9, 1997 2:18 am Subject: Re: TD midi files Really-From: Philip Meyer >Someone known if TD midi files are avalaible on the net ? > I have found one midi file containing a 4:17min extract of Poland. Can't remember where I got it from. I could try MIME or UUEncoding it to this list, if no-one objects? -----------Philip Meyer-------------- phil@h... amarok@c... ------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 8, 1997 7:51 pm Subject: Re: Dream Roots Collection Really-From: dbrewer@a... > Quoted From: 'Ceb Blankenship, Jr.' > > Hello! I recently purchased Tangents and I think its great!! I've > been a TD fan since 1973. The great thing about Edgar's remixing > and updating on Tangents is that its like hearing all the old Virgin > stuff like new again and comparing it to the old recordings. I agree with you! Between the remixed versions of songs already released and the new tracks on disc 5 (which I don't think are all *that* bad, just a mild disappointment with the absence of the 70-80 tracks and a few others), I think this is a fine addition to most any fan's collection. (with a few exceptions! :-) ) > > I admit I've been lurking on this list awhile and have really enjoyed > the discussions and knowledge put forth about TD. I also know this > subject has been discussed before but I need clarification again... > Last night I saw the 'Dream Roots Collection' at Borders Books and > Music here in Wash. DC. Since I probably have every TD cd (including > the SBM versions) is this box set worth buying? I know one CD has > some unreleased tracks, are they any good? Did Edgar tangetize all > the other cuts with updated sounds? Is the sound quality as good as > Tangents? What does the booklet included contain? Need some help > with this guys, so if any of you have purchased DRC please respond. > Thanks and DREAM ON!!! If you liked Tangents, you should like DRC. It's pretty much the same idea, only with different periods of music. I do wish that the 70-73 tracks had more representation, but at least there's some on there. DRC disc 5 is quite a bit better than Tangents disc 5 (I think most anyone here will tell you this). They're all Froese/Franke compositions, and they sound like them too (i.e. classic :-) ) All of the previously released tracks were remastered and remixed, but I don't think any were completely rerecorded/reperformed. Sound quality is professional, like Tangents. The booklet has some info about the history of the band during these time periods, and 95(!) photos of the band from the late 60's up to present day. (you finally get to see what The Ones looked like!) I hope this helped! Dave Brewer np- 220 Volt Live (it's rare when I have to work on a terminal w/ a CD drive and think to bring in discs!) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 8, 1997 7:56 pm Subject: CoAE!!! Really-From: 'Maxwell A. Croy' To anyone who owns both the 'Coefficient of Aural Expansion' Parts 1 & 2... What is the diference, if any, between the two? I am planning on ordering the first but want some info. on the second before I drop the $40 plus.... Dream me a Tdream, Maxwell From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 8, 1997 8:13 pm Subject: Re: network 388 Really-From: dbrewer@a... On behalf of all the others responsible for making N388, I'd like to give Lars a sincere and hearty 'thank you!' for sharing his thoughts on it. And he did it without having his copy with him! Some of us (the contributors) have been at least a little concerned that very little has been said about this tape on the ML, despite the fact that about 10% of the list has a copy. So please, if you have it, please take a few minutes and share your opinions about it with the rest of the list. And if you don't have one and want one, get ahold of Jeff (another talented musician, IMHO) at jeffrey@i..., and he'll get you set up with a copy. Then you can share some opinions. Personally, I feel priviledged to have some of my work presented along side of all these very talented artists. And as for Lars' thought of sending Edgar a copy, I don't think he'd be very interested in it. But I guess we won't know unless we try. Dave Brewer np- 220 Volt Live (still) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 8, 1997 9:20 pm Subject: Three Phase video Really-From: 'Francisco Salgado C.' Hi everybody Today I got this video. I thouth it was a live video of '220 volt live' but it's a mix of live and video-clip like music. Sound on live songs is better than the CD in my opinion since dynamics are ok ( as oposed to the Cd where there is a lot of dynamic-limitations ). there is some 'tangentinyzed' material including a very psycodellyc video of Phaedra. towards the end of the video ther is some historic video material including young Froese together with Baumann and Franke. On some scenes there apears a very young ( around 12 years old I guess) Jerome. Just for those scenes is worth the price !. But there is also good music on it. I like it... My first TD video... N.P. Pink Floyd live, 1994 (2nd set) Fantastic recording.... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1579 Re: Three Phase video feldon@n... Sat 3/8/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 8, 1997 10:07 pm Subject: Re: Three Phase video Really-From: feldon@n... At 10:20 PM 3/8/97 +0100, you wrote: >Really-From: 'Francisco Salgado C.' > >Today I got this video. I thouth it was a live video of '220 volt live' >but it's a mix of live and video-clip like music. > >Sound on live songs is better than the CD in my opinion since dynamics >are ok ( as oposed to the Cd where there is a lot of dynamic-limitations >). And the fact that the performances contained on the video are quite different from the CD too, I mean, they play the songs differently. >there is some 'tangentinyzed' (sic.) material including a very psycodellyc >video of Phaedra. This Phaedra was performed in 1988 and is available on Tangents. >towards the end of the video ther is some historic video material >including young Froese together with Baumann and Franke. On some >scenes there apears a very young ( around 12 years old I guess) Jerome. I like the footage of one of the Laserium concerts: Giant Tangerine colored balloons being tossed around in the audience. >Just for those scenes is worth the price !. But there is also good music >on it. Yeah, the music you're hearing is Logos 'Blue' (which is located at time index 19:35 on the official Logos CD) but reperformed from scratch during the 1988 North American tour and available on the Tangents boxed set. >I like it... My first TD video... Uh, it's the *ONLY* TD music video....aka, you actually see the band playing most of the time! Canyon Dreams isn't the same thing... Morgan feldon@n... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 8, 1997 10:11 pm Subject: Re: TD midi files Really-From: feldon@n... At 07:18 PM 3/8/97 GMT, you wrote: >Really-From: Philip Meyer > > >>Someone known if TD midi files are avalaible on the net ? >> >I have found one midi file containing a 4:17min extract of Poland. Can't >remember where I got it from. I am studiously trying to write Logos Blue and maybe some other stuff as MIDI files but am failing miserably because I have a Sound Blaster 16 w/o the Wavetable upgrade... aka, no decent sounding instruments Morgan feldon@n... P.S. Anyone have recommendations about a under $250 soundcard or comments about the SB16 wavetable upgrade? Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1586 Re: TD midi files Mark Filipak Sun 3/9/1997 2 KB 1587 Re: TD midi files Mark Filipak Sun 3/9/1997 3 KB 1589 Re: TD midi files Pixel Sun 3/9/1997 2 KB 1593 Re: TD midi files Mark Filipak Sun 3/9/1997 3 KB 1596 Re: TD midi files Marcel Engels Sun 3/9/1997 3 KB 1605 Re: TD midi files Pixel Mon 3/10/1997 2 KB 1607 Re: TD midi files Mark Filipak Mon 3/10/1997 2 KB 1609 Re: TD midi files feldon@n... Mon 3/10/1997 2 KB 1633 Re: TD midi files Pixel Mon 3/10/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 8, 1997 10:48 pm Subject: BTH-Open letter Really-From: Michael A Jean Oh well, here it goes.... With the exception of the cover page, the latest issue of BTH is the most professional looking issue to date. The magazine has shown continuous improvement in its appearance. The staff deserves that much credit... The content however, was a serious disappointment. It certainly didn't seem worth the six month delay in receiving the information contained in the latest issue. Obviously there may be other reasons for the delay such as other personal commitments, or lack of reader contributions; but this has not been stated...Perhaps the next issue will be more comprehensive. Much of information seems dated, and written half-heartedly as best (other than the open letter). That is understandable considering the course of recent events. I know it would take the wind out of my sails, if I was having irreconcilable differences with the very people who I set out to report on. In fact, I would question whether I should continue publicizing them at all. It SEEMS this is the course of action you have taken. For better or worse, the writers have always been candid in their assessments of the bands music. However this issue seems mean spirited towards the band, and negligent to the readers...Several important things receive just a passing mention, if any. It is possible many things will be reviewed in greater detail in the next issue (Goblin's Club, the EP, DRC, the Orb remix, the London Concert, The Easter Island contest, the new tour, The Mirimar BRICK release, KS's DSOTM V, Coma Virus, all the new and pending Chris Franke releases, Back to the Universe w/KS). There is SO MUCH going on that non-internet connected readers are being deprived of. (The growing amount of web references in the publications ARE very helpful for us). But COME ON! Alot of good it does the 'unconnected'. Alot of the latest issue reads like a digest, rather than a complete edition. The editors say they are confounded by the situation, but their possible explanations don't seem plausible (at least to me). There MUST be more to this story. (For example, the UK magazine VOYAGER, also covers former and non-TD related artists without any problems.) I suppose the addition of an official TD webpage, takes the edge off any print-based publication that necessarily lags weeks or months behind electronic resources. But publications can maintain a niche market by presenting unique fan perspectives, and by covering former / related artists. However to do this apart from or against your central mission is self-defeating. If VOYAGER can achieve this delicate balance, why can't BEYOND THE HORIZON? Before long, you subscriber base will be limited to people who aren't on the net, and those who aren't willing to trade their US dollars to Pounds Sterling. The editors and staff of BTH should be complimented for striving to bring fans reliable (though frequently imbalanced) information about the band and former members; and working to make this music more available. But sadly, this conflict has gone too far, regardless of who is at fault. I think we all need to respect each party's perspective (The editor's, the reader's, the fan's and TD's). If ANY of those views are missing or excluded, you have gone farther BEYOND THE HORIZON than I want to be. Mike Jean, Chicago mjean@s... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 8, 1997 11:42 pm Subject: D: Underwater Sunlight Really-From: Boneheads1@a... Water Water is a recurring theme in music. Perhaps it is because the way we hear things underwater is a type of expanded conciousness similar to when an audience is unified by focusing, experiencing, and allowing themselves to be moved by music together. Some of my favorite music deals with water: Aqua, Maroubra Bay, Galley Slave's Horizon, Underwater Sunlight, In The Wake Of Poseidon, Franz Lizt wrote a piece about St. Peter walking on water that is phenomenal. I used to think of listening to Tropic Of Capricorn as like a bath for my mind. There's something refreshing about thinking about water. Animals Underwater Sunlight addresses animal conciousness and in that way reminds me of Pink Floyd's Animals. There is a similar power and immediacy, however Underwater Sunlight uses animals to present a more idealistic conciousness, rather than a critical reproach of people. Tangerine Dream can get you to look at life/music differently by presenting a different and often more beautiful perspective. Style Underwater Sunlight is one of Tangerine Dream's most direct albums. As was mentioned it marks a return of Edgar's guitar in a big way after Logos, Hyperborea, Poland and Le Parc. You can also hear the juxtaposition of the thin 'harpsichord', the swirling pads and the swinging, dynamic, full bass/drums. If you haven't heard Underwater Sunlight go out and get it. See you underwater... Tim From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 8, 1997 11:44 pm Subject: Re: Introduction Really-From: TheSmitter@a... << << the Brilliant Chris Franke who has only let me down once with the appalling Raven Soundtrack. >> I've been wondering about this one, almost bought it - why is it so bad? You really like all the others? I found Unknown Soldier rather uninspired, and didn't care for Music for Films, either. So if you liked ALL the others, I'm assuming Raven is REALLY bad. :-) Phil D. >> I've been wondering the same thing. I did not buy Raven for the very reason that US and NMfF were both so forgettable!! I thought I read where only part of the music is by CF. Is that true? In occassionally pruning my stock of cds, I keep coming very close to trading US and NMfF because I know I will never listen to them. Larry Smith From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Mar 8, 1997 11:46 pm Subject: Re: Fooey on TD & The Orb; How About TD & Aphex Twin? Really-From: Tony Marshall >Really-From: 'Grant Middleton' > >That'd be the ultimate crap of all time. Richard James is the most >overrated exponent of electronic music today, with the Orb running >a very close second. So many of the current 'ambient' crew write >excellent stuff then TOTALLY screw it up by putting inappropriate >samples or lead lines over the top. I'm thinking in particular of >the Orb's use of 'Loving You' on an otherwise dreamy track (no >pun intended). > have you heard the Peel Session version of 'A huge ever..../Loving You'??? It's by far the best version, and there's only a few seconds of the Loving You sample.. I really like the FSOL 'telephone answering machine' piece I heard on John Peel's show a couple of years back - really excellent synths at the end - shame it was so short ;-( >Why can't they just use a bit of discrimination, rather than >releasing everything that they come up with. I'm sure it >probably sounds pretty good 'eccied-up' in the chill-out room >at a rave but it leaves me cold under normal circumstances. > >Other bands which I feel are guilty of this include Orbital and >Banco de Gaia. > Ah. I'm thinking of buying a Banco CD, on the strength of a track I heard on one of the Future Music CDs which was fantastic. Has anyone heard the limited edition 3CD version of 'Last Train to Lhasa' as that's the one I'm after for starters... Tony Marshall |#include ----------------------|--------------------------------------------------- My Mystery Tune Page http://www.personal.u-net.com/~zigzag From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 9, 1997 12:51 am Subject: Re: network 388 Really-From: Mark Filipak Dave Brewer wrote about 'Network 388' tape: > -snip- > Some of us (the contributors) have been at least a little concerned > that very little has been said about this tape on the ML, That's because *I* haven't received _my_ copy yet :-) Hopefully, lots will be said real soon. ('Waste of plastic!! What a drain on National resources!! Makes great doorstop!!') -snip- > And as for Lars' thought of sending Edgar a copy, I don't think he'd be > very interested in it. But I guess we won't know unless we try. Never know. Edgar may be looking for someone to bring into the band. > Dave Brewer > > np- 220 Volt Live (still) Cheers -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 9, 1997 1:14 am Subject: Re: TD midi files Really-From: Mark Filipak Philip Meyer wrote: > > I have found one midi file containing a 4:17min extract of Poland. > Can't remember where I got it from. > > I could try MIME or UUEncoding it to this list, if no-one objects? I just asked Edgar and he said, 'Naw, don't mind at all. Bring it on!' -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 9, 1997 12:38 am Subject: Re: TD midi files Really-From: Mark Filipak tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: feldon@n... > > At 07:18 PM 3/8/97 GMT, you wrote: > >Really-From: Philip Meyer > > > > > >>Someone known if TD midi files are avalaible on the net ? > >> > >I have found one midi file containing a 4:17min extract of Poland. > >Can't remember where I got it from. > > I am studiously trying to write Logos Blue and maybe some other stuff > as MIDI files but am failing miserably because I have a Sound Blaster > 16 w/o the Wavetable upgrade... aka, no decent sounding instruments > > Morgan > feldon@n... > > P.S. Anyone have recommendations about a under $250 soundcard or > comments about the SB16 wavetable upgrade? Sorry Morgan. You get what you pay for. Perhaps you could sub to one of the gear mail lists and try to get a real synth, cheap (I have a Roland Sound Canvas SC-55) that you can connect to your MIDI out and disable everything else on the sound card. Sound Blasters are marginally okay for playing games but not for any kind of music, IMVHO. -- Mark PS: Beethoven composed after he went deaf. Just turn off the sound completely and try that. -- M (ducking for cover) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 9, 1997 9:41 am Subject: Re: The Video Dream Mixes Really-From: Mathew Hargreaves Hey Gang, The Laserdisc of The Video Dream Mixes is scheduled for a May 21 release date. The price will be $29.85. CHEERS...Matt Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5378 The Video Dream Mixes Vic Rek Thu 6/26/1997 2 KB 8697 The Video Dream Mixes matt knudson Fri 11/14/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 9, 1997 7:38 pm Subject: Re: TD midi files Really-From: Pixel > > P.S. Anyone have recommendations about a under $250 soundcard or > > comments about the SB16 wavetable upgrade? > > Sorry Morgan. You get what you pay for. Perhaps you could sub to one > of the gear mail lists and try to get a real synth, cheap (I have a > Roland Sound Canvas SC-55) that you can connect to your MIDI out and > disable everything else on the sound card. Sound Blasters are > marginally okay for playing games but not for any kind of music, IMVHO. > -- Mark There is not too much problem because SC-55 is available as SB-daughterboard card, too. It's called SCD-10 or SCD-15 and is much cheaper than an original SC-55. GG From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: (Date Unavailable) Subject: Re: Three Phase Video Really-From: G.K.Naughton@i... Hello, On the subject of TD videos, what video footage of the band is available? In the 1978 tour programme it says that the '75 Coventry Cathedral concert was filmed and shown on BBC in '76. For years when scanning the TV listings my first reflex action has been to look for this concert to be repeated, but no such luck. This is particularly irritating as it must be the only thing in the BBC's archive that hasn't been repeated at least ten times. We get Freddie Starr's Christmas Special repeated in July, but two showings of TD in 21 years is obviously too much to ask. Also, I believe that the 1984 Athens concert was broadcast on Greek TV and there appear to be TV cameras on stage during the Warsaw concert. And then there's that professional quality footage from the 1988 concerts in _Three Phase_. All this suggests that there's a lot of TD concert footage around. How about a round-up of this material as part of the next monthly FAQ, Goozer? Glynn Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1594 Re: Three Phase Video Mark Filipak Sun 3/9/1997 3 KB 1661 Re: Three Phase Video Simon W. Hood Mon 3/10/1997 4 KB 1684 Re: Three Phase Video Kev Holmes Tue 3/11/1997 4 KB 33941 Three Phase Video tadreaming@c... Thu 5/16/2002 2 KB 33951 Re: Three Phase Video chris towers Thu 5/16/2002 2 KB 33960 AW: [tadream] Three Phase Video Herbert Thu 5/16/2002 3 KB 34064 Re: Three Phase Video Jonathan Holt Mon 5/20/2002 3 KB 34140 Three Phase Video Dennis Nigbur Mon 5/27/2002 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 9, 1997 8:13 pm Subject: Revised Web Pages Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) Hello all, Following some suggestions from fellow TADREAMERS we've enhanced our web pages to include two new features. Firstly, there's now a simple links page which will help you find a number of related EM sites, some well known, others less so. If you would like to be included in our links section please drop me a line at dhughes@g... Secondly, we've included a new 'competition' page which gives you the opportunity to win some Tranquility Bass goodies. Have a look. See what you think. Sound files are available to download as well as a decent list of European and US dealers. Cheers David Tranquility Bass email : dhughes@g... web page : http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dhughes/tbass.html email : dhughes@g... web page : http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dhughes/tbass.html From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 9, 1997 1:42 pm Subject: Beyond The Horizon Really-From: Tom Coppens Hi you all, well, it's been quite a while since I last wrote in (been quite busy and the jarre list was also quite busy ;-) ). -> About Beyond the Horizon.... Well, I'm a former subscriber to the mag, I decided not to renew my subscription because I knew most of the info before I received the magazine and the fact that it strayed a bit too far from my favourite tastes in EM (although very diverse). One thing which annoyed me *slightly* was the constant glorification of Steve Joliffe's solo works, which seemed a bit suspicious to me as BTH are/were the distributors of his discs for the USA. Then again, I don't like Steve Joliffe's solo work... What I DO want to say however -and I also wrote this when I did a small article on the mag in KLEM- is that I think it's one of the best looking and profesionally produced fanzines around (I don't know the present status of the magazine, so this may have changed). ->Slightly off-topic, one of my all-time dreams is to buy a synth, not that I can play any music, but since it's a dream rational arguments don't count :))) . Anywayz, I've got the chance to buy a Juno 60 with the sequencer module for a reasonable price. I tried it and it seems to fulfill my desires quite well, since I'm mainly interested in making sounds. If anyone has some experience with this synth, please let me know. Other suggestions also very welcome. Since this list is already full of threads, perhaps it's better to send replies to my personal e-mail... Well, that's it for now, W~a~v~e~~~~~ Tom From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 9, 1997 2:40 pm Subject: Re: TD midi files Really-From: Mark Filipak tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: Pixel > > > > P.S. Anyone have recommendations about a under $250 soundcard or > > > comments about the SB16 wavetable upgrade? > > > > Sorry Morgan. You get what you pay for. Perhaps you could sub to > > one of the gear mail lists and try to get a real synth, cheap (I have > > a Roland Sound Canvas SC-55) that you can connect to your MIDI out > > and disable everything else on the sound card. Sound Blasters are > > marginally okay for playing games but not for any kind of music, > > IMVHO. -- Mark > > There is not too much problem because SC-55 is available as > SB-daughterboard card, too. It's called SCD-10 or SCD-15 and is much > cheaper than an original SC-55. > > GG That's a great idea Gabor. That means I could buy an SCD-15 _AND_ stick my SC-55 on the MIDI port -- I like that! -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 9, 1997 2:44 pm Subject: Re: Three Phase Video Really-From: Mark Filipak tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: G.K.Naughton@i... > > Hello, > > On the subject of TD videos, what video footage of the band is > available? In the 1978 tour programme it says that the '75 > Coventry Cathedral concert was filmed and shown on BBC in '76. For > years when scanning the TV listings my first reflex action has been > to look for this concert to be repeated, but no such luck. This is > particularly irritating as it must be the only thing in the BBC's > archive that hasn't been repeated at least ten times. We get > Freddie Starr's Christmas Special repeated in July, but two > showings of TD in 21 years is obviously too much to ask. > > Also, I believe that the 1984 Athens concert was broadcast on Greek > TV and there appear to be TV cameras on stage during the Warsaw > concert. And then there's that professional quality footage from > the 1988 concerts in _Three Phase_. All this suggests that there's > a lot of TD concert footage around. > > How about a round-up of this material as part of the next monthly > FAQ, Goozer? > > Glynn As was reported earlier, the good old Virgin -vs- Pink/Blue -vs- Private -vs- Miramar licensing fights have kept a lot of stuff from being released. -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 9, 1997 3:02 pm Subject: Radio Massacre International Home Page Really-From: 'Francisco Salgado C.' Hi folks Here it is: http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~nsedley/rmi/ francisco From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 9, 1997 3:54 pm Subject: Re: TD midi files Really-From: 'Marcel Engels' > > > Sorry Morgan. You get what you pay for. Perhaps you could sub to > > > one of the gear mail lists and try to get a real synth, cheap (I have > > > a Roland Sound Canvas SC-55) that you can connect to your MIDI out > > > and disable everything else on the sound card. Sound Blasters are > > > marginally okay for playing games but not for any kind of music, > > > IMVHO. -- Mark > > > > There is not too much problem because SC-55 is available as > > SB-daughterboard card, too. It's called SCD-10 or SCD-15 and is much > > cheaper than an original SC-55. > > > > GG > > That's a great idea Gabor. That means I could buy an SCD-15 _AND_ stick > my SC-55 on the MIDI port -- I like that! -- Mark Right, so we would expect *great* music (NOT). Sorry guys, but a Sound Canvas (as good as may be) will not make an Encore/ Logos record. Dream on. Marcel From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: Re: Beyond the Horizon, the Storm Really-From: Robert Forman <73652.1423@C...> As many of you will recall, back last October Brian Kirby and I had a somewhat heated discussion regarding Q13 on the TD Home page FAQ. Although the discussion was heated, I think we kept things cordial and agreed to disagree with no hard feelings. I have to admit, I was looking forward to the next issue of BtH because I wanted to see what the magazine's 'official' response would be. Brian led us to believe it would be a doozy, so I was expecting some heat, but hoped for some light also. As things turned out the 'An Open Letter To Subscribers' did generate the heat, but instead of being enlightening, in my opinion, it just added to the confusion. The letter has short quotes from Question 13, and alludes to an article in a magazine called 'Sequences'. But the quotes are selective and short, and the reader is left wondering what is being talked about. Since I have Web access, I know about Question 13. But now I'm very curious as to what was said in 'Sequences'. The reader of BtH who does not have access to the Internet and has never seen 'Sequences' must be at a total loss. So the Open Letter ends up defending BTH but without ever fully stating what the 'attack' was. And I find their defenses to be self serving and self aggrandizing. For instance, they say they have 'given considerable time pondering just what it is that Mr. Froese finds so objectionable about us.' They propose 3 'theories': 1. Because they 'freely publish critical comments about the albums we cover' 2. Because 'BTH provides coverage not only of the current TD, but also of former TD members in their post-TD careers' 3.'Apparently the fact that we have expanded our CD distribution is a source of concern.' Having proposed these 'theories' they then heroically defend against them vigorously, to prove that such accusations are without merit. e.g.: 'our magazine does not include endless ego-stroking praise...' '...we refuse to apologize for giving other fans a forum in which to speak their minds, good or bad.' Of course, to my knowledge, no one asked for these things (and if you believe the part about not including 'endless ego-stroking praise', I invite you to read the reviews the magazine has published regarding Steve Joliffe). But one need only look at this latest issue of BTH to see another reason that Edgar might have for disliking BTH that the open letter ignored. If you look through the review section you will see very positive reviews for the latest albums by Lightwave, Paul Haslinger, Klaus Schulze, and 4 albums by Namlook. In the reviews of the latest efforts of TD; Oasis, Goblins' Club, Shepherds Bush, and The Dream Roots Collection, all are given mixed reviews but generally panned. Worse yet, in the review of Dream Roots and regarding the unreleased track disk, the reviewer says: 'Two of the four previously unreleased tracks are winners. 'Valley of the Sun' and 'Vanishing Blue' are prime examples of Franke compositions, chock full of the rhythmic and harmonic subtleties that so often escape the current TD incarnation.' (quoted from a review by Michael J. Darnell) The other two tracks are panned, with the implication being that they are by Edgar. It seems to me that this is a recurring theme in the magazine. That the other TD members are/were creating great works, but not Edgar. (And how does the reviewer know that these are, in fact, Franke composed tracks?) Is it possible that Edgar sees things as 'favorites are being played, and I'm not one of the favored?' Would you give enthusiastic support to a magazine that stated things like '...demonstrate the musical greatness this band once held, and the continual decline it seemingly can't -or won't- pull itself out of these days.'? (also MJD) And why isn't Edgar one of the favored? There may be a hint of this on page 3 of the Open Letter. Apparently Tadream was 'provided with' the 'opportunity' to participate and give guidence to their organization. Yet they chose not to! (can you believe it?) In fact Edgar told them 'It's your magazine, do what you want with it.' And yet now he has the temerity to be displeased with them. So they say 'if you don't vote in the election, you don't have much basis to complain about the winners actions.' So just what 'election' is it that Edgar didn't vote in and who are the 'winners'? I guess it's the one where if you are cooperative with the magazine you get a good review, if you aren't...well, you just have no right to complain. Finally, I just can't let this go without comment: >> battle lines are really unnecessary because froese doesnt have a pot to piss in...if he doesnt like what they write about him, tough shit...<< Edgar has as much right to comment negatively about BTH on his web page as BTH has to criticize him in it's magazine. If you think that Edgar is overly sensitive about what is written about him, well, I can speak from personal experience that the Editor in Chief of BTH is at LEAST as sensitive to perceived criticism if not more so. >>Bob<< Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1638 Re: Beyond the Horizon, the Storm TWeibre361@a... Mon 3/10/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 9, 1997 5:44 pm Subject: Boston Bound Really-From: goozer@a... (Hermes Guzman) Greetings all! I've been unexpectedly called out of town for the next 3 weeks, consequently, I'll be unable to reply to anyone or do the March FAQ. See you when I get back! goozer From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 2:43 am Subject: Come on down... Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) Hi all, >> I have found one midi file containing a 4:17min extract of Poland. >> Can't remember where I got it from. >> >> I could try MIME or UUEncoding it to this list, if no-one objects? > >I just asked Edgar and he said, 'Naw, don't mind at all. Bring it on!' >- -- Mark There's this funny idea going around that Edgar doesn't like bootlegs and people ripping off his music which struck me as being odd in that some of the bootlegs doing the rounds (Spherical Harmonics to name but one...) are so clean that they can only have come from either a radio broadcast or the mixing desk. I'll stand corrected if Spherical Harmonics did indeed come from a radio broadcast but if not then surely this means that someone on the roadcrew was recording the concert with a view to bootlegging the performance at a later date. Or...dare I suggest it? Is it likely that a member of TD is releasing these recordings, perhaps to feed an insatiable demand from their fans? Just a theory : feel free to shoot me down in flames... Cheers David email : dhughes@g... web page : http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dhughes/tbass.html From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 2:43 am Subject: Network 388 Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) Hi all, I, too, would like to thank Lars for raising the subject of the Network 388 tape. As a contributor I was dismayed by the apparent lack of interest in the material given that much of the music was written by TD fans for TD fans. I would strongly recommend that members of the digest have a listen to this tape. You may not find everything to your taste but then you may find one or two of the tracks very much to your liking. We've already started to climb the greasy pole that is the music business but there are a number of significant contributions to the tape that deserve to be heard so that they too can live out their ambitions and start to build a career in music. TD is a major influence in our music. I'm not ashamed of that fact at all. Actually, I'm rather proud of the association. Cheers David Tranquility Bass email : dhughes@g... web page : http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dhughes/tbass.html email : dhughes@g... web page : http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dhughes/tbass.html Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1681 Re: Network 388 jeffrey@i... Tue 3/11/1997 4 KB 1704 Re: Network 388 Erik Sanborn Tue 3/11/1997 4 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 9, 1997 8:07 pm Subject: Re: 'Beyond The Horizon' Really-From: TWeibre361@a... In a message dated 97-03-07 23:56:09 EST, you write: << Uh... Mind telling me what you're doing on the Tangerine Dream *FAN CLUB* mailing list? >> obviously not worshiping at edgar's altar...or does being a fan mean being a sheep? tom w np: kraftwerk - radioactivity From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 9, 1997 10:46 pm Subject: Quasar track Really-From: rch@g... For completists, the Quasar track also appears on the TOB CD-rom, which can be played on any ordinary CD player (ie you can listen to the music even if you don't have a CDrom drive) Richard From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 9, 1997 10:46 pm Subject: awful movies Really-From: rch@g... Recently Hans Peter wrote: >Re: Red Nights and Red Heat - I think everything's said, two different but >nearly equally bad movies. Red Heat is, IMO, the worst film TD ever did a >soundtrack for - it's unbearable. Although the music is really not bad - and >not released (excepting extracts on 70/90). > >Hans-Peter You forgot to include Death Bite/Spasms in the Awful-movie list ! Richard From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 6:07 am Subject: Poland Midi file - poland.mid Really-From: Philip Meyer Well, here it is... -----------Philip Meyer-------------- phil@h... amarok@c... ------------------------------------- begin 644 poland.mid M351H9`````8``0`S`'A-5')K````&0#_6`0$`A@(`/]9`@```/]1`PFC&P#_ M+P!-5')K```/:@#_(0$``/\#'$UE;&]D>2`Q`,!5`+`'?P'P'C\`L%L`AWR0 M,G\\,@``.7\>.0``-W\>-P``-7\\-0``-W^'+#<``#)_/#(``#E_'CD``#=_ M'C<``#5_/#4``#)_@@XR`!XR?SPR```Y?QXY```W?QXW```U?QXU`!XW?X(L M-P``,FH\,@``.7\>.0``-W\>-P``-7\\-0``,G^'#C(`'C)_/#(``#E_'CD` M`#=_'C<``#5_/#4``#=_@B...```R?SPR```Y?QXY```W?QXW```U?SPU```R M?X(.,@`>,G\\,@``.7\>.0``-W\>-P``-7\>-0`>-W^'+#<``#)J/#(``#E_ M'CD``#=_'C<``#5_/#4``#)_@@XR`!XR?SPR```Y?QXY```W?QXW```U?SPU M```W?X(L-P``,G\\,@``.7\>.0``-W\>-P``-7\\-0``,G^'#C(`'C)_/#(` M`#E_'CD``#=_'C<``#5_'C4`'C=_@B...```R:CPR```Y?QXY```W?QXW```U M?SPU```R?X(.,@`>,G\\,@``.7\>.0``-W\>-P``-7\\-0``-W^'+#<``#)_ M/#(``#E_'CD``#=_'C<``#5_/#4``#)_@@XR`!XR?SPR```Y?P*P!WPR,'>2T'>!P'=QL'=@P...'=`D',G\\,@``.7\>.0``-W\>-P``-7\\-0``-W^' M+#<``#)_/#(``#E_'CD``#=_'C<``#5_/#4``#)_@@XR`!XR?SPR```Y?QXY M```W?QXW```U?QXU`!XW?X(L-P``,FH\,@``.7\>.0``-W\>-P``-7\\-0`` M,G^'#C(`'C)_/#(``#E_'CD``#=_'C<``#5_/#4``#=_@B...```R?SPR```Y M?QXY```W?QXW```U?SPU```R?X(.,@'=8D5_`#Y_`$$\'D$``#X``$4`6D5_ M`$%J`#YJ'CX``$$``$4`6D5_`$%J`#Y_'CX``$$``$4`6D%J`$5J`#Y_'CX` M`$4``$$`6D5_`$%_`#Y_'CX``$$``$4`6D5_`#Y_`$%3'D$``#X``$4`6D5_ M`$%J`#Y_'CX``$$``$4`6D5_`$%_`#Y_'CX``$$``$4`6D%J`$5_`#Y_'CX` M`$4``$$`'K!;7S);805;8P6017\`07\`/G\%L%ME'EMG!5MI'I`^``!!``!% M``JP6VL*6VT/6V\*6W$46W,46W4%D$5_`#YJ`$%<&;!;=P6000``/@``10`/ ML%MY&5M[%%M]#UM_#Y!%?P!!?P`^?QX^``!!``!%`%I%?P!!?P`^?QX^``!! 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M+P#_(0$``/\#'T]V97)D'0#_(0$``/\#'%1R86-K(#$V`+\'?P'_'C\`_R\` ` end Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1615 Re: Poland Midi file - poland.mid Mark Filipak Mon 3/10/1997 3 KB 1664 Re: Poland Midi file - poland.mid Philip Meyer Tue 3/11/1997 2 KB 1625 Re: Poland Midi file - poland.mid Marcel Engels Mon 3/10/1997 2 KB 1663 Re: Poland Midi file - poland.mid Francisco Salgado C. Mon 3/10/1997 2 KB 1801 Re: Poland Midi file - poland.mid Mark Filipak Thu 3/13/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 9:07 am Subject: Re: TD midi files Really-From: Pixel > That's a great idea Gabor. That means I could buy an SCD-15 _AND_ stick > my SC-55 on the MIDI port -- I like that! -- Mark Not exactly. The daughterboard header's MIDI port appears as the exact copy of the MIDI output. You can't address the two devices separately. GG From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 7:03 am Subject: D : Underwater Sunlight Really-From: Dennis Nigbur 'Underwater Sunlight' was actually one of the first TD works I obtained. That I didn't really get into it until quite recently is because I was preoccupied with Virgin- and pre-Virgin stuff. It is a nice album, though, although it marks the departure of Johannes Schmoelling - and because it marks the entry of Paul Haslinger. SONG OF THE WHALE - FROM DAWN 4AS I never cease to think that the first few notes played on this track set in a bit too abruptly, just like on some songs on 'Goblin's Club', actually - it seems as if they'd played something like an eighth of a note before starting the tape...maybe that's why the beginning seems a bit startling to me, and I don't really enjoy it. It gives a totally wrong impression of the general mood of the track. Distinctively, this piece introduces a more extensive use of guitar- and piano-like sounds as opposed to the more organ- and string-based sounds of the Schmoelling era. Even if the booklet states that all the tracks were composed solely by Froese and Franke, I can't help the feeling that Paul Haslinger has had his say at least in instrumentation, if not in composition. This is in line with the reintroduction of Froese's guitar. Froese said in an interview that he rarely played the guitar between 1980 and 85 because the other members didn't like it. Doubting that Franke changed his view entirely between 1985 and 86, I put it down to Haslinger's influence that the guitar reappears on this track: Very gently brought back into the TD sound, very melodic (as opposed to the Pink Years) and moderately paced (as opposed to the Seattle Years). Not only because of the guitar work, I think that this is a lovely tune, seeming a lot more relaxed than 'Le Parc'. The only criticism I have is that the motifs and melodies in this song are not exploited to their full potential - I can't help the feeling that there seems to be something missing whenever I listen to it. Notably, the motif appearing in the 3:53 to 4:45 and 7:15 to 8:00 could have been elaborated on, rather than just cross-fading into choir-like sounds; the structure and composition of the piece could easily have been extended to a, say, twelve-minute movement. Nevertheless, particularly the part after the first crescendo is perfect - the guitar is fully there, yet still very romantic; the drums and percussion are effective but unobtrusive. A very nice opening. SONG OF THE WHALE - TO DUSK 5AS The best track on the album. The lovely laid-back piano solo leads beautifully on into a very peaceful and harmonic synthesizer part, and an excellent lead synth from 4:30 onwards sets the stage for very exciting things to come. The build-up (including the legendary chek-chek-checkaah sounds) very smoothly pushes in the guitar climax which in itself is melodic, yet intense. After a while, it merges nicely into the soothing sound of the synthesizers at about 7:00 before a second, even more exciting guitar solo sets in at 8:20. Notably, the drums in this part change their pattern to supplement, rather than counteract, the guitar. Eventually, this part is cross-faded into a very calm outro part, leaving the listener to his own thoughts while the music is gently taking its leave. Straightly speaking, excellent. DOLPHIN DANCE 3AS What surprises me about this song, compared with the preceding titles, is the rather monotonous drumming & bass line. Apart from that, the opening 1:20 minutes are above board, with some really nice guitar work and lead synth. After that, the guitar picks up the lead motif, but offers comparatively little variation. While the drums & bass are still playing exactly the same sequences, a beautiful flute-like sound picks up the lead and eventually mutates into a really nice lead synth at about 3:50 into the track. It's doubtless that what TD have actually put into this song is extremely well performed - it just isn't very much. Initially, I loved this song; it's a very memorable hum-along tune - but in terms of substance and complexity, it stops seeming interesting after playing it a couple of times. Personally, I prefer the more 'frilly' version in the last part of 'Livemiles'. Overall, a strong 3AS. RIDE ON THE RAY 4AS What 'Dolphin Dance' does for dance music, 'Ride on the Ray' does for rock. It's a lovely and convincing TD adaptation of that musical style, but not in all respects up to the standards that TD have set themselves. As in 'Song of the Whale - From Dawn', the onset is unnaturally sudden, as opposed to the very gentle build-up that marks the first few bars of the tune. The middle part is dominated by the guitar, which is developed to its full effect here, presenting a memorable solo in a very heavily treated sound that actually appears to emerge from underwater. Much more than a blatant freak-out, this guitar part impressively carries the melody line and winds down at exactly the right moment to give way to the very nice, relaxed outro. Although the same criticisms as with 'Dolphin Dance' apply about complexity and drumming, the guitar and the inventive tinkling and rattling percussive effects make this song an, albeit weak, 4AS. SCUBA SCUBA 3AS Some aspects of this piece always make me think that this might have been intended to be a bridge sequence to link two more catchy motifs in a longer piece. It seems to be strongly influenced by the Schmoelling era, especially because the drumming is reminiscent of 'Poland' and 'Le Parc'. For bridge music (see above), this would have been top notch, with the very interesting drum patterns and interjections, but for an autonomous track, the synth voices, as atmospheric as they are, do not have enough melody to them to make this any better than a weak 3AS. UNDERWATER TWILIGHT 4AS The second best piece on the album, this track incorporates Schmoelling-esque elements such as the complex and diffuse background string and choir sounds and, notably, the delicate lead synth at 4:10 into the song, as well as distinctively Haslinger-era delights, such as the piano parts in the lead voice and at 5:00, and the high-pitched short-impulse sequencer runs. A very calm introductory part (more characteristic of Schmoelling era music) leads into the main part, where the drumming is just as excellent as on 'Scuba Scuba', and the various synthesizer voices mingle in an almost random, yet uniquely peaceful fashion. The sequencer run is slightly monotonous, but the most harmonious blend yet of Schmoelling-like fluidity and Haslinger era energy make this a very good 4AS. I believe that TD would have been just _perfect_ if Haslinger and Schmoelling had ever composed and played together. These individual judgements give 'Underwater Sunlight' (all in my very humble opinion indeed, as usual) a total average of 3.8AS. With every justification to round that up to 4AS, one can conclude that this is one of the upper-second class works of TD, and certainly one of the most soothing and relaxing ones. (Sorry about the length of this mail, I hope you enjoyed the read anyway) Dennis From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 2:01 am Subject: Re: TD midi files Really-From: Mark Filipak Gabor wrote: > Mark wrote: > > That's a great idea Gabor. That means I could buy an SCD-15 _AND_ > > stick my SC-55 on the MIDI port -- I like that! -- Mark > > Not exactly. The daughterboard header's MIDI port appears as the exact > copy of the MIDI output. You can't address the two devices separately. > > GG Hrumph! (Of course.) And I suppose the Sound Blasters don't have a MIDI out. -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 2:11 am Subject: Fwd: Concert Review Really-From: Michael Fox >From: BTOP1234@a... >Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:44:10 -0500 >To: ndoyle@s..., rexdav@i..., shavlish@i..., > 73742.3263@c..., mfox00@d... >Subject: Fwd: Concert Review > >This just in from my pal, Al. >Enjoy.-Mindy >--------------------- >Forwarded message: >Subj: Fwd: Concert Review >Date: 96-11-05 11:02:51 EST >From: AlFonts >To: ZOOMAR1010 >CC: Beats2X,JimmyOD123,Coolberg >CC: Alchemy8,BTOP1234,ExtraKat > >i love concert grands >--------------------- >Forwarded message: >Subj: Concert Review >Date: 96-11-05 08:25:01 EST >From: MrTenedor >To: AlFonts > >********************************************* > > A Humid Recital Stirs Bangkok > >(This review by Kenneth Langbell appeared in the English >Language Bangkok Post. It was made available by Martin >Bernheimer of the Los Angeles Times.) > > THE RECITAL, last evening in the chamber music room of the >Erawan Hotel by US Pianist Myron Kropp, the first appearance >of Mr. Kropp in Bangkok, can only be described by this >reviewer and those who witnessed Mr. Kropp's performance as >one of the most interesting experiences in a very long time. > > A hush fell over the room as Mr. Kropp appeared from the >right of the stage, attired in black formal evening-wear with >a small white poppy in his lapel. With sparse, sandy hair, a >sallow complexion and a deceptively frail looking frame, the >man who has repopularized Johann Sebastian Bach approached the >Baldwin Concert Grand, bowed to the audience and placed >himself upon the stool. > > It might be appropriate to insert at this juncture that >many pianists, including Mr. Kropp, prefer a bench, >maintaining that on a screw-type stool they sometimes find >themselves turning sideways during a particularly expressive >strain. There was a slight delay, in fact, as Mr Kropp left >the stage briefly, apparently in search of a bench, but >returned when informed that there was none. > > AS I HAVE mentioned on several other occasions, the Baldwin >Concert Grand, while basically a fine instrument, needs >constant attention, particularly in a climate such as Bangkok. >This is even more true when the instrument is as old as the >one provided in the chamber music room of the Erawan Hotel. >In this humidity the felts which separate the white keys from >the black tend to swell, causing an occasional key to stick, >which apparently was the case last evening with the D in the >second octave. > > During the 'raging storm' section of the D-Minor Toccata >and Fugue, Mr. Kropp must be complimented for putting up with >the awkward D. However, by the time the 'storm' was past and >he had gotten into the Prelude and Fugue in D Major, in which >the second octave D plays a major role, Mr. Kropp's patience >was wearing thin. > > Some who attended the performance later questioned whether >the awkward key justified some of the language which was heard >coming from the stage during softer passages of the fugue. >However, one member of the audience, who had sent his children >out of the room by the midway point of the fugue, had a valid >point when he commented over the music and extemporaneous >remarks of Mr. Kropp that the workman who had greased the >stool might have done better to use some of the grease on the >second octave D. Indeed, Mr. Kropp's stool had more than >enough grease and during one passage in which the music and >lyrics were both particularly violent, Mr. Kropp was turned >completely around. Whereas before his remarks had been aimed >largely at the piano and were therefore somewhat muted, to his >surprise and that of those in the chamber music room he found >himself addressing himself directly to the audience. > > BUT SUCH THINGS do happen, and the person who began to >laugh deserves to be severely reprimanded for this undignified >behavior. Unfortunately, laughter is contagious, and by the >time it had subsided and the audience had regained its >composure Mr. Kropp appeared somewhat shaken. Nevertheless, >he swiveled himself back into position facing the piano and, >leaving the D Major Fugue unfinished, commenced on the >Fantasia and Fugue in G Minor. > > Why the concert grand piano's G key in the third octave >chose that particular time to begin sticking I hesitate to >guess. However, it is certainly safe to say that Mr. Kropp >himself did nothing to help matters when he began using his >feet to kick the lower portion of the piano instead of >operating the pedals as is generally done. > > Possibly it was this jarring or the un-Bach-like hammering >to which the sticking keyboard was being subjected. Something >caused the right front leg of the piano to buckle slightly >inward, leaving the entire instrument listing at approximately >a 35-degree angle from that which is normal. A gasp went up >from the audience, for if the piano had actually fallen >several of Mr. Kropp's toes if not both his feet, would surely >have been broken. > > It was with a sigh of relief therefore, that the audience >saw Mr. Kropp slowly rise from his stool and leave the stage. >A few men in the back of the room began clapping and when Mr. >Kropp reappeared a moment later it seemed he was responding to >the ovation. Apparently, however, he had left to get a red- >handled fire ax which was hung back stage in case of fire, for >that was what was in his hand. > > MY FIRST REACTION at seeing Mr. Kropp begin to chop at the >left leg of the grand piano was that he was attempting to make >it tilt at the same angle as the right leg and thereby correct >the list. However, when the weakened legs finally collapsed >altogether with a great crash and Mr. Kropp continued to chop, >it became obvious to all that he had no intention of going on >with the concert. > > The ushers, who had heard the snapping of piano wires and >splintering of sounding board from the dining room, came >rushing in and, with the help of the hotel manager, two Indian >watchmen and a passing police corporal, finally succeeded in >disarming Mr. Kropp and dragging him off the stage, thus ending one of >the most memorable musical experiences of the season. > > > > From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 2:31 am Subject: Re: TD midi files Really-From: feldon@n... At 06:01 PM 3/9/97 -0800, you wrote: >Really-From: Mark Filipak > > >Hrumph! (Of course.) And I suppose the Sound Blasters don't have a >MIDI out. -- Mark A joke, I presume... There is a MIDI in/MIDI out/joystick combo port on the back, with a silly 9 pin connector which requires a pricey adapter which has MIDI in, MIDI out, and joystick wires dangling off of it. The adapter is $29. Morgan feldon@n... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 2:32 am Subject: Paul Nagle Really-From: TheSmitter@a... Slightly off topic, but Paul Nagle's music was recommended on this list several days ago. Where can you purchase his cds? I've tried the online catalogs of Eurock, Progtron and CDNow. None of them list his music. I saw them listed in an old C&D CDS catalog, but they take next to forever to fill an order. Can anyone help? Thanks, Larry Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1616 Re: Paul Nagle Mark Filipak Mon 3/10/1997 2 KB 1617 Re: Paul Nagle Andrew J. Rozsa Mon 3/10/1997 3 KB 1662 Re: Paul Nagle gary.cresswell1@v... Mon 3/10/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 2:32 am Subject: D: Network 388 Although the styles of each of the pieces on this tape are different, one can see in some of them the definite TD influence, on others it's more subtle or esoteric. It's also kinda nice to expand one's impressions of the ML members by other means than pixels on my CRT. 'Beyond The Horizon' should stick a blurb about _Network_388_ in the 'Fan Projects' section, as there are a number of subscribers who also have 'Net access (how do you think that Robert's yelling 'Edgar, play guitar!' got on my tape of the SIR Theatre show?) I believe that BTH will now be compiling email address' for the quarterly member directory database. bottom line? 4AS 'We throw each piece of equipment three times out of the third floor of our studio complex. If it's still functioning properly, we'll take it on the road. If not, we send it back to Tokyo!...' -- Edgar Froese (founder of Tangerine Dream), on the easy way they decide on which instruments to take on the road. /^\ | pete | penfold@a... | | | YA .semi.random.sig.quote From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 3:58 am Subject: BtS question Really-From: Paul Edwards Troops, On the track 'Drunken Mozart' on Froese's BEYOND THE STORM, there is this lovely 70's sounding section that starts at about 5:40 and goes through until beyond the 9 minute mark. Does anyone know if this has been released in another form before (it sounds very familiar, but I can't place it...) Thanks, Paul -- Paul Edwards * IT Consultant * email: p.edwards@i... Services Delivery, ITS * Phone: +61 3 934 44624 The University of Melbourne * Fax: +61 3 9347 4803 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Never explain - your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you anyhow. - Elbert Hubbard Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1627 Re: BtS question Paul Nagle Mon 3/10/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 3:50 am Subject: SB MIDI (no TD content) Really-From: Mark Filipak tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: feldon@n... > > At 06:01 PM 3/9/97 -0800, you wrote: > >Really-From: Mark Filipak > > > > > >Hrumph! (Of course.) And I suppose the Sound Blasters don't have a > >MIDI out. -- Mark > > A joke, I presume... There is a MIDI in/MIDI out/joystick combo port > on the back, with a silly 9 pin connector which requires a pricey > adapter which has MIDI in, MIDI out, and joystick wires dangling off > of it. The adapter is $29. > > Morgan > feldon@n... It's understandable that it would be a 9-pin. After all, there's not much room on the back plate -- two 15-pin connectors along with the various analog outputs would be impossible. But $29 is a bit of a rip. I'll bet there's an aftermarket breakout cable, not from Creative Labs, that someone is selling for a reasonable price. I don't have a Sound Blaster, but (to someone who does) does the documentation show the pinout for this 9-pin connector? Cheers -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1614 SB MIDI (no TD content) Mark Filipak Mon 3/10/1997 3 KB 1634 Re: SB MIDI (no TD content) Pixel Mon 3/10/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 3:50 am Subject: SB MIDI (no TD content) Really-From: Mark Filipak tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: feldon@n... > > At 06:01 PM 3/9/97 -0800, you wrote: > >Really-From: Mark Filipak > > > > > >Hrumph! (Of course.) And I suppose the Sound Blasters don't have a > >MIDI out. -- Mark > > A joke, I presume... There is a MIDI in/MIDI out/joystick combo port > on the back, with a silly 9 pin connector which requires a pricey > adapter which has MIDI in, MIDI out, and joystick wires dangling off > of it. The adapter is $29. > > Morgan > feldon@n... It's understandable that it would be a 9-pin. After all, there's not much room on the back plate -- two 15-pin connectors along with the various analog outputs would be impossible. But $29 is a bit of a rip. I'll bet there's an aftermarket breakout cable, not from Creative Labs, that someone is selling for a reasonable price. I don't have a Sound Blaster, but (to someone who does) does the documentation show the pinout for this 9-pin connector? Cheers -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 3:59 am Subject: Re: Poland Midi file - poland.mid Really-From: Mark Filipak Sorry Phil. My system locks up when I try to play POLAND.MID. It plays other midi files just fine, but this one seems to have a problem. I tried several times with different midi players. Better luck next time. -- Mark PS: Here's a clue: if I save the file it has a MID file-extension as you would expect. But if I try to play it directly in Netscape (ver 3.0) I get a message that it has an unknown file-extension. Sorry, I haven't a clue what's going on. -- M tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: Philip Meyer > > Well, here it is... > > -----------Philip Meyer-------------- > phil@h... > amarok@c... > ------------------------------------- > > Name: poland.mid > Part 1.2 Type: MIDI (audio/x-midi) > Encoding: x-uuencode Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1664 Re: Poland Midi file - poland.mid Philip Meyer Tue 3/11/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 4:10 am Subject: Re: Paul Nagle Really-From: Mark Filipak I would email Rajit at ProgTron directly. ranjit@n... (Ranjit Padmanabhan) He has a lot more stuff than what is on his web page. -- Mark tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: TheSmitter@a... > > Slightly off topic, but Paul Nagle's music was recommended on this list > several days ago. Where can you purchase his cds? I've tried the online > catalogs of Eurock, Progtron and CDNow. None of them list his music. I > saw them listed in an old C&D CDS catalog, but they take next to > forever to fill an order. Can anyone help? > > Thanks, > Larry From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 9, 1997 10:39 pm Subject: Re: Paul Nagle Really-From: 'Andrew J. Rozsa' At 09:32 PM 3/9/97 -0500, you wrote: >Really-From: TheSmitter@a... > > >Slightly off topic, but Paul Nagle's music was recommended on this list >several days ago. Where can you purchase his cds? I've tried the online >catalogs of Eurock, Progtron and CDNow. None of them list his music. I saw >them listed in an old C&D CDS catalog, but they take next to forever to fill >an order. Can anyone help? > >Thanks, >Larry Hi, Larry I just saw the first two of the Elements series ('Wavedancer' and 'Firedancer') in the Eurock Web catalog. Archie is putting the finishing touches on newer one, due out at end of March (he says). OTOH, Paul himself is a very accommodating person.... he may be able to make some arrangements directly. Check his stuff out at: http://www.softroom.demon.co.uk With all due respect to the rest of the English contingent of e-music composers/musicians (Air Sculpture, Radio Massacre International, Andy Pick, etc.) I prefer Paul's music. But I am not a 'soft' music listener; I prefer a bit of 'punch.' Oh, Paul's stuff gets better as he ages. :-) Isn't it a bitch that once you are done listening to ALL of TD's stuff, there is so little to choose from? Or, is it that TD has spoiled us for anyone else? There seems to have been a subtle, but recurrent theme with respect to this comment for years. On this list and elsewhere. Happy dreaming.... Andrew From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 5:30 am Subject: Re: Introduction Really-From: PNaunton@a... In a message dated 97-03-08 10:33:58 EST, you write: << I found Unknown Soldier rather uninspired, and didn't care for Music for Films, either. So if you liked ALL the others, I'm assuming Raven is REALLY bad. :-) Phil D. >> I too, was disappointed. It is only 50% Franke; every other track. Thank god for CD programming. That other stuff is absolutely the pits.........and Frank's is only so-so. Maybe one cut is worth it.........maybe not. Phin Naunton Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 8212 Introduction John Von Pey Fri 10/31/1997 4 KB 8226 Re: Introduction PNaunton@a... Sun 11/2/1997 3 KB 8412 Re: Introduction John Von Pey Wed 11/5/1997 3 KB 8228 Re: Introduction Greg Heil Sun 11/2/1997 3 KB 8238 Re: Introduction DJS Sun 11/2/1997 4 KB 19962 Introduction James Chapman Wed 12/22/1999 1 KB 19966 Re: Introduction Owens, James E Wed 12/22/1999 1 KB 19990 Re: Introduction Gustavo Jobim Fri 12/24/1999 2 KB 22812 Introduction Storely Kracklite Mon 6/5/2000 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 5:32 am Subject: Re: stuff Really-From: PNaunton@a... In a message dated 97-03-08 05:15:47 EST, you write: << and HOW do you pronounce 'chi'--like 'cheee ' (long e) as in cheese? or like the italian which would be 'key'? or like 'chiiii' (long i) as in chives? or more like the french, sounding like 'she' or ??? or like the 'english' 'chick' (with a short i) or ????? thanks lars (growl) >> Actually, according to my possible misinformation, I believe it is 'shy' (long i & soft ch) like 'Shy People'. This really doesn't make much sense, though, because it is supposed to be a connection with Chicago which is where she originally hails. That's Chicago (short i & soft ch) like Shick the electric shaver people. Hope this hasn't been too confusing. Phil Naunton from Chicago Phil Naunton From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 5:27 am Subject: TD Gouped by Style - an anal retentive analysis Really-From: Mark Filipak Hi All. I'm doing an introduction to TD for the uninitiated/seeker and was wondering if the consensus views things the way I do. Below I have the major album releases pretty finely sliced and diced. I think we will all agree on what I call 'The 84/85 Great Divide', but I'm wondering about the finer divisions. Of course, there is some overlap and these divisions are not clean, but I think all would agree that, for example, 'LotB' is qualitatively different enough from 'US' to warrant a division between them. Whether 'CD' is above or below that dividing line is a quibble point. The important thing is: do you agree that there is a dividing line there someplace? Soundscapes and Symphonies are monolithic, the difference being in their internal constructions. A suite is a series of interrelated songs connected by bridges to form a single expression. A concept is a series of interrelated songs not bridged. BTW, these are in chronological order of composition, not album release, hense 'CD' may seem out of place but isn't really. EXPERIMENT: Electronic Meditation SOUNDSCAPES: Alpha Centauri Zeit Atem SYMPHONIES: Phaedra Rubycon Ricochet Stratosfear Encore EXPERIMENTS: Cyclone Force Majeure SUITES: Pergamon Tangram Exit White Eagle Logos Hyperborea Poland === The 84/85 Great Divide === CONCEPTS: Le Parc Underwater Sunlight Tyger Livemiles Canyon Dreams SONG COLLECTIONS: Optical Race (aka: TD-lite?) Lily on the Beach Melrose Rockoon 220 Volt Turn of the Tides Tyranny of Beauty EXPERIMENTS: The Dream Mixes Goblins' Club The divisions above seem to broadly correlate with changes in the band's personnel. I don't know much about when polyphonic synths and samplers were first used, but could it be that what I have as 'experiments' correlate with these major changes in technology? Specifically, does 1978 ('Cyclone' & 'FM') correlate with the band's first use of polyphonic synths? -- seems a little early to me. Does 1985 ('DM') mark the first use of samplers in a big way? -- seems a little late to me. Comments and flames are welcome. -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 5:54 am Subject: Re: stuff Really-From: Mark Filipak tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: PNaunton@a... > > In a message dated 97-03-08 05:15:47 EST, you write: > > << and HOW do you pronounce 'chi'--like 'cheee ' (long e) as in > cheese? or like the italian which would be 'key'? or like 'chiiii' > (long i) as in chives? or more like the french, sounding like 'she' > or ??? or like the 'english' 'chick' (with a short i) or ????? > > thanks > lars (growl) >> > > Actually, according to my possible misinformation, I believe > it is 'shy' (long i & soft ch) like 'Shy People'. This really doesn't > make much sense, though, because it is supposed to be a connection > with Chicago which is where she originally hails. That's Chicago > (short i & soft ch) like Shick the electric shaver people. Hope this > hasn't been too confusing. > > Phil Naunton from Chicago > > Phil Naunton The people 'in the biz' that I have heard use his name, and who would probably know him and, presumably, his wishes on how his name should be pronounced, have all said 'Chee' as in 'Cheese' -- in fact, very short on the consonants, sort of a clipped 'Ch' followed by a longish 'eee'. -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 6:23 am Subject: emusic faves Really-From: LADY OF THE LIZARDS my top 10 emusics: (In no order) Vangelis-Beaubourg TD-Hyperborea J Schmoelling-Zoo of T E Froese-Stuntman P Gabriel-Birdy TD-Tangram M Hoenig-Departure from ... TD-Pergamon TD-Thief W Carlos-Tron some are st's. rr NP:Horowitz-Horowitz at home Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1651 Re: emusic faves Plumer, Scott Mon 3/10/1997 2 KB 1665 TD Does the Classics Sean Montgomery Tue 3/11/1997 2 KB 1691 Re: emusic faves PNaunton@a... Tue 3/11/1997 2 KB 1705 Re: emusic faves Plumer, Scott Tue 3/11/1997 2 KB 1910 Re: emusic faves Saa Sekuliæ/Sasha Sekulich Sun 3/16/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 7:00 am Subject: Re: stuff Really-From: PNaunton@a... In a message dated 97-03-10 00:56:20 EST, you write: << The people 'in the biz' that I have heard use his name, and who would probably know him and, presumably, his wishes on how his name should be pronounced, have all said 'Chee' as in 'Cheese' -- in fact, very short on the consonants, sort of a clipped 'Ch' followed by a longish 'eee'. -- Mark >> You may have something there. Years ago when there was a hit called 'Thunder And Lightning' in Chicago, every DJ I heard pronounced it 'Shy', but what do they know? I think, however, that you'll find she's female. Phil Naunton From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 4:15 pm Subject: Network Really-From: ath@s... (Armin Theissen) > >Hi all, > >I, too, would like to thank Lars for raising the subject of the Network 388 >tape. As a contributor I was dismayed by the apparent lack of interest in >the material given that much of the music was written by TD fans for TD >fans. I would strongly recommend that members of the digest have a listen >[...] > I would really like to listen to this tape. What do I have to do to get one? Armin Theissen ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Armagh Observatory email: ath@s... College Hill http://www.astro.uni-bonn.de/~theissen Armagh, BT61 9DG Phone: (+44) 1861 522928 Northern Ireland Fax: (+44) 1861 527174 From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 9:12 am Subject: Re: Poland Midi file - poland.mid Really-From: 'Marcel Engels' > Sorry Phil. My system locks up when I try to play POLAND.MID. It plays > other midi files just fine, but this one seems to have a problem. I > tried several times with different midi players. Better luck next time. > -- Mark On my system it played perfectly well. Did nothing special. Mark, ready with Macula and Ages. You'll be getting them soon. Marcel From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 4:15 pm Subject: edgar and boots Really-From: ath@s... (Armin Theissen) > >There's this funny idea going around that Edgar doesn't like bootlegs and >people ripping off his music which struck me as being odd in that some of >the bootlegs doing the rounds (Spherical Harmonics to name but one...) are >so clean that they can only have come from either a radio broadcast or the >mixing desk. I'll stand corrected if Spherical Harmonics did indeed come >from a radio broadcast but if not then surely this means that someone on >the roadcrew was recording the concert with a view to bootlegging the >performance at a later date. Or...dare I suggest it? Is it likely that a >member of TD is releasing these recordings, perhaps to feed an insatiable >demand from their fans? > > Edgar handed over the tape recording of the Berlin Reichstag concert to Winfried Trenkler, DJ of the (no longer existing) german radio show 'Schwingungen' - a show dedicated to electronic (popular) music (so no Stockhausen etc). Obviously, he *wanted* this thing to be distributed, and he couldn't do it the 'legal' way because of different rights at different publishers. Another volunteerly radio broadcast in germany was the boot called 'relativity' which had about one hour live radio broadcast in March 1986, I guess, introducing Paul Haslinger. That is the boot starting with 'Stratosfear'. Wonderful stuff. Armin Theissen ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Armagh Observatory email: ath@s... College Hill http://www.astro.uni-bonn.de/~theissen Armagh, BT61 9DG Phone: (+44) 1861 522928 Northern Ireland Fax: (+44) 1861 527174 From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 4:48 pm Subject: Re: BtS question Really-From: Paul Nagle On Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:58:22 +1100, you wrote: >On the track 'Drunken Mozart' on Froese's BEYOND THE STORM, there is this >lovely 70's sounding section that starts at about 5:40 and goes through >until beyond the 9 minute mark. Does anyone know if this has been released >in another form before (it sounds very familiar, but I can't place it...) It's from 'Stuntman' - Edgar's masterpiece (in my opinion)... Paul --------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ ------- Paul Nagle - paul@s... www.softroom.demon.co.uk (Upd. 06/03/97) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ ------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 10:09 am Subject: stuff part 2 Really-From: 'Lars R. Jones' <105411.3107@c...> dreamers having just cruised all the music stores in london proper, just a few observations: the Tangents box set costs over $110 here -- but I've seen it for less than $50 in the US! (eg: we in the US have no right to complain about the price!) DRC--if you find it mail order in the US for less than $50 that is a good price since the LOWEST store price here is $51! does anyone know anything about the merchandising for the euro tour? eg, any special releases? lars From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 10:12 am Subject: Greek TV (was Re: Three Phase Video) Really-From: 'Grant Middleton' > Really-From: G.K.Naughton@i... > Also, I believe that the 1984 Athens concert was broadcast on Greek > TV Yeah, I got a boot of this. It's essentially 'Logos' and 'Poland' era stage show and brief interviews with Chris, Johannes and Edgar, conducted in English ! Unfortunately, my copy shows up in B/W as the Greek TV system uses SECAM, I believe. It contains much of 'Logos' (not the very start, unfortunately), and other popular live tracks from the period like 'Choronzon'. Lots of full stage shots and roving 'finger' shots. Not quite as dynamic as Jimi Hendrix, but it might get the technoheads horny ! I include myself in that category, before the flames start. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _.^~~~~~\ Grunt ! [, @ E-Mail : grantm@d... \______/ /\ /\ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 10:08 am Subject: d:Underwater sunlight Really-From: 'Lars R. Jones' <105411.3107@c...> d:underwater sunlight 4AS There, I've admitted it ... this is not the perfect album (sorry craig!) . I think Bob F said this was one of three albums (w/LP, &??) that forever relegated TD to the new-age section. I, however, am not sure this is a new age album (now, celestine prophecy, that IS a new age album-yeeech!); in fact this seems pretty distant from it. I can buy your comments in relation to LP or Heartbreakers or... but not to US. Oh well, that is just my opinion. I had a hard time dealing with this album, both when it first came out and now, trying to write a review. Oh, don't get me wrong, I love it, but it is, to me, so different. Sure, I can fit it in with their work at this time but it also just seems so out of place (not in a bad way)--here are some long tracks again, edgar's wailing guitar and some of this stuff really rocks. and that song of the whale, wow, what do I make of that? It is almost orchestral. I think part of the problem is conceptual. The album lays out Song... as parts 1 & 2 as if they were one piece. But they are easier to treat as separate works. I can see them as movements to some degree, but then it seems there should be at least one more movement if not two.... (I know, there are only two parts to the day...) I'd really like to know more about TDs experiences that led to this album... did they actually spend some time whalewatching and diving or ? Song of the whale parts1, 5AS I am heading out to sea in a small but fast motorboat. the sun is reflecting brightly on the calm waters this morning... up ahead there's something, we throttle back. the giant humpbacks surface; phoooooooosh (ever smell whale breath? yeeech, but at least it smells better than celestine prophecy!!!! :-) phooooossshh. then back down. up again, then down. SLAM! tail lob, now they know we are here. we continue to follow them. they are heading in a straight line toward the horizon, coming up for a breath and back down, up for a breath and back down, up for a breath, then they're gone for a few minutes. we follow, marvelling in the sight of one of the largest creatures that has ever lived. each of its pectoral fins are longer than our boat, everything is so peaceful, then BREACH! BOOOM! BREACH! (5:12) that sound really sounds pretty close to a breaching whale hitting the water--well as close as you can get on a synthesizer without sampling the real sound... now it is a frenzy, the whales are playing, slamming the water with their pectoral fins, tail-lobbing and breaching, but just as quickly it is over and they are travelling again. Finally, one last breach and they disappear. this ending is, in someways, as much of an initial shock as the ending of the first side of Schulze's timewind... Song of the whale, part 2, 3AS this piano is really nice, but what a change of pace. obviously a place to show off the new member... Paul really was a great addition to TD; despite what others have said, I do feel his 'influence' in the almost orchestral quality to these works--why wouldn't edgar and chris trust the new kid? I mean they hired him didn't they? and he certainly wasn't there to sweep the floors. Edgar does speak highly of him now and of when he first joined the band. I tend to think that they gave him some free rein on this piece.. Why not? let him feel like an equal, like a part of the team. So some of the work had already been layed out, that doesn't mean he can't come in and change the flavor quite a bit... This piece gets much better around the 5:15 mark, and again with the guitar after about the 8 minute mark. Still, I think on average it is a 3as--albeit a very high 3as...... (so as a whole, these parts average out to a 4as) Dolphin Dance 5as I love this track--but what it needs, what it cries out for is a really good guitar solo by edgar --especially beginning around the 2 minute mark (which is why I think I mistakenly said this was the piece I saw edgar do a guitar solo to in 86--thanks to Bob F for setting the record straight!). Still, this really rocks big time; enough to give it a 5as! I love it. especially that climax around 4:15. Nevertheless, I've seen dolphins dance and this ain't it. Once while out fishing in baja (or on the way to diving, I can't remember) I saw about 300-500 dolphins in this truely mystical ballet; I'll never forget it. We were puttering along in this boat, it was a scow, but hey, all the more reason for another beer! then it was as if the sea opened up around us 360 degrees. there were dolphins leaping/breaching & spinning and doing flips literally as far as the eye could see. it was just unbelieveable. I wanted to take a picture, but that would have been like taking a one second sound bite out of this album, playing it over and over for all your friends, and saying, 'see, that's tangerine dream, they're awesome!'--nobody would ever believe you! I've seen whales breaching plenty of times and only one event (with about 5-6 humpbacks breaching like mad during a mild storm) even came close to this. Does anyone else ever have these 'mystical' experiences? they seem to happen to me every so often (luckily!); you know, you're just out in the middle of nowhere minding your damn own business then WHAM! the mysteries of the universe are set right down in front of you; and you realize there is absolutely nothing you can do.... you are just completely and totally irrelevant. but then as you watch it unfold, you realize you _are_ a part of it and therefore linked to it as part of the larger 'nous'. it really just puts everything in perspective... Now, back to TD, my point was that this track doesn't evoke dancing dolphins to me but it does definitely evoke them riding on the bow wakes; that is definitely cool and much more of a 'dance' the way 2-3 of them shift side to side and up and down and hop back and forth, now that really is the rhythm of this piece. and especially when it's just starting to get dark and the glow-in-the-dark plankton (sorry my mind is blank right now!, bio-luminescence...) are blooming and the dolphins are leaving these incredible light trails in front of the boat as they go.... wow, there are few things that can top that! Ride on the Ray 5as This is my favorite all-time performed-live TD track (which is probably why I give it a 5as and not just a 4as!). When I saw TD in Phoenix/Mesa in 86, edgar just did this wonderful guitar solo, it just tingled my spine. yes, the old man and his axe: do it! I'm sure that paul never ever got involved with this when I saw it. does anyone know of a tape from this concert? I'd do just about anything to find out. I know there is some boot somewhere with 5 minutes from phoenix so maybe there is more? which 5 minutes is it?? please can/would anyone help me out on this?????? (I suppose not if you are a celestine-yeeech-prophecy fan since I've already pushed your hot buttons...) I just think edgar is this wonderfully expressive guitar player. _One of the best ever_. let's not argue about this, I'm not a guitar player myself but I do know there is _no one_ anywhere who can reach into my soul with a guitar like edgar. wow!. scubax2, 3as this is more like 'laying on the beach in the sunshine' than scuba diving... it is sort of humdrum filler piece and barely makes the 3as grade. from what I remember dolphin smile is much better. UW twilight, 3as This isn't so bad, it just starts slow but then it gets moving a little... I can handle this... If I were home, I'd listen to dolphin smile but I can't remember how it goes... so I'll have to do the review like this. Straight average = 4 / timed average (value/minute) = 4.04 (that's a new method for mixing long and short tracks: rating x decimal time / total decimal time = overall score) overall, I'd give it a 4as definitely moving toward a 5 either way. It really evokes some powerful memories for me probably because I learned to scuba dive around this time and had, a few years previously, spent some time doing whale research. I connected with this album but felt like the overall concept was maybe more concrete even more literal then in previous works and that, I think, was somewhat confusing. lars From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 10:09 am Subject: d:wavelength Really-From: 'Lars R. Jones' <105411.3107@c...> d:wavelength 3AS I'm not going to go track by track with a rating, there are just too many short pieces. plus there is good stuff from here (eg pergamon) mixed with new stuff from there.. I suppose it is appropriate to do this with WE since both are 'set' in the southwest.. If they had done just a little more with this and made it a little more cohesive or let the new material run longer and as more fully developed works it would be a 4as but that is a problem I have with soundtracks in general, I guess it just goes with the turf. still, wavelength is definitely one of their better soundtracks; not as good as sorcerer or theif or legend or RB... but much better than flashpoint, firerstarter, etc. and about as good as heartbreakers 1) alien voices -- I like the voices, I wish there were more of them in td's music in general; not much else here 2) wavelength main title-- yea, this is ok, sort of moody but what of it 3) desert drive--pergamon piano part--definitely the best piece on the album this was released in the west well before the east german contract had expired... so I guess it was ok for them to release pieces of quichotte but not the whole thing? or are they slipping toward the grey area of violating that contract?? or are they just doing it for the money? :-) at least this is a longer track 4) mojave end title--yeech, kinda reminds me of the stuff on WE that I don't like... 5) healing--more moody scene filling music but with little bits of the pergamon part 2? transition music 6) breakout--definitely one of the better pieces on the album, but too short. why couldn't they have used this on WE instead of midnight in tula? it really is sort of WE derivative (the track) 7) alien goodbye -- I like this too, nice guitar, it sort of , kind of reminds me of the key/chords of the beginning of cloudburst flight... (but hey, I am not a musician so don't flame me if I'm wrong--at least I'm trying...) 8) space ship --more of pergamon, listen especially in the background at first!! here it is. man is this album ever full of pergamon! but it sounds like they master they are using has a really limited dynamic range 9) church theme -- mood filler, then about 2:00 it starts to get interesting 10) sunset drive -- one of the best pieces on this album. this could go on for 10 minutes and i'd be as happy as, well, an alien in a chocolate factory 11) airshaft -- I like this one too; lots of good tension & dissonance; I wish they would've done more with this piece. 12) alley walk -- more mood stuff, I can almost hear this being played in concert somewhere, was it? but then about 2:15 it sounds like a sorcerer redux this is great. why couldn't they have done this completely? sorcerer 1983? 13) cryolab -- more mood stuff here but this is a little better 14) running through the hills -- not bad either, why not develop it more? 15) campfire theme -- i'm definitely not into this piece 16) mojave end title reprise -- oh, there're some more alien voice mixed with some of the mojave plan crap. this is like a bright and sunshine-y hippy hoppy midnight in tula with some other alterations here and there... bits of good stuff then back to crap well, was this a half-assed review or what? I wish I could have seen this film before writing this review; I used to have it on tape and still should... I remember that TDs music went with it quite well and I remember it being a halfway decent film but not as good as carpenter's starman(?), is that about right? The music is much better than I remember it being but there are only a few soundtracks that really work for me so this only gets a 3as--but a mid-range 3as. I also think the sound quality on this cd is really limited, I can hear the music being limited (clipped?) at top and bottom, it is really annoying.... this is especially apparent on the last track. I have the varese saraband VCD 47223. Anyway, one last question. Now I don't want to alienate anybody here (haha couldn't resist) but what the hell really ever happened in Roswell anyway?? Something happened, the military was there, there was some blackout put into effect, but how much of this is urban legend or twilight zone/x-files? there must be a URL for this somewhere... cheers lars Ps, what did the alien tape deck say to the earth-tape? ' take me to your leader....' (hmmmm,it smells like something's burning here, it must be time to go...) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1669 Re: d:wavelength Rich Maggio Tue 3/11/1997 3 KB 1730 Re: d:wavelength Simon W. Hood Wed 3/12/1997 3 KB 1732 Concert Recordings Sean Montgomery Wed 3/12/1997 2 KB 1777 Re: Concert Recordings dbrewer@a... Wed 3/12/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 10:09 am Subject: d:white eagle Really-From: 'Lars R. Jones' <105411.3107@c...> d:white eagle, 3as OK, so I am jumping the gun on this one by a week, well, shoot me. There was a time when this was one of my absolute all-time favorite TD albums and I listened to it for hours on end. Nevertheless, it hasn't been high on the rotation list (which does tend to favor d:list stuff) and playing it for this review proved to be quite problematic. I thought nothing of investing in a SBM of this (tand2) and then when I put it on, I thought, oh, that is not as good as I remembered it. I put on the virgin release, same thought. maybe it is definitely nothing to do with the engineering/mastering here, maybe I have just grown apart from this cd. Previously I talked about the 'mountain peak effect' well this one is, appropriately, a victim of the 'grand canyon effect'--good stuff at the beginning and the end and a lot of mediocre filler in between I'd rate the first 10 minutes of mojave plan as 4as+ and white eagle as a 5as (although a low 5 but it used to be my #2 fav) and the rest somewhere much lower, way way way down there. But hey, the cover art is cool... Mojave plan: 3as (part I=4 + part 2=2 /2 =3as) This track, as a whole, starts out great and then changes gears and slides down into the canyon. I used to love to turn the lights off (well, except for the black lite!) and sit back and crank this part up (well, actually, that doesn't sound too bad right about now). This first part has that trademark slow, relaxing, introduction that separates you from the external world and allows you to turn inward. then it starts to build and churn.. the sounds (as I am sure they were meant to) remind me a lot of the southwest, places I loved to go (but more of the sonoran desert than the mojave). As I listen to it, I can see the gnarled scrub oaks, smell the alligator juniper, feel that blast of hot air, hear the cicadas and the phianopepla (a desert bird, something like a black cardinal) whistling back and forth with me (I'd much rather be there...) the melody builds to a peak, the tones used in the melody seem to climb higher and higher; then around 8:20 the first of a sort of distant electric thunder clap reminds me of watching the lightshows provided by the desert monsoons--but wait! 9:30 screeeeaaaaammmmm! oooh baby we are peaking now (damn that was too short, less than 20 seconds) and the wind down is really too quick too (and to think that they were just this close || to a 5as on the first part!) .... now we move into the 'second part'; at 10:30, we're-a-working on the railroad... but this rhythm ain't so bad, until that annoying chord progression starts about 30-45 seconds later--this is drivel until 12:10 when the crashing and gurgling comes (this reminds me more of the footage in Oasis (the storm part) than some of that music does. sadly it just doesn't keep it up and we are back to drivel.... what is going on here? a little bit of this and a little bit of that, can't we keep a theme going? I love the voices around 14:30 but I'm still not sure where we are going, we seem to be looking for direction. 15:10: wait, I think we've found something, here we go, (and to think this isn't an unsuccessful improvisation! who would've ever known?!) now we are on the right track, I like this last part but it is just too little too late. Why do I get the feeling that the second half of this track is just thrown together (oh, I know, this must be where they are giving the janitor a chance!)... whoa, that was getting a little mean there wasn't it? Ok, I take back that last part, I think.... Midnight in Tula 2as/ erase erase 1as :-( this starts with the junk from mojave plan part2 that I don't like and just gets worse when that comic-book beat comes in... I like some of the sounds (that pop-echo) but I have always been annoyed by this track (I would never admit that before but it is time to come out of the closet; and while we are on the subject of damning self disclosure, I should probably say that I listen to Hootie too). This track is this close || to getting a 1as and if I listen to it much longer I will just have to re-calculate my score! thank god it is a short track because it has to be my least favorite from the schmoelling and haslinger eras combined! OK, that's it, it's toooooo f'ing long, it is now a 1as! snarl! damn, where'd I put that Hootie cd? Convention of the 24 3as this isn't so bad at all, in fact I can live with this (hence the 3as) but it would be nice if it went somewhere during its 10 minutes... these are the parts of mojave plan that I do like. hmmmmm, maybe mojave plan part two really is a last minute addition to fill out the vinyl???? I really like this, I'm just about ready to bump it up to a 4as--if only it had a little more 'edge' White Eagle 5as This is such a classic track. Now why is it that I bitch about short-length tracks and the move away from long ones when two of my all-time favorite tracks are shorter ones? well go figure (well, at least they still follow the epic format). This is one song that actually might sound better analog than digital but that might be my memory again.... This is also one track that really NEEDS to be played with base or a subwoofer and needs plenty of volume to breath adequately--it works ok on headphones but I really think it is a 'room' piece; I think this is their most ''atmospheric' piece--that is, with the most PRESENCE--sort of like a good concert. This is just not a conversation piece. the lower range of this piece is just outstanding and has a life of its own. about 3:56-7 there is an odd break in the fabric, does anyone else hear this? Unless it is a master error, it doesn't sound like a CD flaw... there's just a little temporal rift or something, maybe something in a tape loop... I love that one 'peak' tone-- first heard about 2:41, & 2:48 & 3:02 & 3:07 & 3:19 & 3:27... na-na-nAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-- played on the right system and the right floor (you just cannot beat a real hardwood floor set above a crawl space or something so that it just resonates!) it just shrieks and make the hair rise on my neck and gives me goose bumps. Is it OK to like a song for just one sound? I used to play this track so loud it made the walls and windows shake (this song is my criterion for judging speakers--as loud as possible without distortion and if they survive this tone intact, they get my WE seal of approval.. what? sorry, repeat please...). I hate the version on 'das maedchen ...' and the version on tangents because they lack this wonderous, mystical sound (Ok, something like it appears on those versions but it is definitely not the same, its like eating sand when you were expecting ice cream!) --I wish this sound would reappear again in TD's repetoire. This piece reminds me of one of my favorite spots: when I lived in arizona I used to go up to the mogollon rim a lot and there was this one place (promontory point, I think) just north of christopher creek that is a big massive cliff that juts out of the tree line and drops about 500 feet; from there, you can feel the updrafts rising from the valley below and see well over a hundred miles past several other ridges/ranges that slowly fade into a distant haze of blue. After hiking up, I used to watch the hawks and vultures circle on the updrafts here and thought often of TD. I would just sit on the edge hanging my feet over and wishing that I too could fly, just metamorphose into a bird and jump. I think this disc (and my memory of it) are all bound together with this one period in my life and in historical retrospective, the music fails to live up to the real experience that I linked with it. straight average 2.75 / timed average 3 (whoooaaa, that means I scored TOTT higher than WE? maybe this is the beginning of senile dementia? I have been thinking about my TOTT score, 4 seems high but 3 seems low. Is it better than WE?, well, I think about the same.... what does one do with two pieces of such uneven work?) and with that, I'll step back and let the flames begin 'there's nothing like the smell of napalm in the morning...' lars From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 7:25 pm Subject: Re: TD midi files Really-From: Pixel > A joke, I presume... There is a MIDI in/MIDI out/joystick combo port on the > back, with a silly 9 pin connector which requires a pricey adapter which has > MIDI in, MIDI out, and joystick wires dangling off of it. The adapter is $29. If you shop around you will surely find it at $15. GG From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 7:34 pm Subject: Re: SB MIDI (no TD content) Really-From: Pixel > that someone is selling for a reasonable price. I don't have a Sound > Blaster, but (to someone who does) does the documentation show the > pinout for this 9-pin connector? Cheers -- Mark There are several documentations around about the 9-pin connector. But note: you need to build a small circuitry into the cable which is included with all 'factory-origined' cable. It does an optoelectronic isolation for the computer's MIDI input port because of protection. GG From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: (Date Unavailable) Subject: Re: gawdawful TD Joke :) Really-From: G.K.Naughton@i... Here's a very 'in' Klaus Schulze joke that I thought up ALL BY MYSELF... Q: If the Village People did a tribute to Klaus Schulze, what would it be called? A: Y.M.T.I. So...should I go for a career in comedy or wot? :-) Glynn From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 1:06 pm Subject: D: This week Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' Wavelength Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 2167 D: This week Plumer, Scott Mon 3/31/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 1:23 pm Subject: D: The List Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' This is what's remaining plus the added items. If I negelected any let me know. Scott Wavelength: Mar 10 <---- this week White Eagle: Mar 17 Zeit: Mar 24 Zoning: Mar 31 Dream Roots Collection, Disc 5: Apr 7 Goblin's Club: Apr 14 Oasis: Apr 21 Rumpelstiltskin: Apr 28 Shepherd's Bush: May 5 Tangents, Disc 5: May 12 From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 2:22 pm Subject: Re: Beyond the Horizon, the Storm Really-From: TWeibre361@a... In a message dated 97-03-09 11:02:49 EST, you write: << Finally, I just can't let this go without comment: >> battle lines are really unnecessary because froese doesnt have a pot to piss in...if he doesnt like what they write about him, tough shit...<< Edgar has as much right to comment negatively about BTH on his web page as BTH has to criticize him in it's magazine. If you think that Edgar is overly sensitive about what is written about him, well, I can speak from personal experience that the Editor in Chief of BTH is at LEAST as sensitive to perceived criticism if not more so. >>Bob<< >> i agree with you wholeheartedly...both sides can say whatever they want...and both sides are gonna have to take the lumps...just as you and i do...and for this reason, i stated that 'battle lines are unnecessary', because there are no winners or losers...if edgar wants to criticize bth, so be it, who cares?...if bth wants to respond, let them, its their mag...doesnt mean i gotta read it or buy it...just as i dont gotta buy edgars product....criticism, flack, flames are all a part of life...but in the grand scheme of things, does it really matter? tom w np: hia - freefloater From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: Baumann's Compilation CD: PHASE-BY-PHASE Really-From: Steven Feldman >Subject: Re: TD POCKET DISCOGRAPHY 5.0 >From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) >Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 15:30:32 GB-EIRE >Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > >Steven, > >Did you miss Baumann's Phase-By-Phase compilation CD from >his solo section? Maybe you don't include compilations? I do include compilations. I was not aware of the existence of this Baumann CD. When and where did it come out? What's on it, etc. Steven Feldman ^ ^ ^ SUBSCRIBED TO: Dreams Word, ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ________ ^ ^ 33 Brook St #3 ^ ^ ^ Emdreams, CNI News, Contact ^ ^ ^ __--- ---_ Brookline Mass ^ ^ ^ Forum, _PEER_ Perspectives, ^ ^ - _ \ 02146-6913 USA ^ ^ ^ the Nausicaa list, Tadream, ^ ^ | /_/ \ | (617) 232-3876 ^ ^ ^ & Hong Kong Film Connection ^ ^_- __/_// __ |/ BITNET: ar402004@b... ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ - (|/ '()` <()/ ^ INTERNET: sfeldman@w... ^ ^ ^ ^ \_ O .> | ^ HAYAO MIYAZAKI DISCUSSION GROUP: nausicaa@b... ^ /--_/ -__ -- / ^ <*> Address for subscribing: listserv@b... <*> ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ --- ^ ^ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1683 Re: Baumann's Compilation CD: PHASE-BY-PHASE Craig R. J. Cordrey Tue 3/11/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 11:33 pm Subject: Re: tadream-digest V15 #858 Really-From: ashok prema >From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) >Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 22:39:19 >Subject: Re: Paul Nagle > >Really-From: 'Andrew J. Rozsa' > > >Isn't it a bitch that once you are done listening to ALL of TD's stuff, there >is so little to choose from? Or, is it that TD has spoiled us for anyone else? >There seems to have been a subtle, but recurrent theme with respect to this >comment for years. On this list and elsewhere. > >Happy dreaming.... > >Andrew > >------------------------------ Here I disagree vehemently!! The music is there alright! I am sure that fellow contributors/musicians David Hughes and Paul Nagle will agree - there is in fact APATHY towards other musicians from TD fans in general! This is proven by the recent letters regarding the Network tape - which purports to present music of a simialr genre to TD's - yet has not had a great response from the list memers - either in ordering it - or responding to its content. It is a constant source of irritation to myself and fellow musicians that our music does not get the exposure it deserves - by dint of the fact that we are- as yet - and no doubt will remain - nobodies. It rarely gets played by the radio stations who are content to satisfy the mass market - and providing a platform for Rock, Soul, Jazz, Classical etc etc - but NOT em/synth music. It is then more galling for us when even fans of TD's music - from whence our inspirations are generally derived - and with it, a certain amount of similarity - also ignore our efforts - and then bleat on about how poor TD's output is now - and why can't they go back to their original style etc etc. Yet ignoring totally the fine output of us 'yet to make it big' musicians. Both Messrs Nagle and Hughes (aka Tranquility Bass) names have graced these columns - as being musicians of quality - yet how many orders have they received I wonder from other list members?? Indeed - how many have visited their web-sites to discover what its all about?? Et Tu Brutus?? Ashok Prema (composer of 'Of Times & Places' the reveiw of which reads: appeal to anyone looking for something a bit different, but doesn't want to be drawn into anything too abstract or challenging. Accessible, yet orignal enough to stand out from the crowd - this music will impress a wide audience) Ever an optimist, I wait for the orders to roll in!. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1655 Re: tadream-digest V15 #858 Mark Filipak Mon 3/10/1997 6 KB 1674 Re: Paul Nagle Andrew J. Rozsa Tue 3/11/1997 4 KB 1657 Re: tadream-digest V15 #858 Paul Nagle Mon 3/10/1997 3 KB 1673 Re: Paul Nagle Andrew J. Rozsa Tue 3/11/1997 3 KB 1672 Re: Paul Nagle (and Ashok Prema) Andrew J. Rozsa Tue 3/11/1997 7 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 2:54 pm Subject: Raven/388/Chi Really-From: Michael A Jean OK. I'll stick my neck out and say RAVEN is not bad...The show itself was pretty far out, and the some of the Vocals are less than inspired, but ALL the music is by Chris Franke. (Some excerpts from Klemania may be included also...). The music is all over the place, including what almost sounds like Hawaiian Slack key guitar, but I surely wouldn't oput in the orchestral category. People averse to vocals should approach with caution, but they appear on less than a quarter of the tracks.... Network 388 is very good...(esp. Dave Brewer's piece)...everyone should try it! I THINK Chi might be pronounced like Chi in chive or 'shy'. Who knows...Good luck finding it! If you do, pick one up for me!! Mike J Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1692 Re: Raven/388/Chi PNaunton@a... Tue 3/11/1997 2 KB 1723 Re: Raven/388/Chi gary.cresswell1@v... Tue 3/11/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 10:30 pm Subject: Re: TD POCKET DISCOGRAPHY 5.0 Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' Steven, Did you miss Baumann's Phase-By-Phase compilation CD from his solo section? Maybe you don't include compilations? N.P. Tranquility Bass -The Infection of Time (Just got this on Saturday, Mr. Hughes). --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi S3I Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) E-mail : cordrey@m... cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1643 Re: TD POCKET DISCOGRAPHY 5.0 Vincent Goudreault Mon 3/10/1997 3 KB 1646 TD POCKET DISCOGRAPHY 5.0 Steven Feldman Mon 3/10/1997 11 KB 3719 Is Anybody There? Simon W. Hood Fri 5/9/1997 2 KB 1647 Re: TD POCKET DISCOGRAPHY 5.0 Vic Rek Mon 3/10/1997 4 KB 1696 Re: TD POCKET DISCOGRAPHY 5.0 Steven Feldman Tue 3/11/1997 4 KB 1799 Re: TD POCKET DISCOGRAPHY 5.0 PNaunton@a... Thu 3/13/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 4:11 pm Subject: Re: TD POCKET DISCOGRAPHY 5.0 Really-From: 'Vincent Goudreault' Steven, Thank you for posting your latest edition of the TD pocket discography. If I can make a suggestion: in the key section, replace the word 'quality' with 'performance': I notice that 'The Park is Mine' has a rating of 9, but the recording quality was not that great, so you must mean that the quality of the PERFORMANCE was great (which it is). The 'Oasis' video, is that a Miramar release? C.B. Vincent Goudreault online since early 93, TD fan since 77 first exposure: Stratosfear, fave albums: Rubycon/Ricochet From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 10:19 pm Subject: Re: 'Beyond The Horizon' Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > Really-From: Mark Filipak > > > in this day and age i think that this statement is extremely > > debateable....their music has been uneven at best...in fact, i think > > this uneveness can be traced to the beginings of froese's 'rock star' > > dementia.... > > > > tom w > > > Tom! What do you mean by 'dementia'? Do you have anything to back up a > charge that Edgar is demented? If you don't, you shouldn't use such a > word. -- Mark Mark, are you going to povide the list with a set of words which can freely use without giving offense? Maybe you could just calm down a little and let the list get along as it's managed to do for a few years now. Anyway, wouldn't Edgar be more upset with the term 'rock star' than 'dementia'? 8-) --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi S3I Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) E-mail : cordrey@m... cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 10:17 pm Subject: Re: Dream Roots Collection Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > Really-From: 'Ceb Blankenship, Jr.' > One more opinion on Dream Roots : > Last night I saw the 'Dream Roots Collection' at Borders Books and > Music here in Wash. DC. Since I probably have every TD cd (including > the SBM versions) is this box set worth buying? Yes, it is. > I know one CD has some unreleased tracks, are they any good? IMO, these are better than the Tangents tracks and, incidentally, better than the new material on Froese's BtS. > Did Edgar tangetize all the other cuts with updated sounds? Not all are updated with new sounds, as such. Disk 1 features the Pink Years material with extensive reworkings, overlaying. The other 3 CDs containig previously released stuff is a mixture of addiions and just cuts. Some of the cuts I think are pretty sever. I hate what he did with Song of the Whale, but what the heck. > Is the sound quality as good as Tangents? Pass, I'm not well-up on the sound quality front. Music quality is, of course, superb. 8-) > What does the booklet included contain? Better than Tangents booklet, IMO, because of the very interesting and extensive phots. Better than some computer generated guff, or abstract natural scenes (although of course the CDs themselves cover the abstract nature theme nicely). > Thanks and DREAM ON!!! Your welcome. --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi S3I Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) E-mail : cordrey@m... cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: TD POCKET DISCOGRAPHY 5.0 Really-From: Steven Feldman TANGERINE DREAM POCKET DISCOGRAPHY 5.0, by Steven Feldman (3/9/97): +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | KEY: the first number indicates quality level: 1 for worst, 10 for best | | --the 2nd number refers to the year; e.g., 70 indicates a 1970 release. | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ 4 70 ELECTRONIC MEDITATION (gatefold cover w/ balloon attached in Ohr ed.) 5 71 ALPHA CENTAURI (gatefold cover for Ohr Records ed; no US vinyl until '87) 4 72 ZEIT (2-Record Set) (pic-insert in Ohr Records ed; no US vinyl until '87) 5 73 ATEM (packaged w/ ALPHA CENTAURI in UK in '76; no US vinyl until 1987) 6 GREEN DESERT (remixed & 1st rel. as platter 6 of IN THE BEGINNING in '86) 7 74 PHAEDRA (gatefold cover) 6 74 AQUA (gatefold cover) [Edgar Froese 'solo' programmed by Chris Franke(!)] 10 75 RUBYCON (gatefold cover) 9 76 STRATOSFEAR (title-less gatefold cover with clear title sticker) 7 78 CYCLONE (gatefold cover; inside is a pic of Franke, Froese, and Jolliffe) 9 79 FORCE MAJEURE (clear vinyl with sticker on cover and vanity label) 9 80 TANGRAM (vanity label; pictures of tangrams on inner sleeve) 9 81 EXIT (diff. cover: poster of back cover of US release is inside UK vers.) 8 82 WHITE EAGLE (vanity label; never on vinyl in the US; 1st US CD in 1994) 6 83 HYPERBOREA (vanity label; never on vinyl in the US; 1st US CD rel in '94) 9 85 LE PARC 6 86 UNDERWATER SUNLIGHT 5 87 TYGER (lyrics on inner sleeve; CD adds 2 tracks; 1992 remix adds 1 more) 3 88 OPTICAL RACE (die-cut cover with reversable cardboard vanity sleeve) 6 89 LILY ON THE BEACH (the last US TD release with commercially issued vinyl) 8 90 MELROSE 6 92 ROCKOON 8 94 TURN OF THE TIDES ('96 UK CD on TDI has bonus track 'Story of the Brave') 7 95 TYRANNY OF BEAUTY (UK CDs on Amp, & then TDI, have bonus track 'Quasar') 5 96 GOBLINS' CLUB LIVE ALBUMS (no covers except for THREE PHASE & 9 mins. of LIVE MILES): 7 75 RICOCHET 7 77 ENCORE (2-Record Set; gatefold cover; first US CD release in 1994) 7 80 QUICHOTTE (Amiga Records, East Berlin only) [later re-issued as...] 7 PERGAMON (re-issue of QUICHOTTE; released world-wide in 1986) 6 82 LOGOS (never on vinyl in the US; first US CD release in 1994) 7 84 POLAND (2-Record Set) (vanity inner sleeves; also available as pic disks) 5 88 LIVE MILES (UK CD has slightly different cover) 6 93 220 VOLT LIVE (the video/LD THREE PHASE shares no tracks: diff. concerts) 6 THREE PHASE (video/LaserDisk; 1/2 the tracks are covers of studio cuts) ORIGINAL SOUNDTRACK RECORDINGS: 7 77 SORCERER (first US CD release in 1994) 7 80 THIEF (US vers. has 'Confrontation,' other versions have 'Beach Scene') 8 83 WAVELENGTH 5 RISKY BUSINESS (only half is by TD; 1st LP pressing is different & rare) ? 84 THE KEEP (only 200-to-300 pressed by Virgin/Ariola, Germany [?]) 6 FLASHPOINT (also available as a pic disk or with movie synopsis insert) 8 FIRESTARTER (LP on MCA in 1984; CD on Varese Sarabande in 1992) 9 THE PARK IS MINE (released for the first time in 1992) 8 85 HEARTBREAKERS (German-only release, until 1995; then on Silva) 3 86 LEGEND (released only the UK[?]; the Euro sndtrck is by Jerry Goldmsith) 7 87 CANYON DREAMS (video differs from CD version, which was released in 1991) 2 THREE O'CLOCK HIGH (only half is by TD) 6 NEAR DARK (US version has photo cover, UK & European have painted cover) 4 SHY PEOPLE (photo montage on US & german covers; boat photo on UK cover) 3 DEADLY CARE (released for the first time in 1992) 7 89 MIRACLE MILE (unavailable on LP in the USA except as a promo) 2 DESTINATION BERLIN (German-only release) 8 DEAD SOLID PERFECT (released for the first time in 1991) 4 CATCH ME IF YOU CAN (released for the first time in 1994) 5 90 L'AFFAIRE WALLRAFF (a/k/a THE MAN INSIDE) (French-only release) 6 92 RUMPELSTILTSKIN (US in long-box w/ poster; Japanese has narration 2nd) ? 93 OASIS (video recorded in 1993; video release in 1996; CD release in 1997) 7 94 ZONING (video sndtrck; 1st rel 1996; white tray, booklet)[a Froese solo?] COMPILATIONS: 6*80 TANGERINE DREAM '70-'80 (4-Record Set) (booklet; *1 non-LP side plus 1) - 85 DREAM SEQUENCE (3-Record Set) [Virgin Records] (double-gatefold; booklet) - 86 IN THE BEGINNING (6-Record Set) (booklet; first pressing of GREEN DESERT) - 87 THE COLLECTION (2-Record Set) [Castle Communications] (gatefold cover) - 89 THE BEST OF TANGERINE DREAM (2-Rec Set) [later re-packaged as...] (no gf) - 91 FROM DAWN 'TIL DUSK--TANGERINE DREAM--1973-88 (single-CD rehash of above) 6*92 THE PRIVATE MUSIC OF TANGERINE DREAM (*two previously-unreleased tracks) - DREAM MUSIC ([Silva Screen] soundtrack compilation: DSP, TPiM, Deadly C.) 7 94 TANGENTS (5-CD Set) (almost entirely remixed, w/ a book & 1 all-new CD) 8 95 THE DREAM MIXES ([Miramar] 6 remixes & 4 all-new tracks; yellow CD tray) 6* BOOK OF DREAMS ([Essential Records] 2 CDs; Virgin *remixes; 12-p booklet) 7* DREAM MUSIC 2 ([Silva Screen] sndtrck comp *w/4 TD tracks by other bands) - 96 ATMOSPHERICS [similar to the FROM DAWN 'TIL DUSK compilation] 8 [UK:] THE DREAM MIXES (UK vers. of 95 rel has diff cover and a 2nd disk) ? THE DREAM ROOTS COLLECTION (5-CD Set, with one all-new CD) - TANGERINE DREAM (all of PHAEDRA, half of RUBYCON, STRATOSFEAR title cut) - 97 THE BRICK ([Miramar] ROCKOON, 220 V, TURN, TYRANNY, and D MIXES in a box) PETER BAUMANN (1972-1977) solos: 9 76 ROMANCE '76 6 79 TRANS-HARMONIC NIGHTS (never released in the US) 2 82 REPEAT REPEAT (two-sided, glossy, 12' x 12' lyric sheet) 1 83 STRANGERS IN THE NIGHT CHRISTOPH(ER) FRANKE (1971-1989) solos: 7 91 PACIFIC COAST HIGHWAY ? McBAIN (limited release soundtrack from Chris' Sonic Images label) ? 92 UNIVERSAL SOLDIER (soundtrack composed by but not played by Franke) 5 93 THE LONDON CONCERT (live, w/ 3 covers [Vermillion Sands=Taking the Park]) ? NEW MUSIC FOR FILMS, VOL. 1 (sndtrck comp; mostly previously unreleased) ?* ENCHANTING NATURE (PCH remixed; *4 new tracks) [from The Nature Company] ? 94 RAVEN (TV soundtrack; limited edition CD in 1994; released widely in '96) 8 95 BABYLON 5 (sndtrck; '94 ltd ed has 3 less cuts & diff booklet&tray photo) 8 KLEMANIA (1993 ltd edition has different [rough] mix & different booklet) ? 96 NIGHT OF THE RUNNING MAN (cabl TV sndtrck; w/ Berlin Symphonic Film Orch) ? THE CELESTINE PROPHESY (based on the book) ? TENCHI MUYO IN LOVE--THE MOVIE (sndtrck to Japanimation movie; digipak) ? 97 BABYLON 5, VOLUME 2: MESSAGES FROM EARTH (TV soundtrack) ? PERRY RHODAN: PAX TERRA (inspired by a series of sci-fi novels) ? TRANSFORMATION OF MIND (narration by Deepak Chopra, music by Franke) EDGAR FROESE (1967-present; founder/leader of TD) solos: 6 74 AQUA (gatefold cover) 10 75 EPSILON IN MALAYSIAN PALE (gatefold cover) 9* ELECTRONIC DREAMS (comp from above 2 LPs; *M. Bay is recorded backwards!) 6 76 MACULA TRANSFER (gatefold cover; not on CD; never released in the US) 5 78 AGES (2-Record Set; gatefold cover; not on CD; never released in the US) 8 79 STUNTMAN (photo-montage cardboard inner sleeve) 7*79 SOLO 1974-1979 (compilation featuring superior *remixes of many cuts) 7 83 KAMIKAZE 1989 (soundtrack; never released in the US) 6 PINNACLES (vanity label; never released in the US) 6 94 ZONING [TD release which is a Froese solo: Edgar did it all by himself] 7 95 BEYOND THE STORM (2-CD Set; 1/2 is remixes of previously-released stuff) (PAUL) HASLINGER (1986-1990) solos: [See also LIGHTWAVE and COMA VIRUS (other bands featuring Haslinger), listings for which follow the Tributes to Tangerine Dream section.] 6 94 FUTURE PRIMITIVE ? 96 WORLD WITHOUT RULES JOHANNES SCHMOELLING (1980-1986) solos: 8 86 WUIVEND RIET [English: 'Wind-Blown Reeds'] 5 88 THE ZOO OF TRANQUILLITY (rel on defunct Polydor sub-label Theta; no US r) 7 90 WHITE OUT (German-only release) 8 95 SONGS NO WORDS (not released in the US) ? 96 ZAUBERGEIGER SETTEMBRINI (narr by Martin Burkhardt, music by Schmoelling) TRIBUTES TO TANGERINE DREAM (Tangerine Dream Tribute Albums) 5*95 DREAM MUSIC 2 ([Silva Screen] sndtrck comp; includes *tracks by others) ? 96 TANGERINE AMBIENCE--A TRIBUTE TO TANGERINE DREAM (Hypnotic [Cleopatra]) 4 THE KEEP by the Fantasy Merchants (German; tracks from 6 diff TD sndtrks) _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ LIGHTWAVE (only Lightwave releases with Haslinger are listed) 6 94 TYCHO BRAHE [pronounced 'TIE-co BRAY,' after an astronomer] 3 95 MUNDUS SUBTERRANEUS COMA VIRUS ? 96 HIDDEN Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 3719 Is Anybody There? Simon W. Hood Fri 5/9/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 5:18 pm Subject: Re: TD POCKET DISCOGRAPHY 5.0 Really-From: Vic Rek > TANGERINE DREAM POCKET DISCOGRAPHY 5.0, by Steven Feldman (3/9/97): > > +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | KEY: the first number indicates quality level: 1 for worst, 10 for best | > | --the 2nd number refers to the year; e.g., 70 indicates a 1970 release. | > +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > I really don't understand the quality level column. What is it trying to accomplish? I wouldn't know how to use it since it seems very subjective. Clear me up on this if you may. Anyway, thanks Steven for the discography. I know it's not totally comprehensive, but a good reference for fans to have. At first glance, here some some minor additions to the list: COMPILATIONS: Please insert: The Story of Tangerine Dream (Comp. 1969-1988) - Germany Jive 74321 11709 2, 2 CD, 1992 > > PETER BAUMANN (1972-1977) solos: Please insert: Phase by Phase (A Retrospective '76 - '81) - UK Virgin CDOVD 464, 1996 > > CHRISTOPH(ER) FRANKE (1971-1989) solos: > Additions: > ? McBAIN (limited release soundtrack from Chris' Sonic Images label) 1991 > ? NEW MUSIC FOR FILMS, VOL. 1 (sndtrck comp; mostly previously unreleased) 1993 > ?* ENCHANTING NATURE (PCH remixed; *4 new tracks) [from The Nature Company] 1994 (sould follow The Raven) > 8 KLEMANIA (1993 ltd edition has different [rough] mix & different booklet) 1993 (reissued 1995 - should follow New Music for Films) There are 2 mixes. > ? THE CELESTINE PROPHESY (based on the book) 1996 > ? TENCHI MUYO IN LOVE--THE MOVIE (sndtrck to Japanimation movie; digipak) 1996 > ? PERRY RHODAN: PAX TERRA (inspired by a series of sci-fi novels) 1996 > EDGAR FROESE (1967-present; founder/leader of TD) solos: > > 9* ELECTRONIC DREAMS (comp from above 2 LPs; *M. Bay is recorded backwards!) 1976 > 6 PINNACLES (vanity label; never released in the US) 1983, you mean Virgin Label? It was distributed by Caroline in the US also. > JOHANNES SCHMOELLING (1980-1986) solos: > > ? 96 ZAUBERGEIGER SETTEMBRINI (narr by Martin Burkhardt, music by Schmoelling) release year is 1994, not 1996 That's it. Vic From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 5:34 pm Subject: D:-_-_-_'Wavelength'_-_-_- Really-From: PNaunton@a... [E-Mail] 10-Mar-1997 Tangerine Dream 'Wavelength' Published - 1983 Purchased - 1984 Format - LP Label - Varese Sarabande Catalog - STV81207 Personnel - Froese, Franke, Schmoelling Well now, maybe I should be more careful about what I say here, especially after my trashing of 'Underwater Sunlight' last week. ;-) I don't think I've seen this movie, at least not all of it. Like with 'Flashpoint' I have recollections of seeing the last five minutes or so, and was similarly unimpressed. Maybe I'm not a movie lover, although there are a couple I could watch over and over again; like 'Tremors II' or 'Evil Dead II' both sequels, oddly enough. Oops, off on a tangent again. Back to the point. I like this music. There is much variety and spooky atmosphere, not to forget tuneful explorations. While I was listening to this, a man came in to do some work in the house. A pleasant guy who has been around here for years. As he was leaving he asked, 'Do you find this music relaxing?' And this, during one of the more relaxing sections on side one. Side two of the LP gets pretty intense at times. I said I like music at times, others at other times. Then he started to make comparisons with the 'Wavelength' music and some new age type recordings with ambient nature sounds in the background. We talked for a while about this and he left. Maybe to the uninitiated this does sound similar to ambient wallpaper music, but frankly I don't see it. Nothing could be further from it. Favorite tracks: 'Church Theme'>>'Sunset Drive' I like the way these fit together. They sound like one track to me. 'Mojave - End Title - Reprise' These tunes are, for the most part, on other recordings, but these are different enough to be creations in their own right. At least I think so. There is an unfinished, gutsier quality to these tracks. A kind of 'work in progress' quality, and ythis gives the music an alive feeling which I can really relate to. One of the things I can pick on about 'The Goblins' Club' is that the music is so polished that the human aspect of the music is diminished. Music is a means of communication and (stepping up on the soapbox) at times the manner or the quality of the communication become more important than the communicating itself. Perhaps this is a major problem with making music with machines; eventually the artist has to make a cognitive effort to pull back from the machines instead of relying on them more and more. Perhaps this is why I get bored with Techno in such a short amount of time. Perhaps this is why I like Tangerine Dream more than most of the other musicians who dabble in this type of music. Perhaps this is why I feel more drawn to the earlier TD music than to the more recent recordings. Don't get me wrong; I like 'Goblins' Club' but I know I'll be playing the earlier recordings more frequently than GC in a years time. If I'm still alive, that is. Sigh. That's enough non sequitur rambling for this week. Phil Naunton Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1652 Re: D:-_-_-_'Wavelength'_-_-_- Sean Montgomery Mon 3/10/1997 3 KB 1656 Re: D:-_-_-_'Wavelength'_-_-_- Mark Filipak Mon 3/10/1997 3 KB 1659 Re: D:-_-_-_'Wavelength'_-_-_- Sean Montgomery Mon 3/10/1997 2 KB 1668 Re: D:-_-_-_'Wavelength'_-_-_- Mark Filipak Tue 3/11/1997 3 KB 1670 Phases of TD Sean Montgomery Tue 3/11/1997 2 KB 1685 Re: D:-_-_-_'Wavelength'_-_-_- feldon@n... Tue 3/11/1997 2 KB 1693 Re: D:-_-_-_'Wavelength'_-_-_- PNaunton@a... Tue 3/11/1997 3 KB 1714 Re: D:-_-_-_'Wavelength'_-_-_- Michael Fox Tue 3/11/1997 4 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: Re: poland.mid Really-From: Jerry Kindall Just wanted to thank Philip Meyer for posting that Poland MIDI file. It sounds great on a Mac using Yamaha's MidPlug for Netscape -- stereo effects and everything. OK, so it doesn't sound just like the album, but hey, it's still an excerpt from what might be my favorite TD album. -- Jerry Kindall Manual Labor Technical Writing; Internet & WWW Consulting Author of the Web Motion Encyclopedia The comprehensive animation and video reference for Web designers Coming Summer '97 from Waite Group Press Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1667 Re: poland.mid Philip Meyer Tue 3/11/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 6:34 pm Subject: Re: stuff Really-From: Michael Fox At 02:00 AM 3/10/97 -0500, you wrote: >Really-From: PNaunton@a... > > >In a message dated 97-03-10 00:56:20 EST, you write: > ><< The people 'in the biz' that I have heard use his name, and who would > probably know him and, presumably, his wishes on how his name should be > pronounced, have all said 'Chee' as in 'Cheese' -- in fact, very short > on the consonants, sort of a clipped 'Ch' followed by a longish 'eee'. > -- Mark >> > >You may have something there. Years ago when there was a hit called 'Thunder >And Lightning' in Chicago, every DJ I heard pronounced it 'Shy', but what do >they know? I think, however, that you'll find she's female. > >Phil Naunton > > Well, I'll add my bit of confusion to this. Thunder/Lightning was 'Shy'. Chi is also the 22 letter of the Greek alphabet is pronounced 'Ki' with a long i--like 'eye'. The Chinese call it 'Chee' with a long e. Too bad there isn't another vowel so we could slice this up further! Mike> From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 6:38 pm Subject: RE: emusic faves Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' >Vangelis-Beaubourg You gotta be kidding. This sound like he threw all the pots and pans from kitchen down a flight of stairs and recorded it. This was the second Vangelis album I bought. It was also the last. I sold it back to the shop. Scott From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 6:38 pm Subject: Re: D:-_-_-_'Wavelength'_-_-_- Really-From: Sean Montgomery > Perhaps this is a major problem with making music with machines; > eventually the artist has to make a cognitive effort to pull back from the > machines instead of relying on them more and more...(snip)...Perhaps this > is why I feel more drawn to the earlier TD music than to the more recent > recordings. But is current TD any more reliant on machines than TD of yore? Wavelength is almost all 'machines' (except for the piano). The only difference is that the group's sound has always been dictated in large part by the sounds of the machinery available to them at the time. Digital sounds have led them down different roads than analogue sounds did. But also bear in mind that Edgar and his collaborators do not exist in an emotional or psychological vacuum. They're growing, changing beings. And hey, if we look at the chart of TD 'phases' posted here recently, they're about due for a return back to 'suites', which should make a lot of people here happy (including myself). Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR http://www.topix.com/~sean 'I used to be indecisive, but now I just don't know' From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 6:55 pm Subject: OLD EM Really-From: Michael Fox I recall an album from mid-sixties by a duo called 'Silver Apples'. I think it was on the KAPP label. I think they were from the East coast U.S. One guy was a drummer and the other 'played' a desk of occilators and filters all patched together. They had a name for this conglomeration that I can't recall. It was pretty basic and raw stuff but it predates WCarlos, et.al. by a few years. Moog was yet to be a reality (Dick Hyman had an early Moog release that I still have a copy of). Does 'Silver Apples' stir a brain cell with anyone? Mike Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1680 Re: OLD EM robert Tue 3/11/1997 3 KB 1686 Re: OLD EM Grant Middleton Tue 3/11/1997 3 KB 1695 Re: OLD EM MCINTYRE@p... Tue 3/11/1997 2 KB 1713 Re: OLD EM Michael Fox Tue 3/11/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: Re: tadream-digest V15 #856 Really-From: DFO@C... > Subject: re: kraftwerk and TD > Really-From: Thomas Fanger I don't remember if I've seen you here before...are you the same Thomas Fanger of Fanger & Siebert? If so, I loved your album and hope you come out with something new soon. And nice to have you on the list. (For anyone who's not familiar, Fanger & Siebert put out an album on FAX a couple years ago that's a brilliant ambient/IDM hybrid. Unfortunately, like most FAX limited editions, it's now made of unobtainium.) Oh yeah, regarding Kraftwerk....I'm not particularly big on them. I like a couple of tunes on Radioactivity...that's about all I can recall right now. duane ott dfo@c... returning to lurk mode... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 7:25 pm Subject: Re: tadream-digest V15 #858 Really-From: Mark Filipak ashok prema wrote: > > 'Andrew J. Rozsa' wrote: > > > > Isn't it a bitch that once you are done listening to ALL of TD's > > stuff, there is so little to choose from? Or, is it that TD has > > spoiled us for anyone else? There seems to have been a subtle, but > > recurrent theme with respect to this comment for years. On this > > list and elsewhere. > > > > Happy dreaming.... > > > > Andrew > > > > ------------------------------ > > Here I disagree vehemently!! The music is there alright! > > I am sure that fellow contributors/musicians David Hughes and Paul > Nagle will agree - there is in fact APATHY towards other musicians > from TD fans in general! > This is proven by the recent letters regarding the Network tape - > which purports to present music of a simialr genre to TD's - yet > has not had a great response from the list memers - either in > ordering it - or responding to its content. > It is a constant source of irritation to myself and fellow musicians > that our music does not get the exposure it deserves - by dint of > the fact that we are- as yet - and no doubt will remain - nobodies. > It rarely gets played by the radio stations who are content to > satisfy the mass market - and providing a platform for Rock, > Soul, Jazz, Classical etc etc - but NOT em/synth music. It is then > more galling for us when even fans of TD's music - from whence our > inspirations are generally derived - and with it, a certain amount > of similarity - also ignore our efforts - and then bleat on about > how poor TD's output is now - and why can't they go back to their > original style etc etc. Yet ignoring totally the fine output of > us 'yet to make it big' musicians. Both Messrs Nagle and Hughes > (aka Tranquility Bass) names have graced these columns - as being > musicians of quality - yet how many orders have they received I > wonder from other list members?? Indeed - how many have visited > their web-sites to discover what its all about?? > > Et Tu Brutus?? > > Ashok Prema > (composer of 'Of Times & Places' the reveiw of which reads: > > appeal to anyone looking for something a bit different, but doesn't > want to be drawn into anything too abstract or challenging. > Accessible, yet orignal enough to stand out from the crowd - this > music will impress a wide audience) > > Ever an optimist, I wait for the orders to roll in!. Easy does it Ash. I think you may have misunderstood Andrew. We all appreciate e-musicians like crazy. Andrew has a point that TD has put the bar pretty high up, but there's plenty of room for more. If you think you have to be as good as TD to compete, then you're going to be unhappy. I buy Shreeve. I have 'The Infection of Time' by Tranquility Bass (Hey folks, in stock at ProgTron). I'd love to buy anything by Paul Nagle or by you. All I have to know is the name of the album and where a good place to find it is. I can understand that the musicians on this list don't want to be obnoxious, but there's a big difference between SPAM and just telling folks you're there, your music's there, what your stuff is, and where to get it. If you wrote your own review and then posted it, that would be SPAM, but telling people you have 'such and such' album and anyone who wants the hear it can go to http://such_and_such to hear it or go to Such_And_Such Incorporated to buy it is okay with me and is _NOT_ SPAM by my book. I would even go so far as to loan an album out to various college and community radio jocks in my area (South Bay, SF Bay Area) so everybody could hear it. What do you say now? And what do the rest of the listees say? My $0.02 -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1674 Re: Paul Nagle Andrew J. Rozsa Tue 3/11/1997 4 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 7:56 pm Subject: Re: D:-_-_-_'Wavelength'_-_-_- Really-From: Mark Filipak Sean Montgomery wrote: > > > Perhaps this is a major problem with making music with > > machines; eventually the artist has to make a cognitive effort to > > pull back from the machines instead of relying on them more and > > more...(snip)...Perhaps this is why I feel more drawn to the earlier > > TD music than to the more recent recordings. > > But is current TD any more reliant on machines than TD of yore? > Wavelength is almost all 'machines' (except for the piano). The > only difference is that the group's sound has always been dictated in > large part by the sounds of the machinery available to them at the > time. Digital sounds have led them down different roads than analogue > sounds did. But also bear in mind that Edgar and his collaborators do > not exist in an emotional or psychological vacuum. They're growing, > changing beings. And hey, if we look at the chart of TD 'phases' > posted here recently, they're about due for a return back to 'suites', > which should make a lot of people here happy (including myself). > > Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR > http://www.topix.com/~sean > > 'I used to be indecisive, > but now I just don't know' Technology driven in parts, I agree, but obviously also driven by the creative input of the 'other' members of the band (PB, CF, JS, PH especially). So what _did_ you think of my 'phases' chart. Any validity to those groupings to you? -- Mark (I really, really want to know) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 1:39 am Subject: Re: tadream-digest V15 #858 Really-From: Paul Nagle On Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:33:10 GMT, you wrote: >Really-From: ashok prema >Bass) names have graced these columns - as being musicians of quality - yet >how many orders have they received I wonder from other list members?? >Indeed - how many have visited their web-sites to discover what its all about?? Actually they're starting to roll in, amazingly enough. It just shows what kind words can do. Thanks Andrew & all. If I could just get my 'own' magazine (Sound On Sound) to do a review or something then things would really improve. But we both know the reason behind this....8-( I'm sending off 5 CDs today for orders and mainly because people have listened to the sample tracks. I'm so encouraged I'm gonna put some more tracks on that page! Not that I'm close to giving up my job of course but a few generous comments will sustain me for quite some time.... Oh, and I always try to push 'The Master' where I can. That's Mark Shreeve, of course! Don't give up Ash! Sorry to all for taking TD bandwidth. I'll go away now. Paul (no longer bitter and twisted) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ ------------------ Paul Nagle - paul@s... www.softroom.demon.co.uk --------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ ------------------ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1673 Re: Paul Nagle Andrew J. Rozsa Tue 3/11/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: D: _Tyranny of Beauty_ Really-From: Marshall Wood _Tyranny of Beauty_ (1995) Rating: 3 AS The opener, 'Catwalk,' is probably the best piece on the album. Nice use of sequencers, and some unexpected flamenco-style acoustic guitar. I like the fluttery keyboard sound that starts around 5:23. And the main keyboard theme recalls the sound of _Canyon Dreams_ for me, which is a good thing. The percussion sounds very synthesized, which is NOT a good thing. But there is no sign of the dreaded harpsichord sample, which IS a good thing. 'Birdwatcher's Dream' starts off like many other TD songs of the time, but perks up nicely halfway through. There is some interesting per- cussion from about 3:00 to 3:40, then a nice Oldifeld-ish bass line enters, with some bright guitar work on top of that. Then it sorta slides back into mediocrity. I like the spacey beginning to the next track, 'Little Blond in the Park of Attractions.' Then the sax and familiar samples come in and my interest wanes. There is some nice electric guitar playing from the guitarist du jour in there somewhere, but I'm not sure it's worth hanging around for. 'Living in a Fountain Pen' - like LBitPoA without the nice opening. 'Stratosfear 1995' - I just think of each exercise in Tangentizing as a whole new track. I have no problems with it. 'Stratosfear' is a classic, and while this version will not supplant the original in any way, shape, or form, it is pretty good - even the sax bits! Love the opening guitar solo of 'Bride in Cold Tears,' and the bouncy sequence that starts 1:00 into the track. Then in comes the percussion around 1:30. This track is like an amalgam of sonic ideas, some work, some don't. I like the whale sounds and sampled voices, and there are some sounds in there that TD doesn't use elsewhere, which is always a welcome thing. Edgar's guitar playing during the first 90 seconds of 'Haze of Fame' is awesome - beautiful and cosmic, like we're taking our cautious first steps on the surface of some alien world. And then the more mundane sounds appear, and we're back in sunny California, driving to the John Tesh concert in our Volvo. We're back on Mars near the end, but the spirit just isn't the same anymore by that point. The title track features some heavy electric guitar riffing and the usual synth sounds. The English horn is a nice touch, but it just feels like a momentary novelty, not a developed idea. There is a nice sitar-ish synth passage just before the guitar solo. 'Largo': zzzz.... I would recommend this CD to someone who has already heard _220 Volt Live_ and wants to hear more TD of the same era. 3 AS. MWood From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 8:04 pm Subject: Re: D:-_-_-_'Wavelength'_-_-_- Really-From: Sean Montgomery > So what _did_ you think of my 'phases' chart. Any validity to those > groupings to you? I actually liked it, although like any generalization, I don't think you can apply it inflexibly. Is Livemiles really a 'Concept?' How about Turn of the Tides, or Tyranny of Beauty then? I also think it's too early to say that Goblin's Club is another experiment. Overall though, a well thought-out set of groupings. Have you noticed too that the changes in styles often correspond to changes in record labels as well? Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR http://www.topix.com/~sean From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 8:53 pm Subject: D: Wavelength Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' On the whole, I like this a lot. I give it 4 AS, but I have a question: Is there a track on this that is a remix of a track from Kamikaze 1989? I think Breakout on WL is the same as Vitamin C on K89. I may have the titles wrong, though. For some reason I can never remember TD titles. Scott From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Mar 9, 1997 11:00 pm Subject: Re: Three Phase Video Really-From: 'Simon W. Hood' In message <199703091203.GAA11365@c...>, tadream mailing list writes >Really-From: G.K.Naughton@i... > > >Hello, > >On the subject of TD videos, what video footage of the band is >available? In the 1978 tour programme it says that the '75 >Coventry Cathedral concert was filmed and shown on BBC in '76. For >years when scanning the TV listings my first reflex action has been >to look for this concert to be repeated, but no such luck. This is >particularly irritating as it must be the only thing in the BBC's >archive that hasn't been repeated at least ten times. We get >Freddie Starr's Christmas Special repeated in July, but two >showings of TD in 21 years is obviously too much to ask. > >Also, I believe that the 1984 Athens concert was broadcast on Greek >TV and there appear to be TV cameras on stage during the Warsaw >concert. And then there's that professional quality footage from >the 1988 concerts in _Three Phase_. All this suggests that there's >a lot of TD concert footage around. > >How about a round-up of this material as part of the next monthly >FAQ, Goozer? > >Glynn > I've been lurking on this list for two or three weeks now, and I thought a reply to G K Naughton would be a good opportunity to chip in. Mr Naughton (I assume it's Mr - are there any female TD fans? :) ), don't get too irritated at the lack of a repeat of the BBC's film of TD's 1975 Coventry Cathedral concert. For years I desperately wanted this too. Until eventually I acquired a b--tl-g video tape of the programme. Musically it's a confidence trick. For whatever reason, the BBC took some of the concert footage from the Coventry gig and re-dubbed it with music from the album version of 'Ricochet'. It's laughable when you see it - 'Ricochet Part One' complete with drums and electric guitar can be heard, and all three band members are sitting in front of keyboards! The first time I saw this tape I thought to myself 'Aha - they've caught themselves out now. How are they going to justify the intro to Ricochet Part Two when there seem to be no pianos around?'. But they simply got around that by fading in 'Ricochet Part Two' at the point the piano intro is ending and the sequence lines start! Still, it is nice to see 'the guys' in action, even if the music you're hearing isn't what they were actually playing. Of course, the question has to be: Why? -- Simon W. Hood From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 7:06 am Subject: Re: Paul Nagle Really-From: gary.cresswell1@v... tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: TheSmitter@a... > > Slightly off topic, but Paul Nagle's music was recommended on this list > several days ago. Where can you purchase his cds? I've tried the online > catalogs of Eurock, Progtron and CDNow. None of them list his music. I saw > them listed in an old C&D CDS catalog, but they take next to forever to fill > an order. Can anyone help? > > Thanks, > LarryHi Paul Nagle albums Firedance / Skydancer & Wavemaker are available at: Compact Disc Services 40/42 Brantwood Avenue Dundee Scotland DD3 6EW tel 01382 776595 international 44 1382 776595 Fax 01382 736702 ' 44 1382 736702 They are not the Web Hope this is of some use Gaza From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 10:22 pm Subject: Re: Poland Midi file - poland.mid Really-From: 'Francisco Salgado C.' +tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: Philip Meyer > > Well, here it is... I like it ! Weird sounds but still there is the spirit. interesrting version... thanks. The very fost time I listen to a TD midi file... Francisco From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 6:59 am Subject: Re: Poland Midi file - poland.mid Really-From: Philip Meyer Hi tadream@c... (tadream mailing list), >Sorry Phil. My system locks up when I try to play POLAND.MID. It plays >other midi files just fine, but this one seems to have a problem. I >tried several times with different midi players. Better luck next time. > Other people don't seem to be have a problem. What email package are you using? -----------Philip Meyer-------------- phil@h... amarok@c... ------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 1:08 am Subject: TD Does the Classics Really-From: Sean Montgomery In the office today, we got sick of listening to the 'alternative' radio station, so we flipped over to the 'classic rock' channel. Led Zeppelin's Kashmir is playing...and I got to thinking, wouldn't this make a swell candidate for a TD cover? After all - to date - the songs that TD had chose to cover in concert are all 'classic rock' (House of the Rising Sun, Purple Haze and Eleanor Rigby). What song would YOU like to hear them do? (points awarded for humour) Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR http://www.topix.com/~sean From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 1:07 am Subject: Babylon 5 oddity Really-From: Ken Alexander I was out hunting for the second B5 soundtrack when I came upon an interesting version of the first one. It has an autographed front, yet it was in a store, and on the back it lists 12 tracks instead of 9! I thought that all autographed ones had 9 tracks and all non-autographed ones had 12 tracks. This one claims to have 12 tracks and yet it plainly has the distinctive Franke signature on the front also. So what's the deal? Elana? Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1722 Re: Babylon 5 oddity Paul Edwards Tue 3/11/1997 2 KB 1724 Re: Babylon 5 oddity gary.cresswell1@v... Tue 3/11/1997 3 KB 1725 Re: Babylon 5 oddity gary.cresswell1@v... Tue 3/11/1997 3 KB 1729 Re: Babylon 5 oddity Ken Alexander Wed 3/12/1997 2 KB 1733 Re: Babylon 5 oddity feldon@n... Wed 3/12/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 6:56 am Subject: Re: poland.mid Really-From: Philip Meyer Hi tadream@c... (tadream mailing list), >Just wanted to thank Philip Meyer for posting that Poland MIDI file. It >sounds great on a Mac using Yamaha's MidPlug for Netscape -- stereo >effects and everything. > That's alright, I'd post more if I had them! I've tried looking around other midi sites on the web, but that is the only one I've found so far. Sounds really good on my AWE64. I have some other excellent midi's from other artists. Echoes, several Mike Oldfield, JMJ, etc. These can be found at many places easily on the web. >OK, so it doesn't sound just like the album, but hey, it's still an >excerpt from what might be my favorite TD album. > One of my favourites too. Actually, when I played the midi, I thought, ah yes, I remember this bit. But later when I played my CD, I couldn't identify the section that it comes from. The drumming sounds similar to the first few minutes of the CD, but not the rest of it. Perhaps my CD of Poland is not complete :( It is marked: 'Extracts From Poland - The Warsaw Concert'. The artwork is black and white. The CD is marked Jive, CHIP22. -----------Philip Meyer-------------- phil@h... amarok@c... ------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 1:38 am Subject: Re: D:-_-_-_'Wavelength'_-_-_- Really-From: Mark Filipak tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: Sean Montgomery > > > So what _did_ you think of my 'phases' chart. Any validity to those > > groupings to you? > > I actually liked it, although like any generalization, I don't think > you can apply it inflexibly. Is Livemiles really a 'Concept?' How > about Turn of the Tides, or Tyranny of Beauty then? I also think it's > too early to say that Goblin's Club is another experiment. Overall > though, a well thought-out set of groupings. Have you noticed too that > the changes in styles often correspond to changes in record labels as > well? But of course, mon ami. So goes the standard line. I think it's true of the time Edgar came to Wonderwood, but not any other time. *I* think the other correlation is gear. Gear and personnel and I'll prove it when I find out the gear list for certain key time periods. I think the 'experiments' are when the gear changed drastically -- or the lineup changed drastically. Got somemore research to do. Bye and thanks for your review. -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1670 Phases of TD Sean Montgomery Tue 3/11/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 2:08 am Subject: Re: d:wavelength Really-From: Rich Maggio << 9) church theme -- mood filler, then about 2:00 it starts to get interesting >> This piece is expanded on disk 5 of Tangents. I forget the title of the track on Tangents, but it is the 2nd to last track and is about 12 minutes long. That piece is my favorite on disk 5. The version on Wavelength is good, but the expanded version is fantastic (IMHO). They develop the piece much more. The first time I listened to it, it sent chills down my spine. I think it is interesting that there are exerpts from Pergamon on this disk. Was this an intentional way of getting around the agreement that TD had with the East German music 'industry'. As I recall, this agreement forbade them (TD) from releasing this concert outside of the GDR for 10 years or so. Has anyone else thought of this? Rich Maggio Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1730 Re: d:wavelength Simon W. Hood Wed 3/12/1997 3 KB 1732 Concert Recordings Sean Montgomery Wed 3/12/1997 2 KB 1777 Re: Concert Recordings dbrewer@a... Wed 3/12/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 2:10 am Subject: Phases of TD Really-From: Sean Montgomery > *I* think the other correlation is gear. Of course...but something else to consider: TD's signing on to Virgin allowed them to BUY new gear. Perhaps this was true of other moves as well (a part of their contract, even)? Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR http://www.topix.com/~sean 'I used to be indecisive, but now I just don't know' From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 2:53 am Subject: Phases Chart Really-From: Vic Rek > So what _did_ you think of my 'phases' chart. Any validity to those > groupings to you? I think it is a pretty good summation. It printed it out Mark. Vic From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 8:51 pm Subject: Re: Paul Nagle (and Ashok Prema) Really-From: 'Andrew J. Rozsa' At 04:33 PM 3/10/97 GMT, you wrote: >Really-From: ashok prema >>From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) >>Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 22:39:19 >>Subject: Re: Paul Nagle >> >>Really-From: 'Andrew J. Rozsa' >> >>Isn't it a bitch that once you are done listening to ALL of TD's stuff, there >>is so little to choose from? Or, is it that TD has spoiled us for anyone else? >>There seems to have been a subtle, but recurrent theme with respect to this >>comment for years. On this list and elsewhere. >>------------------------------ >Here I disagree vehemently!! The music is there alright! >I am sure that fellow contributors/musicians David Hughes and Paul Nagle >will agree - there is in fact APATHY towards other musicians from TD fans >in general! >This is proven by the recent letters regarding the Network tape - which >purports to present music of a simialr genre to TD's - yet has not had a >great response from the list memers - either in ordering it - or responding >to its content. I 'showed' an interest. I am yet to hear from anybody about it. Maybe it's just my anxiety showing, but unless I get some fairly timely response to a query I move on. Life's too short. >It is a constant source of irritation to myself and fellow musicians that >our music does not get the exposure it deserves - by dint of the fact that >we are- as yet - and no doubt will remain - nobodies. Ashok, Let me make sure I hear you right. You suggest that the many people who, over the last 2 years, have asked for music LIKE Tangerine Dream's are either too few to matter, are not seriously asking for what they are asking, don't have the funds to buy what they are asking for, or for some other yet (to me) unfathomable reason don't follow through with their query. You may be right. I can only speak for myself, but there OUGHT to be others who feel the same. Of course, I could be a totally unique brand of listener. I can't tell you the name of the dozens of CDs I bought on the sheer possibility that they MAY be TD-like. I follow Archie Patterson's descriptions, Ranjit's, other people's on this list, and CDNow's 'music like this.' So I end up with Roxy, The Pet Shop Boys, RMI, Andy Pickford, Air Sculpture, and lordonlyknows who, who sound nothing like TD of old or new. I don't have a complete list because I have given them ALL away to my 19-year niece who will listen to anything, just as long as she doesn't have to do the household chores. Granted I am not a very careful reader, how come I have not been advised of your music? We may be chastised for bringing this discussion to this list (in which case I am willing to take it to private mail), but I think that it's relevant to discuss who are the TD fans, what do they want, and what are they willing to experiment with. So if I am not the average TD fan (have all of TD's commercial stuff and some boots), what is the AVERAGE TD fan and what would it take to please him/her? (market research). Since this is a list and some would complain if you were to advertise (NOT me, I want to learn about you!) what other venue would be appropriate? It's all marketing, isn't it? The guy who sold several million 'pet rocks' in the USA a few years ago, must have been a marketing genius. It's not easy to break into a field that is saturated with so many group names that nobody knows them all. Have you seen Eurock's latest catalog? I don't know 80% of the names in it so I am not likely to buy anything from it unless somebody on this list recommends it. And then I get into real hot water, because I end up with John bloody Tesh, Yawni, or some other woosie soft-pedal production-slick (sic!) like them. Or, Pete 'gag me with another space odyssey' Namlook. On the mere chance that Paul Nagle's stuff was TD-like, I bought all his four CDs. The best money I spend in a long time. How come YOU or Mr. Hughes haven't sold ME anything? Although, I did request 'Tranquility Bass' from Eurock, who doesn't have it in stock. You know, after having spent an hour on the Net for a place to buy it, what is the chance that I will come back to it? Zero. Call it information overload. >It rarely gets >played by the radio stations who are content to satisfy the mass market - >and providing a platform for Rock, Soul, Jazz, Classical etc etc - but >NOT em/synth music. It is then more galling for us when even fans of TD's >music - from whence our inspirations are generally derived - and with it, a >certain amount of similarity - also ignore our efforts - and then bleat on >about how poor TD's output is now - and why can't they go back to their Given that I haven't liked anything since 'Melrose' I am complaining that TD's music has not gone the way my tastes have. >Et Tu Brutus?? > >Ashok Prema >(composer of 'Of Times & Places' the reveiw of which reads: OK, Ashok, sell me a CD. I think that electronic music rock may be a bit too esoteric for the average American who spends most on CDs (a teenager, probably). Yet your market is here (in the USA) just as much as it is in Europe. But, it is almost impossible to buy anything British or German or French around here. Maybe you need a publicity agent. Or better distributor. Carolina who? BTW, just to show you how far an American goes with (European) electronic music, I bought my first TD album on 8-track cartridge. Then, again, I think that Walter Carlos is way better than Wendy Carlos. But what do I know? Andrew From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 9:22 pm Subject: Re: Paul Nagle Really-From: 'Andrew J. Rozsa' At 06:39 PM 3/10/97 GMT, you wrote: >Really-From: Paul Nagle > > >On Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:33:10 GMT, you wrote: > >>Really-From: ashok prema > >>Bass) names have graced these columns - as being musicians of quality - yet >>how many orders have they received I wonder from other list members?? [........] >I'm sending off 5 CDs today for orders and mainly because people have >listened to the sample tracks. I'm so encouraged I'm gonna put some >more tracks on that page! attaboy! :-) >Not that I'm close to giving up my job of course but a few generous >comments will sustain me for quite some time.... > >Oh, and I always try to push 'The Master' where I can. That's Mark >Shreeve, of course! >Don't give up Ash! Sorry to all for taking TD bandwidth. I'll go away >now. > >Paul (no longer bitter and twisted) Hey, Paul. Don't misunderstand my motivation. My 'kind words' are purely selfish! If we can get you to quit your day-job, we get you do compose and publish some more music for us! Cheers, Andrew From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Mar 10, 1997 9:13 pm Subject: Re: Paul Nagle Really-From: 'Andrew J. Rozsa' At 11:25 AM 3/10/97 -0800, you wrote: >Really-From: Mark Filipak > >ashok prema wrote: >> >> 'Andrew J. Rozsa' wrote: >> > >> > Isn't it a bitch that once you are done listening to ALL of TD's >> > stuff, there is so little to choose from? Or, is it that TD has [snip] >> Here I disagree vehemently!! The music is there alright! >> >> I am sure that fellow contributors/musicians David Hughes and Paul >> Nagle will agree - there is in fact APATHY towards other musicians >> from TD fans in general! [snip] >Easy does it Ash. I think you may have misunderstood Andrew. We all >appreciate e-musicians like crazy. Andrew has a point that TD has put >the bar pretty high up, but there's plenty of room for more. If you >think you have to be as good as TD to compete, then you're going to be >unhappy. I buy Shreeve. I have 'The Infection of Time' by Tranquility >Bass (Hey folks, in stock at ProgTron). I'd love to buy anything by >Paul Nagle or by you. All I have to know is the name of the album and >where a good place to find it is. I can understand that the musicians >on this list don't want to be obnoxious, but there's a big difference >between SPAM and just telling folks you're there, your music's there, >what your stuff is, and where to get it. If you wrote your own review >and then posted it, that would be SPAM, but telling people you have >'such and such' album and anyone who wants the hear it can go to >http://such_and_such to hear it or go to Such_And_Such Incorporated to >buy it is okay with me and is _NOT_ SPAM by my book. I would even go so >far as to loan an album out to various college and community radio jocks >in my area (South Bay, SF Bay Area) so everybody could hear it. What do >you say now? And what do the rest of the listees say? My $0.02 -- Mark > You got it, Mark. And you put it A LOT more lucidly than I have. Unfortunately my overly long and rambling post is gone and I can't suck it back. I do wish that others, who over the years have asked for TD-like music, would PIPE UP, for goodnessakes! Yo, bothers (fairly safe not-PC, since sisters don't listen to this stuff -- ducking and running just in case I am wrong), let these fine musicians know that we ARE interested in their stuff? What? Andrew From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 4:32 am Subject: Re: TD Does the Classics Really-From: Claude Roy What about I Was Made For Loving You (Kiss) good one, no? At 20:08 97-03-10 -0500, you wrote: >Really-From: Sean Montgomery > > > >In the office today, we got sick of listening to the 'alternative' radio >station, so we flipped over to the 'classic rock' channel. Led >Zeppelin's Kashmir is playing...and I got to thinking, wouldn't this make >a swell candidate for a TD cover? After all - to date - the songs >that TD had chose to cover in concert are all 'classic rock' (House of the >Rising Sun, Purple Haze and Eleanor Rigby). > >What song would YOU like to hear them do? (points awarded for humour) > > >Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR > http://www.topix.com/~sean > > ___________________________________________________________ Claude Roy, Longueuil P.Q. Canada e-mail: http://pages.infinit.net/ozzz/gci/gcimain.htm (site génie civil) http://pages.infinit.net/ozzz/cin/cinbienv.htm (site cinema) ____________________________________________________________ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1677 Re: TD Does the Classics Mark Filipak Tue 3/11/1997 2 KB 1679 Re: TD Does the Classics Sean Montgomery Tue 3/11/1997 2 KB 1678 Re: TD Does the Classics Sean Montgomery Tue 3/11/1997 2 KB 1682 Re: TD Does the Classics Mark Filipak Tue 3/11/1997 3 KB 1689 Re: TD Does the Classics Plumer, Scott Tue 3/11/1997 2 KB 1708 Re: TD Does the Classics Sean Montgomery Tue 3/11/1997 3 KB 1702 Re: TD Does the Classics PENFOLD Tue 3/11/1997 3 KB 1703 Re: TD Does the Classics PENFOLD Tue 3/11/1997 2 KB 1710 Re: TD Does the Classics Sean Montgomery Tue 3/11/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 4:28 am Subject: Re: Phases of TD Really-From: Mark Filipak tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: Sean Montgomery > > > *I* think the other correlation is gear. > > Of course...but something else to consider: TD's signing on to Virgin > allowed them to BUY new gear. Perhaps this was true of other moves as > well (a part of their contract, even)? > > Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR > http://www.topix.com/~sean > > 'I used to be indecisive, > but now I just don't know' Excellent point. Anybody got a gear list (gearography?)? From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 4:22 am Subject: Re: TD Does the Classics Really-From: Mark Filipak Sean Montgomery wrote: > > What song would YOU like to hear them do? (points awarded for humour) > Terrific thread seed Sean (yeragenius). How bout 'Flakes' from Zappa's 'Sheik Yerbouti' in front of a Hollywood studio mockup? -- might put a smile on a certain face. -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1679 Re: TD Does the Classics Sean Montgomery Tue 3/11/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 4:41 am Subject: Re: TD Does the Classics Really-From: Sean Montgomery > What about I Was Made For Loving You (Kiss) > good one, no? Only if they did it in full Kiss makeup, with Edgar breathing fire and drooling blood. Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR http://www.topix.com/~sean 'I used to be indecisive, but now I just don't know' From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 5:03 am Subject: Re: TD Does the Classics Really-From: Sean Montgomery > Terrific thread seed Sean (yeragenius). How bout 'Flakes' from Zappa's > 'Sheik Yerbouti' in front of a Hollywood studio mockup? -- might put a > smile on a certain face. -- Mark Hmmm.....actually, how about 'Valley Girl', with Jerome taking the Moon Unit role? Or does that count as a classic? Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR http://www.topix.com/~sean 'I used to be indecisive, but now I just don't know' From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 7:11 am Subject: Re: OLD EM Really-From: robert tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: Michael Fox > > I recall an album from mid-sixties by a duo called 'Silver Apples'. I think > it was on the KAPP label. I think they were from the East coast U.S. One guy > was a drummer and the other 'played' a desk of occilators and filters all > patched together. They had a name for this conglomeration that I can't > recall. It was pretty basic and raw stuff but it predates WCarlos, et.al. by > a few years. Moog was yet to be a reality (Dick Hyman had an early Moog > release that I still have a copy of). Does 'Silver Apples' stir a brain cell > with anyone? > Mike Seems to me I recall hearing of group that took their name from Morton Subotnick's Silver Apples of the Moon. There are 2 cds availible by someone called Silver Apples at RPM Records (http://rpmrecords.com/) in Texas but I don't know if they are the same group you are refering to. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 4:48 am Subject: Re: Network 388 Really-From: jeffrey@i... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 18:32:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: D: Network 388 >Really-From: PENFOLD >Although the styles of each of the pieces on this tape are different, one >can see in some of them the definite TD influence, on others it's more >subtle or esoteric. Im really glad to see some comments regarding Network 388. I think the tape is quite good (of course I may be a little biased - just a little). I have to agree that on most of the compositions you can hear influences of TD. Most people on the list are hardcore fans and anyone making e-music today is probably influenced by TD in a sublte way. Their enormous high quality output is quite hard to ignore. Even more intereting is the people making most of the non - commercial tecnho music today hold these guys and many of the other synth pioneers in very high esteem and it seems that when some of the of these pioneers (including TD) release new material they are influenced by the young techno scene they helped to create. >It's also kinda nice to expand one's impressions of the ML members by other >means than pixels on my CRT. When discussing to do the tape the main purpose in my mind was to get a change to hear some material that I would never get a chance to hear otherwise. Besieds accomplishing this goal, it definitely gave me an oppurtunity to expand my relations with other contributers which is great. >'Beyond The Horizon' should stick a blurb about _Network_388_ in the 'Fan >Projects' section, as there are a number of subscribers who also have 'Net >access (how do you think that Robert's yelling 'Edgar, play guitar!' got on >my tape of the SIR Theatre show?) I believe that BTH will now be compiling >email address' for the quarterly member directory database. That would be great - any BTH subsribers mind submitting the info or drop me a line where I can submit the info. bottom line? 4AS I like that rating!!!!! Jeff From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 7:37 am Subject: Re: TD Does the Classics Really-From: Mark Filipak Sean Montgomery asked: > > What song would YOU like to hear them do? (points awarded for humour) Seriously, how about yet another update on a song that's bound to date me: Telstar. Sequencers on overdrive carrying the main theme for the first 4 minutes with a motoric mellotron line behind them in a sort of techno-meets-Baumann time warp. Then Edgar picks up the line and rages through the chorus on guitar as the digital stuff takes over from the mellotron and the mellotron retires. Then after about 2 minutes of solo followed by 2 minutes of call and response between Edgar and the sequencers with the keyboards slowly picking up the reprise, he phlange fades as the mellotron comes back behind a flourish of filter sweeps to take center stage for a 5 minute space-chill ride. Unexpectedly, the anticipated 2nd reprise to the finish _does_ _not_ _happen_ and the song instead supplys a 1 minute acid jazz piano solo that abruptly ends on a sustained fade that leaves you gasping. Total time: 14 minutes -- and no drums. -- Mark (or does the end sound too much like something Paul might do?) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 3:27 pm Subject: Re: Baumann's Compilation CD: PHASE-BY-PHASE Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > Really-From: Steven Feldman > I do include compilations. I was not aware of the existence of > this Baumann CD. When and where did it come out? What's on it, etc. > Phase-by-Phase : A Retrospective '76-'81 Repeat Repeat Daytime Logic This Day Meridian Moorland Meadow of Infinity (Part One) Meadow of Infinity (Part Two) Romance Home Sweet Home M.A.N. Series Two Bicentennial Presentation Phase by Phase White Bench and Black Bench Biking up the Strand Dance at Dawn Released on Virgin Vault, CVOVD 464. Released in UK in 1996. Other countries not known. --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi S3I Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) E-mail : cordrey@m... cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 8:54 am Subject: Re: Three Phase Video Really-From: Kev Holmes tadream mailing list wrote: > > tadream mailing list wrote: > > > > Really-From: G.K.Naughton@i... > > > > Hello, > > > > On the subject of TD videos, what video footage of the band is > > available? In the 1978 tour programme it says that the '75 > > Coventry Cathedral concert was filmed and shown on BBC in '76. For > > years when scanning the TV listings my first reflex action has been > > to look for this concert to be repeated, but no such luck. This is > > particularly irritating as it must be the only thing in the BBC's > > archive that hasn't been repeated at least ten times. We get > > Freddie Starr's Christmas Special repeated in July, but two > > showings of TD in 21 years is obviously too much to ask. > > Oh no, I'll defend Auntie on this one. The Coventry concert certainly was repeated on BBC2, around '83-'84, I believe. Since the family didn't have a colour TV until '77, and I've seen the footage in colour, I have to conclude that I didn't see the original broadcast. Also, since I didn't see the repeat at university (graduated '82) and got a video in '84, as I don't have a tape of it, it must have been '83 or '84 (Still with me?) If I recall, they showed about 30 minutes of the Ricochet set, mixing some of side 2 into side 1? I'm sure someone will correct me... And since my graduation ceremony was in Coventry Cathedral, I'd know about this sort of thing, right? :-) Someone, somewhere, must have a copy... Or do we have to storm Broadcasting House to get them to repeat it again? Cheers, Kev (Trans: BBC aka 'Auntie Beeb') -- | Kev Holmes | email: kholmes@p... | | Senior Consultant | | | Pure Atria | Mobile: +44 (0)385 307337 | | Wyvols Court, | Office: +44 (0)990 561516 | | Swallowfield, | Fax: +44 (0)990 143096 | | Near Reading | URL: http://www.pureatria.com | | Berkshire, UK RG7 1PY | | From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 9:10 am Subject: Re: D:-_-_-_'Wavelength'_-_-_- Really-From: feldon@n... At 03:04 PM 3/10/97 -0500, you wrote: >Really-From: Sean Montgomery >> So what _did_ you think of my 'phases' chart. Any validity to those >> groupings to you? > >I actually liked it, although like any generalization, I don't think you >can apply it inflexibly. I also think it's too >early to say that Goblin's Club is another experiment. Let's put it this way: If Goblin's Club ISN'T an experiment, I'm going to be waiting several years before TD has a 'phase' change again... Morgan From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 10:02 am Subject: Re: OLD EM Really-From: 'Grant Middleton' > Really-From: Michael Fox > > I recall an album from mid-sixties by a duo called 'Silver Apples'. I think > it was on the KAPP label. I think they were from the East coast U.S. One guy > was a drummer and the other 'played' a desk of occilators and filters all > patched together. They had a name for this conglomeration that I can't > recall. It was pretty basic and raw stuff but it predates WCarlos, et.al. by > a few years. Moog was yet to be a reality (Dick Hyman had an early Moog > release that I still have a copy of). Does 'Silver Apples' stir a brain cell > with anyone? > Mike I've got a book about EM which describes their album. I'll look it out tonight. It also describes the 'machine' and I can't for the life of me remember off hand what it's called. Film at eleven.... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _.^~~~~~\ Grunt ! [, @ E-Mail : grantm@d... \______/ /\ /\ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 5:43 pm Subject: church theme = silver scale Really-From: ath@s... (Armin Theissen) ><< >9) church theme -- mood filler, then about 2:00 it starts to get >interesting >>> > >This piece is expanded on disk 5 of Tangents. I forget the title >of the track on Tangents, but it is the 2nd to last track and >is about 12 minutes long. That piece is my favorite on disk 5. >The version on Wavelength is good, but the expanded version is >fantastic (IMHO). They develop the piece much more. The first >time I listened to it, it sent chills down my spine. > > It is called 'Silver Scale' on Tangents and is the best on the whole Tangents set - to me. TD opened their second set on the 1980/81 tour ('Illusions'-tour) with Silver Scale - even longer and more expanded than on Tangents. It stops way too early there!!! Armin Armin Theissen ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Armagh Observatory email: ath@s... College Hill http://www.astro.uni-bonn.de/~theissen Armagh, BT61 9DG Phone: (+44) 1861 522928 Northern Ireland Fax: (+44) 1861 527174 From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 12:16 pm Subject: Re: Three Phase Video/Ricochet Really-From: 'Marcel Engels' > Oh no, I'll defend Auntie on this one. The Coventry concert > certainly was repeated on BBC2, around '83-'84, I believe. > Since the family didn't have a colour TV until '77, and I've > seen the footage in colour, I have to conclude that I didn't see > the original broadcast. Also, since I didn't see the repeat at > university (graduated '82) and got a video in '84, as I don't > have a tape of it, it must have been '83 or '84 (Still with > me?) > > If I recall, they showed about 30 minutes of the Ricochet set, > mixing some of side 2 into side 1? I'm sure someone will correct > me... > > And since my graduation ceremony was in Coventry Cathedral, I'd > know about this sort of thing, right? :-) > > Someone, somewhere, must have a copy... Or do we have to storm > Broadcasting House to get them to repeat it again? > > Cheers, > Kev As I am looking at a copy of the video, which I watched many times because it's great to see those moogs, I can tell you that's it's about 30 minutes long. The second track misses the piano-part. As mentioned earlier, the music is totally not in sync with the pictures, but who cares. By the looks of it, this copy was probably broadcasted in '76/'77. Quality is OK, but not comparable of course with Three Phase. Although I find the Coventry-video much more interesting then Three Phase. Marcel From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 1:18 pm Subject: RE: TD Does the Classics Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' >What song would YOU like to hear them do? (points awarded for humour) In a gadda da vida? Autobahn by Kraftwerk? (w/ Ed on vocals, of course) How about some traditional German music? Schnitzelbank, perhaps? (That's the Animaniacs version. I don't know what the real song's title is. It goes 'Ist das nicht ein blah blah blah? Ja das ist ein blah blah blah.') There we go! The Animaniacs meet TD! 'Edgar's gut, Edgar's butt, oh die schoene, oh die schoene schnitzelbank!' (Please excuse my German) Scott Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1708 Re: TD Does the Classics Sean Montgomery Tue 3/11/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: A Compilation That is 50% Another Company's Stuff Really-From: Steven Feldman >Subjet: Re: Baumann's Compilation CD: PHASE-BY-PHASE >From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) >Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 08:27:46 GB-EIRE >Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > >Phase-by-Phase : A Retrospective '76-'81 In their US incarnations, at least, the first two Baumann albums were on Virgin, whereas the second two were on CBS. If such was also the case in the UK, this would be an example of a compilation where a record company issued product that they owned only 50% of. And that would add ammunition to the Ubercollection thread. ;) >Bicentennial Presentation Ack! :( I don't recall this title. I have all four Baumann albums, and this doesn't ring a bell. And yet, I haven't played much of REPEAT REPEAT or STRANGERS IN THE NIGHT for quite some time. ;) -- Steven Feldman and Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1737 Re: A Compilation That is 50% Another Company's S Craig R. J. Cordrey Wed 3/12/1997 3 KB 1829 Re: A Compilation That is 50% Another Company's S Dave Lane Fri 3/14/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 2:48 pm Subject: Re: emusic faves Really-From: PNaunton@a... In a message dated 97-03-10 13:53:16 EST, you write: << >Vangelis-Beaubourg You gotta be kidding. This sound like he threw all the pots and pans from kitchen down a flight of stairs and recorded it. This was the second Vangelis album I bought. It was also the last. I sold it back to the shop. Scott >> Really, Scott? I think this rates top marks along with Pat Metheny's 'Zero Tolerance For Silence' and Zappa's 'Make A Jazz Noise Here'. 'One hand clapping can be quite loud when your face gets in the way.' - A Not So Famous Zen Saying. Phil Naunton From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 2:47 pm Subject: Re: Raven/388/Chi Really-From: PNaunton@a... In a message dated 97-03-10 10:07:20 EST, Mike J writes: << The show itself was pretty far out, and the some of the Vocals are less than inspired, but ALL the music is by Chris Franke. >> Are you sure? Yes, it says that, but there is that, 'Addtional Performances by ..........' What exactly does this mean? It really doesn't say <<_all_ music composed by Chris Franke >>, whereas this is often written in just those words on other albums. Phil Naunton From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 2:48 pm Subject: Re: D:-_-_-_'Wavelength'_-_-_- Really-From: PNaunton@a... In a message dated 97-03-10 14:03:08 EST, you write: << > is why I feel more drawn to the earlier TD music than to the more recent > recordings. But is current TD any more reliant on machines than TD of yore? Wavelength is almost all 'machines' (except for the piano). The only difference is that the group's sound has always been dictated in large part by the sounds of the machinery available to them at the time. Digital sounds have led them down different roads than analogue sounds did. But also bear in mind that Edgar and his collaborators do not exist in an emotional or psychological vacuum. They're growing, changing beings. And hey, if we look at the chart of TD 'phases' posted here recently, they're about due for a return back to 'suites', which should make a lot of people here happy (including myself). Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR http://www.topix.com/~sean >> There are machines and then there are MACHINES. There is probably some validity to the concern that as machines become more and more sophisticated that the operators become less and less necessary to run them. I was amused to read on this list some time ago that TD, during a live concert, left the machines playing on stage for a time, while they all went off stage for a short break. Probably more for the comedic effect than anything else. What's my point? Oh, nothing really. TD is good. They have always been good. They do, however, move in and out of a degree of mechanicalness as the artists pendulum between rote response and emotionalism. All my opinions, of course. Phil Naunton From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: All 3 Nightcrawlers LPs to Become CDs!?! Really-From: Steven Feldman >Subject: 10 Fave E-music Albums (only 3 TD-related) >From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) >Date: Sat, 8 Mar 97 10:48:00 +0200 >Really-From: Klaus_Beschorner@b... (Klaus Beschorner) > >>* Peter D. Gulch is/was the founder/leader of The Nightcrawlers, a band >>that put out some 30 cassettes, but only 3 albums and no CDs. > >A re-release of the three albums on CD is in the making at Manikin >records. You're kidding. What country is this label located in? It's too bad that Peter couldn't issue the CDs himself via his Synkronos label. Still, the third album, SHADOWS OF LIGHT, is one of the best e-music recordings I've ever had the pleasure to experience . . . and those thunder sounds on side two really cry out for better sound. This is as good as TD-inspired music this side of DEPARTURE FROM THE NORTHERN WASTELAND (Hoenig) or SIGMA (Waveshape) gets! Obligatory TD content: The first, eponymously titled Nightcrawlers LP is a lot like TD's '75-'77 material. The second album, SPACEWALK, is sorta like Brian Eno meets Jean-Michel Jarre, and yet it is nothing like ENTENDANT COUSTEAU. Go figure. -- Steven Feldman and From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 2:54 pm Subject: Re: OLD EM Really-From: MCINTYRE@p... >Really-From: robert > Seems to me I recall hearing of group that took their name from Morton >Subotnick's Silver Apples of the Moon. Sorry for the nitpicking, but my MA in English insists that I point out that the source for Silver Apples of the Moon is the poem 'Song Of Wandering Angus' by William Butler Yeats. Both Subotnick and the rock band are alluding to Yeats. The homemade synthesizer Silver Apples used was called the Simeon after its owner. TRC in Germany has released the two Silver Apples albums as a single CD. John McIntyre Physics - Astronomy Domine Dept Michigan State University mcintyre@p... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: Re: TD POCKET DISCOGRAPHY 5.0 Really-From: Steven Feldman >Re: TD POCKET DISCOGRAPHY 5.0 >Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 12:18:55 -0500 (EST) >From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) >Really-From: Vic Rek > >> +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ >> | KEY: the first number indicates quality level: 1 for worst, 10 for best >> | --the 2nd number refers to the year; e.g., 70 indicates a 1970 release. >> +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ >> >I really don't understand the quality level column. What is it trying to >accomplish? I wouldn't know how to use it since it seems very subjective. >Clear me up on this if you may. It is *totally* subjective on my part. Consider it a side-effect of someone as opinionated as myself making a discography. ;) Anyone who doesn't like my 'ratings' can remove 'em at will . . . or replace 'em with their own. >Anyway, thanks Steven for the discography. I know it's not totally >comprehensive, but a good reference for fans to have. I've only put albums on there. Singles, EPs, and the like have not been included. I give copies of my Pocket Discography to used record stores, you know. >Please insert: > >The Story of Tangerine Dream (Comp. 1969-1988) >- Germany Jive 74321 11709 2, 2 CD, 1992 Just what sort of stuff is this? Virgin material? Is this German- only? >> PETER BAUMANN (1972-1977) solos: > >Please insert: >Phase by Phase (A Retrospective '76 - '81) - UK Virgin CDOVD 464, 1996 Is this UK-only? >Additions: > >> EDGAR FROESE (1967-present; founder/leader of TD) solos: >> >> 9* ELECTRONIC DREAMS (comp from above 2 LPs; *M. Bay is recorded back > > 1976 I've got this record and my memory says 1975 (but then, the record is at my parent's house and I don't have immediate access to it). >> 6 PINNACLES (vanity label; never released in the US) > > 1983, you mean Virgin Label? It was distributed by Caroline > in the US also. A 'vanity label' is when there is a specially-designed-for-the specific-record image on the label rather than the label's standard appearance. I mean label literally, not the organization that prints the records. You mean, this CD came out in the USA??? -- Steven Feldman and From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 3:18 pm Subject: TRACKLIST: Berlin 1987 Really-From: m.schaffer@i... Alright, boys and girls, here it is, the biggie - Berlin 1987 track list & various other bits of info. Berlin Platz Der Republik (Republic Square) 1st August 1987 ----------------------------------------------------------- Main Set 1. Caspian Sea 2. Dolphin Smile 3. Civilized Illusions 4. Betrayal 5. Diamond Diary 6. Love On A Real Train 7. Canyon Voices 8. Zen Garden 9. Samba Motel/Scuba Scuba 10. Unreleased 11. Piano solo 12. Dolphin Dance (extended) 13. Velvet Autumn/Sunnyvale 14. Smile (instrumental) 15. Ride On The Ray 16. Going West 17. Yellowstone Park Encores 18. Tyger (instrumental) 19. Tiergarten 20. 21st Century Common Man Part 1 21. A Time For Heroes Notes 1. This is virtually the same as Livemiles 2.1. 5. A short extract, only a minute or so long, from near the middle. 6. Again, only about 2 minutes' worth. 7. A fair bit longer than the official version. 8. A remixed verison, with many differences from the Le Parc version - including drum machine backing. 9. On German radio in 1989, they played the first 4 - 5 minutes or so of this track, and called it Samba Motel, but in essence that's merely an elongated introduction to Scuba Scuba, quite unlike the one that appears on Underwater Sunlight, mainly consisting of the backing track for Scuba Scuba overlaid with sampled whistles. 10. A short track in two parts. The first consists of thunder effects and a sort of 'raindrop' type effect; this appeared in the same place (ie directly after Scuba Scuba) during the '86 tours. The second part is a very short harpsichord patch piece, which presages the main theme of the following piano solo, more about which below. 11. This is a medley of several tracks. The basis for the piece is the unreleased Canyon Dreams piano solo piece, but flown in at various stages are quotes and ideas from Canyon Voices, Ricochet Part 2, Quichotte Part 1 and Tiergarten (in that order, I think) - surprising, perhaps, given that Tiergarten was later played as an encore. 12. An extension of the album version - no fade-out; where this should be there is instead an aeroplane sample (a little like that on Streethawk, but shorter) leading to a new section. 13. Firstly, this appears as Livemiles 2.2 on the album (though live it was actually slower than appears on the album.) Now, as for what it's actually called, there appears to be some confusion. In the same radio show that named Samba Motel, the latter 4 - 5 minutes of this track was played and called Sunnyvale. However, the radio announcer's track list gives the track between Dolphin Dance and Smile as Velvet Autumn! Bugger! 15. Longer than the album version, more guitar work. 20. Not the full track - a truncated ending not like that on the album. 21. The extended version, as on the 12' and CD single. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Here's what the radio announcer gave as the track listing:- Caspian Sea Sorcerer theme Zen Garden Dolphin Dance Velvet Autumn Smile (instrumental) Ride on a Ray Going West Yellowstone Park Encores: Tyger (instrumental) Tiergarten 21st Century Common Man Special Olympics Theme --------------------------------------------------------- Finally, a tape summary:- Known Fantape? Type LKR 01.08.87 Berlin Platz der Republik Yes AU 135 min. FM 135 min. + interview --------------------------------------------------------- Addendum: for those of you unsure of the notation for the parts of Livemiles played during the concert (2.1 & 2.2), the tracks on Livemiles are broken down in various ways, depending on which country you live in! They correspond thus:- UK Jive version US Caroline version 2.1 #5 2.2 #6 The left-hand notation means - track 2, index 1 (or 2.) There were 2 tracks on the original Jive version, indexed into 4 and 3 parts respectively. On the Caroline version, there are 7 actual tracks. John Burek & Mark Schaffer -- =============================================================================== Mark Schaffer 'Fourth gentleman required to share large Department Of Mathematics Hampstead gentleman.' Imperial College (Monty Python's Flying Circus) LONDON SW7 2BZ Tel 0171 - 589 5111 x58619 =============================================================================== From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 3:50 pm Subject: Re: Nightcrawlers/Manikin Really-From: 'Marcel Engels' > >>* Peter D. Gulch is/was the founder/leader of The Nightcrawlers, a band > >>that put out some 30 cassettes, but only 3 albums and no CDs. > > > >A re-release of the three albums on CD is in the making at Manikin > >records. > > You're kidding. What country is this label located in? The address for Manikin Records is: Manikin Records Mario Schonwalder Musikproduktion Postbox 450274 Germany Phone: +49 +30 712 1540 He has a lot of 'special' e-music for sale. You can also order the Klaus Schulze 25CD box here. Marcel From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 4:00 pm Subject: Re: Beaubourg (was: Re: emusic faves) Really-From: 'Grant Middleton' > << >Vangelis-Beaubourg > > You gotta be kidding. This sound like he threw all the pots and pans > from kitchen down a flight of stairs and recorded it. This was the > second Vangelis album I bought. It was also the last. I sold it back to > the shop. > > Scott >> > > Really, Scott? I think this rates top marks along with Pat > Metheny's 'Zero Tolerance For Silence' and Zappa's 'Make A Jazz > Noise Here'. I've got to agree with Scott. Even though I love many abstract and quite cacophonous pieces (Zeit, Phaedra, etc.), I find I require some kind of connection to planet Earth. Beaubourg for me is just a collection of sounds thrown together, with no discernable 'thread', whilst the TD tracks I mentioned flow from one moment to the next in a 'liquid' fashion. I have similar difficulty with Dark Side of the Moog. Especially as one of its creators was responsible for the wonderful 'Mirage'. Of course, the Big V may have been wanting to create an acid- casualty 'detached' effect, in which case he succeeded admirably. > 'One hand clapping can be quite loud when your face gets in the > way.' - A Not So Famous Zen Saying. That is a great phrase, Phil ! Loved it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _.^~~~~~\ Grunt ! [, @ E-Mail : grantm@d... \______/ /\ /\ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 4:22 pm Subject: TD does the classics Really-From: Gabe Yedid My votes would go to: Astronomy Domine (PF) Orion (Metallica) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1764 TD does the classics Michael Fox Wed 3/12/1997 2 KB 1785 Re: TD does the classics Mark Filipak Wed 3/12/1997 2 KB 1787 Re: TD does the classics Sean Montgomery Wed 3/12/1997 2 KB 1792 Re: TD does the classics Mark Filipak Wed 3/12/1997 2 KB 1820 Re: TD does the classics PENFOLD Thu 3/13/1997 3 KB 1876 Re: TD does the classics Boneheads1@a... Sat 3/15/1997 2 KB 1901 Re: TD does the classics PNaunton@a... Sun 3/16/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: 'Marakesh' promo CD Really-From: Steven Feldman Howdy All, I came across two neat items the other day: 1) MIRAMAR DECADE videotape, sealed, for $2.00 2) 'Marakesh' radio edit promo CD (from OPTICAL RACE, 1988) for $2.00. I looked up the 'Marakesh' CD in VOICES IN THE DUNES and it turns out that this is/was TD's very first promo-only CD. It is a 3 minutes and change version of a track that was originally 8 minutes and change. Too bad my CD player is kaput so I won't know what it sounds like for awhile. Oh, and VOICES IN THE DUNES says that only 600 of these were pressed. -- Steven Feldman and Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1709 Re: 'Marakesh' promo CD Sean Montgomery Tue 3/11/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 4:38 pm Subject: Re: TD Does the Classics At 20:08 97·03·10 -0500, you wrote: >What song would YOU like to hear them do? (points awarded for humour) Tequila 'We throw each piece of equipment three times out of the third floor of our studio complex. If it's still functioning properly, we'll take it on the road. If not, we send it back to Tokyo!...' -- Edgar Froese (founder of Tangerine Dream), on the easy way they decide on which instruments to take on the road. /^\ | pete | penfold@a... | | | YA .semi.random.sig.quote From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 4:46 pm Subject: Re: TD Does the Classics At 20:08 97·03·10 -0500, you wrote: >Really-From: Sean Montgomery >What song would YOU like to hear them do? (points awarded for humour) We Won't Get Fooled Again - The Who If not for that awesome sequencer section! The only two activities where the participants are called users are drugs and computers. /^\ | pete | penfold@a... | | | YA .semi.random.sig.quote Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1710 Re: TD Does the Classics Sean Montgomery Tue 3/11/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 4:51 pm Subject: Re: Network 388 Really-From: esanborn@B... (Erik Sanborn) I received this tape about a month ago but haven't got around to posting my thoughts on it. So, here goes... I usually like to listen to a new album at least three times before deciding if I like it or not. Sometimes an album will initially seem lukewarm but get better with age while other times the initial charm may wear off with subsequent listenings. With Network 388, my initial enthusiasm has not abated. I am not a musician but I have always had an intense interest in music, and sound in general. Network 388 is particularly pleasing to me in the range of sonic textures and melodies that appear in the various compositions and in the moods they evoke in me. The obvious influence from TD and probably other e-music artists coupled with the integrity of the compositions makes this compilation both a worthy tribute and a collection that stands up well on its own merit. I don't have the tape in front of me as I am writing this but I would like to make some comments about a few of the tracks. 'Tranquility Bass' bears more than a casual nod to TD without being simply a mix of favored musical lines or samples. It is professionally executed and infectious (pun intended) in its appeal. Looks like I may need to put in an order to Progtron to hear more of this good stuff. 8) 'Cross Country' and 'Down the Road' successfully paint a mental image with a theme of travelling, in much the same way that Schmoelling's 'Walking on Wooden Legs' captures the essence of its title. Listening to these two tracks brought back personal memories of driving across the USA. It is this ability to evoke distinct personal memories without losing accessibility by others that I believe is the hallmark of good music. It is also what I enjoy most about TD and music in general. 'Manhattan' is a lovely, well-organized composition that succeeds in portraying the beautiful side of an urban landscape. I am all the more attracted to it given that I loathe just about everything about cities. Well done. I don't intend to offend the other contributors of Network 388 by not making comments about their tracks. The omission of such comments is simply due to personal time constraints and a lack of confidence in my capabilities to objectively review music. But let me concur with a previous poster by offering the following rating: 4AS. Thanks to all the folks who made this tape possible. Warm regards, Erik Sanborn esanborn@B... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 4:49 pm Subject: Re: emusic faves Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' ><< >Vangelis-Beaubourg >> You gotta be kidding. This sound like he threw all the pots and pans >> from kitchen down a flight of stairs and recorded it. This was the >> second Vangelis album I bought. It was also the last. I sold it back to >> the shop. > Really, Scott? I think this rates top marks along with Pat >Metheny's 'Zero Tolerance For Silence' and Zappa's 'Make A Jazz Noise >Here'. It make Electronic Meditation sound like something you'd dance to at a party. IMWRAIO, of course. Scott From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 4:58 pm Subject: I Don't Know about 'Classics,' but how 'bout... Really-From: Brian_Kirby@p... >Really-From: Sean Montgomery > > >In the office today, we got sick of listening to the 'alternative' radio >station, so we flipped over to the 'classic rock' channel. Led >Zeppelin's Kashmir is playing...and I got to thinking, wouldn't this make >a swell candidate for a TD cover? After all - to date - the songs >that TD had chose to cover in concert are all 'classic rock' (House of the >Rising Sun, Purple Haze and Eleanor Rigby). > >What song would YOU like to hear them do? (points awarded for humour) > Actually, if they were going to do covers of anything, I'd want them to go for the absolute limit of 'bad' taste and do disco covers. I wasn't too fond of it when I was a kid, but having Edgar and Co. Tangentizing those cheezy string sections would just about make me wet my pants. Possible selections: 'Love to Love You Baby' (with orgasms, natch) - Donna Summer 'Disco Inferno' - The Tramps 'Love Hangover' - Diana Ross 'Funkytown' - Lipps Inc. 'Stayin' Alive' - BeeGees Barring that, there's always some good old 70's riffage, like: 'Frankenstein' - Edgar Winter Group 'Freebird (Bonus Beats Version) - Lynnrd Skynnrd (sp?) {This version, of course, would have to be at least an hour long} 'Black Dog' - Led Zeppelin 'Cocaine' - Clapton Or, how about some punk?: 'California Uber Alles' - Dead Kennedys 'Blitzkrieg Bop' - Ramones 'God Save the Queen' - Sex Pistols 'I'm So Bored With the USA' - Clash And finally (for now, anyway), rap: 'Fight the Power' - Public Enemy 'The Nigga Ya Love to Hate' - Ice Cube 'Follow the Leader' - Erik B & Rakim 'Me Myself & I' - De La Soul I'd get into heavy metal, but that list would just be too long. I'll leave you with two words... Sweet Leaf Insane in the membrane, B. Kirby PS - Of course, following in the TD tradition, none of these would have any vocals. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1712 Re: I Don't Know about 'Classics,' but how 'bout. Sean Montgomery Tue 3/11/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: Re: tadream-digest V15 #859 Really-From: Jerry Kindall Philip Meyer wrote: >Perhaps my CD of Poland is not complete :( It is marked: 'Extracts From >Poland - The Warsaw Concert'. The artwork is black and white. The CD is >marked Jive, CHIP22. The full Poland set is two CDs, so no, you don't have a complete version. -- Jerry Kindall Manual Labor Technical Writing; Internet & WWW Consulting Author of the Web Motion Encyclopedia The comprehensive animation and video reference for Web designers Coming Summer '97 from Waite Group Press From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 5:06 pm Subject: RE: TD Does the Classics Really-From: Sean Montgomery > In a gadda da vida? Now *this* I like! But would you really want Jerome clobbering out the drum solo? *grin* > Autobahn by Kraftwerk? (w/ Ed on vocals, of course) 'Fun-fun-fun on the auto-bahhn....' Given Edgar's stated opinion of Florian and the boys, unlikely to happen. > How about some traditional German music? Even better! I like the one they were singing in Schindler's List: 'Valkyr-ee! Valkyr-eye! Valkyr-ee! Valkyr-ah-ha-ha-ha-ha!' I'm sure TD has a 'polka' preset in their keyboards somewhere.... Oh, but this is getting silly... Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR http://www.topix.com/~sean 'I used to be indecisive, but now I just don't know' From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 5:15 pm Subject: Re: 'Marakesh' promo CD Really-From: Sean Montgomery > out that this is/was TD's very first promo-only CD. It is a 3 minutes > and change version of a track that was originally 8 minutes and change. > Too bad my CD player is kaput so I won't know what it sounds like for > awhile. This is the same version that was on the 'Taste of Private Music' sampler, and seems to be a studio hack-and-slice job intended to get it radio play, rather than an alternate version by the band. It leaves out the harsicordy intro, cutting in at the sequenced passage, and focuses mainly on the main driving 'chorus' part. As the second chorus part ends, the piece is faded off with echo added. I can't say it's much of an improvement. Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR http://www.topix.com/~sean 'I used to be indecisive, but now I just don't know' From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 5:27 pm Subject: Re: TD Does the Classics Really-From: Sean Montgomery > We Won't Get Fooled Again - The Who Well, perhaps they could seque from the end of Tangram Part One into this.... Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR http://www.topix.com/~sean 'Knowledge is power only if it doesn't make you depressed and cynical' From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 5:33 pm Subject: Re: TD Does the Classics Really-From: "Robin A.Seed" At 20:22 10/3/97 -0800, you wrote: >Really-From: Mark Filipak > > >Sean Montgomery wrote: >> >> What song would YOU like to hear them do? (points awarded for humour) >> > >Terrific thread seed Sean (yeragenius). How bout "Flakes" from Zappa's >"Sheik Yerbouti" in front of a Hollywood studio mockup? -- might put a >smile on a certain face. -- Mark > :) Hi, The Vocals are the crux of this song, Who would do the singing on Flakes? Jerome??????? ********************************************************************************* Robin.A.Seed Hong Kong e-mail rseed@asiaonline.net Tel: 9172 4180 ********************************************************************************* From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 5:39 pm Subject: Re: I Don't Know about 'Classics,' but how 'bout... Really-From: Sean Montgomery > Actually, if they were going to do covers of anything, I'd want them to go for > the absolute limit of 'bad' taste and do disco covers. I wasn't too fond of it > when I was a kid, but having Edgar and Co. Tangentizing those cheezy string > sections would just about make me wet my pants. > 'Disco Inferno' - The Tramps > 'Funkytown' - Lipps Inc. What an awesome idea!!! My favourite so far! A perfect excuse to dust off all the old 70s equipment... How about a shift from Rubycon into Donna Summer's 'I Feel Love'? 'Play that Funky Music' has possibilities too....the perfect tune to end a show (as the cover versions usually do). > 'God Save the Queen' - Sex Pistols This would also be very entertaining. Especially done with lots of harpsicord sounds. > 'Fight the Power' - Public Enemy I can almost picture this...complete with the police siren samples.... Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR http://www.topix.com/~sean 'Knowledge is power only if it doesn't make you depressed and cynical' From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 5:56 pm Subject: Re: OLD EM Really-From: Michael Fox At 09:54 AM 3/11/97 -0500, you wrote: >Really-From: MCINTYRE@p... > > >>Really-From: robert > >> Seems to me I recall hearing of group that took their name from Morton >>Subotnick's Silver Apples of the Moon. > >Sorry for the nitpicking, but my MA in English insists that I point out >that the source for Silver Apples of the Moon is the poem 'Song Of >Wandering Angus' by William Butler Yeats. Both Subotnick and the rock band >are alluding to Yeats. > >The homemade synthesizer Silver Apples used was called the Simeon after its >owner. TRC in Germany has released the two Silver Apples albums as a >single CD. > >John McIntyre >Physics - Astronomy Domine Dept >Michigan State University >mcintyre@p... > Simeon! That's it! Thank you--Morpheus can return! I can't say I recommend this stuff for purchase--maybe for 'historical' content? Thanks, John! Mike> From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 5:54 pm Subject: Re: D:-_-_-_'Wavelength'_-_-_- Really-From: Michael Fox Back in the '80's I lived in Cincinnati Ohio and was doing some live mixing for bands that came through town. One of my favorite shows (to recall) was a Depeche Mode show I did the stage mix for. All these little cheesy keyboards hooked to all these cheesy little computers. The show started at least an hour late while the band 'warmed up' in the ready room. By this time a lot of alcohol had been consumed by the crowd. The band started but about 3 songs in their system went nuts playing various sequnces to different tunes all at once. after about 15 minutes of this prattle, they shut down the sys only to find it wouldn't boot back up! End of show. A near riot ensued with a hapless band looking at me (offstage and out of sight) for help. Dodging the occasional bottle the band left the stage. Many cheesy little keyboards were broken by many cheesy drunks. Ahhhh...the memories......! At 09:48 AM 3/11/97 -0500, you wrote: >Really-From: PNaunton@a... > > >In a message dated 97-03-10 14:03:08 EST, you write: > ><< > is why I feel more drawn to the earlier TD music than to the more recent > > recordings. > > But is current TD any more reliant on machines than TD of yore? > Wavelength is almost all 'machines' (except for the piano). The > only difference is that the group's sound has always been dictated in > large part by the sounds of the machinery available to them at the time. > Digital sounds have led them down different roads than analogue sounds > did. But also bear in mind that Edgar and his collaborators do not exist > in an emotional or psychological vacuum. They're growing, changing > beings. And hey, if we look at the chart of TD 'phases' posted here > recently, they're about due for a return back to 'suites', which should > make a lot of people here happy (including myself). > > > Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR > http://www.topix.com/~sean > >> > There are machines and then there are MACHINES. There is probably >some validity to the concern that as machines become more and more >sophisticated that the operators become less and less necessary to run them. > I was amused to read on this list some time ago that TD, during a live >concert, left the machines playing on stage for a time, while they all went >off stage for a short break. Probably more for the comedic effect than >anything else. > What's my point? Oh, nothing really. TD is good. They have always >been good. They do, however, move in and out of a degree of mechanicalness >as the artists pendulum between rote response and emotionalism. All my >opinions, of course. > >Phil Naunton > > From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: Corrected Baumann & Franke Entries for TD POCKET DISCOGRAPHY Really-From: Steven Feldman >Subject: Re: TD POCKET DISCOGRAPHY 5.0 >Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 12:18:55 -0500 (EST) >From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) >Really-From: Vic Rek > >> PETER BAUMANN (1972-1977) solos: > >Please insert: >Phase by Phase (A Retrospective '76 - '81) - UK Virgin CDOVD 464, 1996 This is more like from 1976-83, judging by the track listing someone posted to this list the other day. >> CHRISTOPH(ER) FRANKE (1971-1989) solos: > >Additions: You made lots of alterations, so I'm posting the entire sections of the updated material below. Let me know if I *still* got something wrong. -- Steven Feldman and + + + + + + + PETER BAUMANN (1972-1977) solos: 9 76 ROMANCE '76 6 79 TRANS-HARMONIC NIGHTS (never released in the US) 2 82 REPEAT REPEAT (two-sided, glossy, 12' x 12' lyric sheet) 1 83 STRANGERS IN THE NIGHT - 96 PHASE BY PHASE ([{UK} Virgin Vault] compilation) CHRISTOPH(ER) FRANKE (1971-1989) solos: 7 91 PACIFIC COAST HIGHWAY ? McBAIN (limited release soundtrack from Chris' Sonic Images label) ? 92 UNIVERSAL SOLDIER (soundtrack composed by but not played by Franke) 5 93 THE LONDON CONCERT (live, w/ 3 covers [Vermillion Sands=Taking the Park]) ? NEW MUSIC FOR FILMS, VOL. 1 (sndtrck comp; mostly previously unreleased) 8 KLEMANIA (ltd ed; 1995 ed has different [better] mix & different booklet) ? 94 RAVEN (TV soundtrack; limited edition CD in 1994; released widely in '96) ?* ENCHANTING NATURE (PCH remixed; *4 new tracks) [from The Nature Company] 8 BABYLON 5 (ltd ed sndtrck; '95 ed adds 3 cuts, diff booklet & tray photo) ? 96 NIGHT OF THE RUNNING MAN (cabl TV sndtrck; w/ Berlin Symphonic Film Orch) ? THE CELESTINE PROPHESY (based on the book) ? TENCHI MUYO IN LOVE--THE MOVIE (sndtrck to Japanimation movie; digipak) ? PERRY RHODAN: PAX TERRA (inspired by a series of sci-fi novels) ? 97 BABYLON 5, VOLUME 2: MESSAGES FROM EARTH (TV soundtrack) ? TRANSFORMATION OF MIND (narration by Deepak Chopra, music by Franke) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 6:28 pm Subject: RE: TD Does the Classics Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' >'Fun-fun-fun on the auto-bahhn....' Given Edgar's stated opinion of >Florian and the boys, unlikely to happen. Actually, I believe it's 'Fahren fahren fahren auf die Autobahn,' meaning 'Driving driving driving on the Autobahn.' This is one of those tunes that everyone has a different idea of what they say. Scott From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 6:46 pm Subject: 'Legend' Soundtrack Really-From: 'Maxwell A. Croy' In response to the pocket discog. in the last digest, I do believe that the 'Legend' soundtrack was released in the U.S. because I saw a copy at a music store in Seattle (The Wherehouse), and to the best of my knowledge, they don't get imports.... Maxwell (moonboy) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1728 Re: 'Legend' Soundtrack Mark Filipak Wed 3/12/1997 2 KB 1734 Re: 'Legend' Soundtrack feldon@n... Wed 3/12/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 7:21 pm Subject: Shepherd's Bush Tree info Update Really-From: 'Francisco Salgado C.' Hi, people Well this the first info on this tree. First I am amazed at how few of you have signed until now. Only 15 persons did it, so I'm beginning to think there is some apathy on this list, as mentioned by some E-music artists here. Maybe the lack of interest is due to what I've said about the master seed. Well this tape isn't indeed a fantastic recording but after those digital manipulations I think I got a very decent sound. BUT I HAVE VERY GOOD NEWS that might decide those who didin't signed yet. After my announcement of this tree I've received a message from John Burek offering me a much better recording of this show with ALMOST THE FULL CONCERT and with FANTASTIC QUALITY. It lacks only the last two encores, but, also, we have those last encores on another tape so I'm glad to offer you the full length concert with a much better quality recording. I will do A/D conversion using a Superbit Mapping A/D by Sony (SBM-1) and, if neccesary, I am able to remove all unwanted noise present on this tape without no detectable signal degradation. I don't think it would be neccesary to equalyze the signal this time since quality seems to be fantastic and I don't want to do anything unnecessary to avoid sound degradation as much as possible, but if there is the need to do it Sound Forege 4 has powerfull a parametric equalyzer to do it more perfectly than any analog device. Finally I will normalyze it to 0 dB the same way Gerome is proud is done by his patented DQC system, using noise shaping and dithering to avoid signal loss produced by truncation down to 16 bits. I will do what i can to insure the quality on this tree. there will be a small delay ( abour 15 days) to let me receive and digitally process those tapes. But I think it's worth of it. It's a pity I haven't got this tape before but better late than never. Another thing: I don't have a mean to go from DAT to CDR-R and there is nobody in the USA who had signed DAT> CDR so I encurage those american boys having those capabilities to sign for this tree. I need a couple of you to do about 6 copies to be distributed to the CDR braches. Those are, aganin the headings of this tree: -------------------------------------------------------------------- THE TREE 1. If you are signing up as a digital branch - the default is at least 4 clones. I will be asking each person what their set up is like. (ie. recorders, and can you do digital clones) Any person who cannot optically or coaxially (or AES/EBU) clone a show should sign up as a leaf only; or as DIGITAL to ANALOG branch, if he has a posibility to do a cassette copy from DAT. 2. If you are doing DAT or analog tape clones for this tree, please use the following guidelines: --Please use new tapes. --Please unpack the tape by fastforwarding and rewinding the tape prior to recording on it. --Please leave at least a one (1) minute recorded blank space leader at the beginning of the clone. This will also minimize dropouts for the tree. --Don't do analog copies at hig speed cloning. --Use the noise reduction method agreed with your child. I would like everybody to use Dolby C at least to keep genarational noise incrrease at a minimum rate. --Use Chrome Extra class or better tape ( Maxell XL-II, TDK SA etc). 3. If you are signing up for a branch. I am going to ask you how many people you can spin tapes ( CD-R) for people. 4. If you are receiving the tape from your parent, feel free to send your list to your parent to set up a trade for the show, or send blank cassettes, DAT or CD-R's for the show. It should be decided amomg yourselves. 5. If you are signing up as a leaf- meaning you have no optical, or coaxial cloning capabilities, then please help out your parent by supplying the blank for the show. 6. All members of the tree will be notified of the tree structure within a reasonable time period. I will make an announcement to this list when the tree structure is closed. Expect the tree structure to be emailed to you shortly following the closing announcement. 7. Please save this entire tree announcement for future reference. But PLEASE do not send me the entire announcement to sign up for the tree. 8. Rules to be inclusive of this tree: --No profiting from tree- No 2 for 1's trades. --Please don't give me email addresses that will change. SIGNING UP Important -- Please make one of the following subject headings in your subject in your e-mail to me: 'TD 11/30/96 D>D4' - meaning that you have DAT cloning capabilities and you'll clone this tape for 4 other people. D5 or D6 are also acceptable if you are willing. 'TD 11/30/96 D>CD-R4' Meaning you are able to do DAT to CD-R via digital means ( S/PDIF, AES/EBU) for 4 other people. 5 or 6 are also acceptable if you are willing. 'TD 11/30/96 CD-R>CD-R4' Meaning you are able to do CD-R to CD-R via digital means ( S/PDIF, AES/EBU) for 4 other people. 5 or 6 are also acceptable if you are willing. 'TD 11/30/96 D>CaS4'Meaning you are able to do DAT to analog cassete for 4 other people. 5 or 6 are also acceptable if you are willing. 'TD 11/30/96 CDR>CaS4'Meaning you are able to do CDR to analog cassete for 4 other people. 5 or 6 are also acceptable if you are willing. 'TD 11/30/96 CaS>CaS4'Meaning you are able to do analog to analog cassete for 4 other people. 5 or 6 are also acceptable if you are willing. 'TD 11/30/96 DAT LEAF'- meaning that you have NO DAT cloning capabilities nor analog cloning.and wish to receive a digital clone of this show. Expect to send a blank to your parent for the trade or some sort of trading agreement can be made with your parent. You may offer to let him/her borrow a master of yours for him/her to clone for the trade and send it back with your tape.Please, NO 2:1 trades allowed on this tree. 'TD 11/30/96 ANALOG LEAF' meaning that you have no cloning capabilities and wish to receive an analog clone of this show. Sign-up as leafs at your own risk. I will try to incorporate as many people as I can in this tree. Too many leafs can hinder the trees length, and growth. No CDR leafs are accepted, only CDR branches. For my sanity, please make your subject heading one of the choices above. It will make the tree go out faster and it will be easier to read. All sign-ups go to me at : If you are signing up for this tree, please include the following to me: For the branches Body of message = copy from here ~>| 1) Contact info.? Francisco Salgado D-D6 (Spain) 2) Cloning set-up? Hard Disk> Digital S/PDIF interface> DAT (TCD-D8) 3) # of copies again? 6 4) Average turn-around time? 5 days 5) Would you like to trade for the show or send a blank? trade 6) Would you accept a blank for the trade? yes 7) If you like to trade, can you send your list via email or do you have a URL for your list? I can send my list via email. 8) Can you clone optically or coaxially? Yes From DAT to DAT via PC (Just replace my information with your own. So, on the first line I want your first name, space, first letter of last name capitalized, period, space, less than sign, e-mail address, greater than sign, space, your role in tree (i.e., D-D), # of copies you'll be making, space,Country in parentesis, and state initials if you live in USA. And on lines 2-5 just answer the appropriate questions replacing my info. with your own.) * Preference at the D > D level will be moderated between # of copies you're willing to clone, # of decks you own or have access to, and your turn-around time. II. If you're going to sign-up as leaf then follow these instructions: Subject line = 'DGQ 9/27/96 DAT ( or ANALOG) LEAF' (as stated above) Body of message = copy from here ~>| 1) Contact info.? Jhon Doe D-L 2) Why can't you clone? I only have one DAT machine. 3) Do you have DAT masters, or no, I just trade? Yes I tape shows. 4) Would you like to trade for the show, or send a blank? trade if possible. 5) If you'd like to trade, can you send your DAT list via email or do you have a URL for your list? I can send my list via email. 6) Are you willing to send out masters/clones to your parent to trade for the show? (Knowing that you're master/clone will be returned with your new TD show) [Just replace mock information with your own. So, on the first line I want your first name, space, first letter of last name capitalized, period, space, less than sign, e-mail address, greater than sign, space, your role in tree (i.e., D-L), space, country and state initials if you live in USA in parentheses. And on lines 2-4 just answer the appropriate questions replacing mock info. with your own.] -------------------------------------------------------- Info about your state is to try to make brabches based on mail proximity. regards Francisco Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1738 Re: Shepherd's Bush Tree info Update Craig R. J. Cordrey Wed 3/12/1997 2 KB 1746 Re: Shepherd's Bush Tree info Update Francisco Salgado C. Wed 3/12/1997 2 KB 1808 Re: Shepherd's Bush Tree info Update Robin A.Seed Thu 3/13/1997 2 KB 1817 Re: Shepherd's Bush Tree info Update feldon@n... Thu 3/13/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 3:15 am Subject: 'Associated Musician'?? Really-From: ashok prema To Mark, Andrew and the other folks who responded to MY bleating. Firstly - apologies for coming down HEAVY like on EM supporters. I should perhaps not be directing my annoyance at this Digest , but the opportunity seemed too good to miss to 'vent off' - perhaps unjustifiably in the light of your notices. To put it into context, the apathy I mentioned has been much a point of contention here in the UK where live shows have sen dwindling audiences for em - Frankes 'London Concert' was the pinnacle of a series of concerts featuring strong contenders - yet even that concert had a paying audience figure of only around 500. The following year, Haslinger played - the audience dwindled to around 200, The follwing year, I forget who the headline act was - but the audience figures were around 120. The last big name - Shultze playing in Derby a couple of years ago - the concert made a loss!! They need 800 to break even, they got something like 650. Recently a couple of gigs by respected synth musicians have been cancelled due to lack of audience response. Yet when Tangerine Dream tour - the audience come flocking!! Ironically, we here in the UK felt for a long time that the US scene was where it was all at - 'break into the US market and you're laughing' - was the sentiment of the day. Now it appears, that this may not be quite so. Shreeves 'Nocturne' was a flop in the States - as elsewhere - yet the musical quality was - to many minds - superior to TD's latest output. Anyway, perhaps theres an explanation I haven't thought of - I know none of us have the backing of any majors (- actually, thats not true - my own album came out on a subsidiary label to BMG - yet that didn't produce the desired effect - the only benefit being that my recording costs were all paid for and a relatively small advance was given me). What we really need is for one of us to rocketed into the limelight by Richard Branson .......... but then all the rest will still be left behind. Enough whingeiing, for those interested parties.....my album 'Of Times & Places' is available form Archie Pattersons 'EUROCK'. - and if you pester Ranjit - he will make it available also. Ash (never bitter and twisted - just p....d . off once in a while) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1739 Re: 'Associated Musician'?? Craig R. J. Cordrey Wed 3/12/1997 6 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 4:11 am Subject: Tranquility Bass Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) Hi Craig, >N.P. Tranquility Bass -The Infection of Time >(Just got this on Saturday, Mr. Hughes). Why thank you. Please mail me here or privately and let me know what you think of it. Hope you enjoy it anyway. Cheers David email : dhughes@g... web page : http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dhughes/tbass.html Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1731 Re: Tranquility Bass Vic Rek Wed 3/12/1997 2 KB 1748 Re: Tranquility Bass TWeibre361@a... Wed 3/12/1997 2 KB 1751 Re: Tranquility Bass Mark Filipak Wed 3/12/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 4:11 am Subject: Sales (or lack of them...) Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) Hi all, Can I follow this little exchange up before it all gets horribly out of hand? >>Really-From: 'Andrew J. Rozsa' >>Isn't it a bitch that once you are done listening to ALL of TD's stuff, there >>is so little to choose from? Or, is it that TD has spoiled us for anyone else? >>There seems to have been a subtle, but recurrent theme with respect to this >>comment for years. On this list and elsewhere. Waa! There's lots of music out there! Where've you been, maaan? ;) Ash Prema wrote : >Here I disagree vehemently!! The music is there alright! >I am sure that fellow contributors/musicians David Hughes and Paul Nagle >will agree - there is in fact APATHY towards other musicians from TD fans >in general! I wouldn't say there's apathy, Ash. I'm sure that if you mailed a large number of free copies of your disc to the list, you would find that people would rip your arms off to get 'em. I would hardly call the large number of people from around Europe and the States who came to London to see TD play 'apathetic'. I think I'm right in this but the main reason that some fans - not all - are reluctant to fork out for a disc from an unknown artist is that too many of us have been burned by poor quality rubbish in the past. I have bought a number of discs that critics have proudly declared to be the next great thing only to discover that the musical content therein amounts to little more than a grade II pianist mucking about with a couple of synth presets. Plus it sounds nothing like TD anyway! If pressed, I will give names... The problem is that there is so much _shit_ floating around out there posing as top quality EM that the danger of getting burned is very real. When you fork out upwards of $20 for a disc it isn't nice to discover that the disc is a waste of time and money. Certainly, I cannot afford to buy every disc that comes out but I do try to listen to as many new bands as I can. Occasionally, I find a pearl. A lot of the time you find the aural equivalent of a 'tagnut'. If you're after new bands I would recommend magazines like 'Sequences' which is available in the UK and Europe (and the States I think) from Mick Garlick (address below). He carries a CD every month featuring new EM bands and rare tracks from more established acts. It's because of Mick that we managed to get our feet onto the first rung of the EM ladder and we're playing at the next EMMA festival in May! So hats off to Mick! Contact : Sequences c/o Mick Garlick 3 Copseland, Claverton Down, Bath Avon BA2 6EA England >It is a constant source of irritation to myself and fellow musicians that >our music does not get the exposure it deserves. The real enemies are the Radio Stations. With the exception of some small local radio stations that _do_ give composers like us a chance (such a Scott Raymond, Ashley Franklin, William Fox, Brian Frick etc) most stations ignore this kind of music. They are too busy selling dodgy cars and double glazing to give two hoots about playing something different. That's why the effing Spice Girls are so damned popular! >Both Messrs Nagle and Hughes (aka Tranquility Bass) names have graced >these >columns - as being musicians of quality - yet how many orders have >they >received I wonder from other list members?? I _do_ receive messages from TD digest people all the time and a number of them have become firm friends (Hi Jeff, Scott, Michael, Dave...) but I don't resent the fact that the majority of people on the digest don't want to buy my music. It's their choice. But I can recommend that they give it a try. I have not yet received a message which says that our album is a load of crap - but there's still time! - and very few have turned up in the 'second hand' columns eighteen months after the album's release so we must have done something right! >Indeed - how many have visited their web-sites to discover what its all about?? To be fair, I only made my web-site public two weeks or so ago so I can't judge this. However, I would like to point out that our fabulous 'caption' competition has only received one entry so far. Now, that could be classed as apathy. >Really-From: Mark Filipak >I would even go so far as to loan an album out to various college and >community >radio jocks in my area (South Bay, SF Bay Area) so everybody >could hear it. >What do you say now? And what do the rest of the listees >say? My $0.02 --Mark Now, this is the kind of help that we need. EM is a field made successful by its fans and it's their efforts that keep the scene going. Thanks Mark. Finally, I would say that there really is _alot_ of good music available. My web page contains links to a number of excellent sites around the world which supports EM of many flavours. AD Music, Surreal-to-Real and NeuHarmony all provide quality EM which will appeal to anyone who subscribes to this list. Anyway, this isn't TD related so I'll pack it in now. If you're interested in the band, visit the web page or mail me. I'm happy to answer questions and help you find a source of the disc. Cheers David email : dhughes@g... web page : http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dhughes/tbass.html From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 9:52 pm Subject: Re: Babylon 5 oddity Really-From: Paul Edwards At 19:05 +1100 on 11/3/97, tadream@c... wrote: > Really-From: Ken Alexander > > I thought that all autographed ones had 9 tracks and all non-autographed > ones had 12 tracks. This one claims to have 12 tracks and yet it > plainly has the distinctive Franke signature on the front also. Don't know anything about the autographs, but the copy of B5 I received direct from Sonic Images as a promo had twelve tracks in four suites. I was under the impression that later recordings had more tracks (14?) -- it's the first I've heard of this nine track beast. Cheers, Paul From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 7:13 am Subject: Re: Raven/388/Chi Really-From: gary.cresswell1@v... tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: PNaunton@a... > > In a message dated 97-03-10 10:07:20 EST, Mike J writes: > > << The show itself was > pretty far out, and the some of the Vocals are less than inspired, but ALL > the music is by Chris Franke. >> > > Are you sure? Yes, it says that, but there is that, 'Addtional > Performances by ..........' What exactly does this mean? It really doesn't > say <<_all_ music composed by Chris Franke >>, whereas this is often written > in just those words on other albums. > > Phil Naunton I Understood the additional performances to mean guest musicians adding their vocals guitar work etc to C. Frankes compositions. And boy is it bad. Gaza From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 7:26 am Subject: Re: Babylon 5 oddity Really-From: gary.cresswell1@v... tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: Paul Edwards > > At 19:05 +1100 on 11/3/97, tadream@c... wrote: > > > Really-From: Ken Alexander > > > > I thought that all autographed ones had 9 tracks and all non-autographed > > ones had 12 tracks. This one claims to have 12 tracks and yet it > > plainly has the distinctive Franke signature on the front also. > > Don't know anything about the autographs, but the copy of B5 I received > direct from Sonic Images as a promo had twelve tracks in four suites. I was > under the impression that later recordings had more tracks (14?) -- it's > the first I've heard of this nine track beast. > > Cheers, > PaulI have the 9 track beast (autographed). apparantly it was a rush released for some Sci fi convention in the states. Cheers Gaza ps anyone like Orbital or shall I get my coat! From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 7:30 am Subject: Re: Babylon 5 oddity Really-From: gary.cresswell1@v... tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: Paul Edwards > > At 19:05 +1100 on 11/3/97, tadream@c... wrote: > > > Really-From: Ken Alexander > > > > I thought that all autographed ones had 9 tracks and all non-autographed > > ones had 12 tracks. This one claims to have 12 tracks and yet it > > plainly has the distinctive Franke signature on the front also. > > Don't know anything about the autographs, but the copy of B5 I received > direct from Sonic Images as a promo had twelve tracks in four suites. I was > under the impression that later recordings had more tracks (14?) -- it's > the first I've heard of this nine track beast. > > Cheers, > Paul Take 2 I have the 9 track beast (autographed). Apparantly it was a rush release for a Sci Fi convention in the States. Cheers Gaza ps anyone like Orbital or shall I get my coat! From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 10:32 pm Subject: B-Sides Really-From: Mark Filipak I miss B-sides. Especially from Europe, the A-side was the pop side that paid for the band and the B-side was what I played. Perhaps all albums should be doubles. One pop disc and one with good music on it. The pop disc could be a single even, who would care? -- the MTVers would have their single and the rest of us .... well, you get the idea. -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 10:10 pm Subject: Re: TD Does the Classics Really-From: Mark Filipak Robin A.Seed wrote: > > At 20:22 10/3/97 -0800, Mark Filipak wrote: > > > >Sean Montgomery wrote: > >> > >> What song would YOU like to hear them do? (points awarded for > >> humour) > >> > > > > Terrific thread seed Sean (yeragenius). How bout 'Flakes' from > > Zappa's 'Sheik Yerbouti' in front of a Hollywood studio mockup? > > -- might put a smile on a certain face. -- Mark > > > > :) > Hi, > > The Vocals are the crux of this song, > Who would do the singing on Flakes? Jerome??????? Well... they're not really sung vocals if I remember rightly. Actually all I do remember of this song is FZ half saying, half singing with a drum backing. E & J could do that! Edgar could do part in German and part in Valleyspeak. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 10:20 pm Subject: Re: 'Legend' Soundtrack Really-From: Mark Filipak tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: 'Maxwell A. Croy' > > In response to the pocket discog. in the last digest, I do believe > that the 'Legend' soundtrack was released in the U.S. because I saw a > copy at a music store in Seattle (The Wherehouse), and to the best of > my knowledge, they don't get imports.... > Maxwell (moonboy) I agree. I look all over the CD and though it doesn't say 'Made in USA' it doesn't say made in anywhere and it certainly looks like it's domestic (US, that is) -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 11:30 pm Subject: Re: Babylon 5 oddity Really-From: Ken Alexander > Really-From: Paul Edwards > Don't know anything about the autographs, but the copy of B5 I received > direct from Sonic Images as a promo had twelve tracks in four suites. I was > under the impression that later recordings had more tracks (14?) -- it's > the first I've heard of this nine track beast. My understanding was (and I personally own): suites tracks autographed SI-mailorder stores early version 3 9 yes yes no later version 4 12 no yes yes but now I see one in a store with: odd version 4 12 yes ? yes I call this thing the 'odd version' because I was not previously aware of any autographed 12-tracks. I am wondering if this is unusual. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Mar 11, 1997 9:57 pm Subject: Re: d:wavelength Really-From: 'Simon W. Hood' In message <199703110222.UAA26374@c...>, tadream mailing list writes >Really-From: Rich Maggio > > ><< >9) church theme -- mood filler, then about 2:00 it starts to get >interesting >>> > >This piece is expanded on disk 5 of Tangents. I forget the title >of the track on Tangents, but it is the 2nd to last track and >is about 12 minutes long. That piece is my favorite on disk 5. >The version on Wavelength is good, but the expanded version is >fantastic (IMHO). They develop the piece much more. The first >time I listened to it, it sent chills down my spine. > The music in the expanded track formed the first section of the second set during TD's 1980 European tour concerts (or at least their Edinburgh, Scotland, gig). It was fantastic live all those years ago, and it sent chills down *my* spine when I heard it on Tangents too. Even though it's been slightly remixed (rerecorded?), it brought back many happy TD memories. I wonder how many more concert recordings Edgar has hidden away... -- Simon W. Hood Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1732 Concert Recordings Sean Montgomery Wed 3/12/1997 2 KB 1777 Re: Concert Recordings dbrewer@a... Wed 3/12/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 1:36 am Subject: Re: Tranquility Bass Really-From: Vic Rek I was just thinking of Tranquility Bass today, well actually not until I threw on a CD compilation called Excursions in Ambience (1) by Caroline rel. in 1993. I was cooking dinner and I have no clue why I pulled this out and played it. But the first track sounded great and guess by who? I also discovered a few other cool musicians on this compilation. 777 (aka System 7 or vice versa) to name one. The group 'Sub Sub' also sounded cool, but never have seen an album by them. Anybody have any information on them (David?)? Vic > >>N.P. Tranquility Bass -The Infection of Time >>(Just got this on Saturday, Mr. Hughes). From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 1:34 am Subject: Concert Recordings Really-From: Sean Montgomery > I wonder how many more concert recordings Edgar has hidden away... Taken from the Tangerine Dream Homepage: 64. Roughly what percent of all the TD concerts within the last 25 years has the band taped for themselves? It may sound unbelievable but - there are tapes from each single concert they've ever played from 1971 up to now locked safely away at TD lawyer's office in London. Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR http://www.topix.com/~sean 'Knowledge is power only if it doesn't make you depressed and cynical' Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1777 Re: Concert Recordings dbrewer@a... Wed 3/12/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 3:47 am Subject: Re: Babylon 5 oddity Really-From: feldon@n... At 06:30 PM 3/11/97 -0500, you wrote: >Really-From: Ken Alexander > >My understanding was (and I personally own): > > suites tracks autographed SI-mailorder stores >early version 3 9 yes yes no >later version 4 12 no yes yes > >but now I see one in a store with: > >odd version 4 12 yes ? yes > >I call this thing the 'odd version' because I was not previously aware >of any autographed 12-tracks. I am wondering if this is unusual. Maybe the one you're looking at was autographed the *old-fashioned way*. In other words, someone literally got CF to sign it during a show and now its found its way into a bin... Morgan feldon@n... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 3:45 am Subject: Re: 'Legend' Soundtrack Really-From: feldon@n... At 02:20 PM 3/11/97 -0800, you wrote: >Really-From: Mark Filipak > >> Really-From: 'Maxwell A. Croy' >> >> In response to the pocket discog. in the last digest, I do believe >> that the 'Legend' soundtrack was released in the U.S. because I saw a >> copy at a music store in Seattle (The Wherehouse), and to the best of >> my knowledge, they don't get imports.... >> Maxwell (moonboy) > >I agree. I look all over the CD and though it doesn't say 'Made in USA' >it doesn't say made in anywhere and it certainly looks like it's >domestic (US, that is) -- Mark It would make sense for it to be a US release considering that, wasn't the Legend soundtrack by Tangerine Dream only used in the US release of the film? Morgan feldon@n... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: Re: Wavelength Really-From: Robert Forman <73652.1423@C...> << 9) church theme -- mood filler, then about 2:00 it starts to get interesting >> >>This piece is expanded on disk 5 of Tangents. I forget the title of the track on Tangents, but it is the 2nd to last track and is about 12 minutes long. That piece is my favorite on disk 5. The version on Wavelength is good, but the expanded version is fantastic (IMHO). They develop the piece much more. The first time I listened to it, it sent chills down my spine.<< This is The Silver Scale. For years it was available only on fan tapes of the'80-81 shows and was my favorite tune played at my all time favorite concert; Tangerine Dream at the Warfield Theater in San Francisco Ocotber, 1980. The Live version is more dynamic than the one on Tangents with some very exciting keyboard playing by Johannes and is about 16 minutes in length. >>Bob<< Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 2063 Wavelength GRHail@a... Mon 3/24/1997 3 KB 10918 Re: Wavelength Hammer1612@a... Sun 2/8/1998 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 5:16 pm Subject: [Fwd: Re: Sound Forge 4.0 (Was Concert Tape Tree)] From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 3:24 pm Subject: Re: A Compilation That is 50% Another Company's Stuff Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > Really-From: Steven Feldman > > >Phase-by-Phase : A Retrospective '76-'81 > > In their US incarnations, at least, the first two Baumann albums > were on Virgin, whereas the second two were on CBS. If such was also > the case in the UK, this would be an example of a compilation where a > record company issued product that they owned only 50% of. And that > would add ammunition to the Ubercollection thread. ;) > I don't know. The inlay for the compilation indicates that copyright (or publishing rights?) for each track is Virgin. Maybe he just changed labels for the US? > >Bicentennial Presentation > > Ack! :( I don't recall this title. I have all four Baumann > albums, and this doesn't ring a bell. And yet, I haven't played much > of REPEAT REPEAT or STRANGERS IN THE NIGHT for quite some time. ;) Again, according to the inlay card, this is 1976. I therefore assumed I came from the Romance '76 album (the inlay isn't so helpful to tell us which track comes from which album). --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi S3I Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) E-mail : cordrey@m... cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 3:39 pm Subject: Re: Shepherd's Bush Tree info Update Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' In my circumstance, it was more a case of confusion with the 'tree' system, rather than apathy. And, as far as I could make out, I'm stuffed as any sort of contributor or receiver because I don't have a DAT or CD-R compatible system. --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi S3I Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) E-mail : cordrey@m... cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 4:03 pm Subject: Re: 'Associated Musician'?? Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > Really-From: ashok prema > > To put it into context, the apathy I mentioned has been much a point of > contention here in the UK where live shows have sen dwindling audiences for > em - Frankes 'London Concert' was the pinnacle of a series of concerts > featuring strong contenders - yet even that concert had a paying > audience figure of only around 500. The following year, Haslinger played - > the audience dwindled to around 200, The follwing year, I forget who the > headline act was - but the audience figures were around 120. The last big > name - Shultze playing in Derby a couple of years ago - the concert made a > loss!! They need 800 to break even, they got something like 650. Isn't the problem here the fact that the fans are expected to travel hundreds of miles to see either an individual act or a group of acts playing at a single 'event'? Do these people do tours of the whole country? Maybe they can't afford to, but does that mean that fans then have to shell out to see people they've maybe only heard of, or perhaps have one CD of? I don't see that as apathy but as finincial constraints (but then again, I am a canny Scot). > Recently a couple of gigs by respected synth musicians have been cancelled due to > lack of audience response. Yet when Tangerine Dream tour - the audience > come flocking!! Yes, and having 'flocked' down to London for a weekend, total cost in the region of stlg400, I will be unable to 'flock' anywhere else for some time. I made that effort because I have more TD CDs than any other artist, they are my favourite band, they play a unique style of music which I love irrespective of the period and they hadn't played here for 6 years. (Of course, it was also rumoured to be their only live gig for some time, but we now have the European tour. I still hope Britain will get a visit again, perhaps closer to home). I didn't go to see Franke because a) Pacific Coast Highway sucks b) didn't know he was playing I didn't go to see Haslinger because a) FP and WWR are a little on the edge for me (too worldy and not e-musicy enough) b) didn't know he was playing I didn't go to see Schulze because a) some of his stuff is excellent, some of it is really, really naff b) didn't know he was playing Anyone spot a trend there? > Enough whingeiing, for those interested parties.....my album 'Of Times & > Places' is available form Archie Pattersons 'EUROCK'. - and if you pester > Ranjit - he will make it available also. > This is the crux, isn't it? No, your stuff (and a lot of the other stuff discussed on this list) isn't available in Virgin or Tower or HMV. We have to use mail order or web-based stores and there you lose a lot of people. Not necessarily people on this list, but just general fans who don't know about mail order or web-based (as I was until I joined this list some years ago). Once the music is out there, no-one can expect the fan to go rushing off to the nearest mail order firm and order every new CD by a band he hasn't heard of. It is either your or your record company's responsibility to market you and promote you - to force us to buy it because we're sick of hearing your name and seeing your face. As a result of Dave Hughes recent 'plugging' of his web-site (and the band to a lesser extent) he made a sale. But I still had to go 'searching' for it - find the web-site, access the relevant page, mail the company for the CD, hope they had it, could I trust them with my credit card number, etc. Maybe there is a little apathy in me, but much more than that and I'm not interested. Especially since for every ten CDs experimented you maybe only get 1 or 2 you actually like. As you say, a Richard Branson needs to scome to the rescue. --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi S3I Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) E-mail : cordrey@m... cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 9:22 am Subject: Oasis Really-From: 'Levente.Toth' Hi, Back after a break... Well, I just noticed the Oasis video description on the official homepage. I wonder whether somebody purchased it; opinions? It seems to be in the vein of Canyon Dreams, but before I rush out to order it, I thought I'd look for some opinions on it. Cheers, Levente -- **************************************************************** * Levente Toth (levi@c...) - Centre for Intelligent * * Systems, University of Plymouth, Drake Circus, Plymouth * * Devon,England WEB: www.cis.plym.ac.uk/cis/levi/home.html * * Tel: 44-1752-233514, 233516 / Fax: 44-1752-232583 * **************************************************************** Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 2892 Oasis Hilmar Kraft Mon 4/21/1997 2 KB 2907 Oasis Rich Maggio Tue 4/22/1997 2 KB 2909 Re: Oasis feldon@n... Tue 4/22/1997 2 KB 3429 Oasis Hilmar Kraft Sun 5/4/1997 5 KB 3581 Re: Oasis Craig R. J. Cordrey Tue 5/6/1997 5 KB 3599 Re: Oasis TangerineC@a... Tue 5/6/1997 2 KB 4906 Oasis Phil Vendy Wed 6/11/1997 2 KB 4926 Re: Oasis Jens Peschke Wed 6/11/1997 2 KB 5088 Re: Oasis Hilmar Kraft Tue 6/17/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 10:12 am Subject: TOB action request Really-From: 'Lars R. Jones' <105411.3107@c...> Dreamers Please help me! Somewhere I remember reading an interview in which Edgar was talking about how they came up with the title 'Tyranny of Beauty.' I don't have web access at the moment so please don't tell me it is on their homepage otherwise I would have looked there first (Hah! at least _this_ time I know it's not in voices!). Does this ring a bell with anyone? If so, can you please refer me to it or send me the relevant portion? (If it's on their homepage and can't be summarized/cut & pasted in a few sentences, I guess you might as well tell me as much...) If he is quoting some author/book/speaker could you please tell me who? or did they make this up? It's actually fairly important. thanks much in advance!!! Feel free to reply to me privately or publically (well, as long as you don't make me look like _too much_ of a doofus...) lars np: TOB (which for some reason has been particularly spellbinding lately... In fact, I've been playing more miramar than virgin stuff, go figure!) word for the day: 'mimesis' oh yes, HI ARMIN, you Orangentraeumer! :-) (I've been meaning to say that for about a week!) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1749 Re: TOB action request Paul Nagle Wed 3/12/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 10:12 am Subject: orb tape with magazine Really-From: 'Lars R. Jones' <105411.3107@c...> I'm not into the orb (mostly because I haven''t heard enough of them and because my money ends up buying TD instead) but I noticed there is a magazine out this month with an Orb tape included. I saw it Dillons here in London but don't remember the price or the title (sorry!!!!! I just remember it saying something like 'home killing is ruining the taping business' ) I imagine the hard core Orb fans already know this and I don't know if it is available in the US but if anyone doesn't know or can't get a copy, email while there are still available here and we can work something out. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 12:07 pm Subject: A technohead rants PS Really-From: 'Grant Middleton' I just realised that some people might have been confused by my last message. I use Pro-Tools III and Logic Audio at work. I can only afford stuff like Sound Forge for home use. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _.^~~~~~\ Grunt ! [, @ E-Mail : grantm@d... \______/ /\ /\ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 12:00 pm Subject: A technohead rants...(was Sound Forge, etc) Really-From: 'Grant Middleton' > > > Unfortunately, it's non-real-time, but until I can afford > > > Pro-Tools III for my home use, SF is quite sufficient. > > ProTools III is a multitrack non-destructive system but SF is a > destructive wave editor. They are very different from the application > side. > If you need a cost-effective non-destructive multitrack system try > Soundscape SSHDR-1 2.0. It's much more cheaper than ProTools Agreed. > has better sound quality Sheah, right. > much more reliable Sheah, right. Pro Tools III is the best system you can buy for pro-recording. Period. If it wasn't so, people wouldn't buy it, as it costs roughly 4 times more than a 'similarly specified' system. I run both a Pro-Tools III TDM system on a Power PC and Logic Audio for Windows 95. No contest. The automation of the TDM-based effects and mixing, together with the sheer number and quality of the plug-ins sets Pro- Tools apart from the herd. Using a noise-removal program like DINR _in real-time_ is the eighth wonder of the world ! Sorry for the rant, I just LOVE the darn thing, and I take it bad when someone belittles it. And, no, I have no connection with Digidesign, other than being a (very satisfied) user of their gear. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _.^~~~~~\ Grunt ! [, @ E-Mail : grantm@d... \______/ /\ /\ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1789 Re: A technohead rants...(was Sound Forge, etc) Pixel Wed 3/12/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 12:40 pm Subject: Re: Sound Forge 4.0 ( No TD content) Really-From: 'Francisco Salgado C.' Hi Gabor, you said > > Unfortunately, it's non-real-time, but until I can afford > > Pro-Tools III for my home use, SF is quite sufficient. > ProTools III is a multitrack non-destructive system but SF is a > destructive wave editor. They are very different from the application > side. If you mean every time the work is done the editor goes down to 16 bits, that's rigth. If you mean it doesn't have an undo feature it's wrong. SF has several levels of 'undo'. > And, if you need real-time wave editor, try Steinberg Wavelab > from version 1.5. I tried it's demo version and I didn't like it. It's very fast but very sparse, lacking features present on S.Forge plug-ins. And If your wave file is very large compared to the max. virtual memory of the it can't handle it. Besides real time is not necessary. You can make a batch file with the operations you want done to the wave file and run the editor during the nigth. In the morning you'll have everythig done. regards Francisco Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1774 Re: Sound Forge 4.0 ( No TD content) feldon@n... Wed 3/12/1997 3 KB 1791 Re: Sound Forge 4.0 ( No TD content) Pixel Wed 3/12/1997 2 KB 1793 Re: Sound Forge 4.0 ( No TD content) Pixel Wed 3/12/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 12:15 pm Subject: Re: Shepherd's Bush Tree info Update Really-From: 'Francisco Salgado C.' tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > > In my circumstance, it was more a case of confusion with > the 'tree' system, rather than apathy. And, as far as I > could make out, I'm stuffed as any sort of contributor or > receiver because I don't have a DAT or CD-R compatible > system. > Don't you have a cassette deck ? If you are able to make cassette copies you could sign for an analog branch ; even if you can't clone analog you can sign for an analog leave. francisco. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 1:52 pm Subject: Re: Beaubourg Really-From: Gary Davis ><< >Vangelis-Beaubourg > > You gotta be kidding. This sound like he threw all the pots and pans > from kitchen down a flight of stairs and recorded it. This was the > second Vangelis album I bought. It was also the last. I sold it back to > the shop. > > Scott >> This is one of two truly 'out there' albums by Vangelis, the other being Invisible Connections on Deutsche Grammaphone, the classical label. It is really a shame that Scott has made such a judgement on Vangelis based on so uncharacteristic a work. I would strongly recommend you give Vangelis another shot. He's really one of the best. Try some more recent things like Voices, Blade Runner or 1492. An interesting tidbit not well known about Beaubourg is that it was influenced by the George Pompidou Centre in Paris, which is a big modern museum of bizarre architecture also known as the Beaubourg. It was close to where Vangelis had an apartment at the time. Gary See my Christopher Franke page at ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com OtherRoad@a... SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1753 Re: Beaubourg Grant Middleton Wed 3/12/1997 3 KB 1754 Re: Beaubourg Plumer, Scott Wed 3/12/1997 3 KB 1756 Re: Beaubourg Plumer, Scott Wed 3/12/1997 2 KB 1768 Re: Beaubourg Vic Rek Wed 3/12/1997 2 KB 1890 Re: Beaubourg Larry E Smith Sat 3/15/1997 3 KB 1900 Re: Beaubourg PNaunton@a... Sun 3/16/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 2:05 pm Subject: Re: Tranquility Bass Really-From: TWeibre361@a... In a message dated 97-03-11 23:01:47 EST, you write: << The group 'Sub Sub' also sounded cool, but never have seen an album by them. Anybody have any information on them >> do u mean Sub Dub? if so, they work with the wordsound posse outta brooklyn, and have one album out that i know of, which is self titled and is on instinct (1996)...they also have been doing alot of work with dj spooky and can be found on the incursions in illbient compilation...nice trancey, beaty material...recommended... tom w np: vidna obmana - river of appearance From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 8:09 pm Subject: Re: TOB action request Really-From: Paul Nagle On Wed, 12 Mar 1997 05:12:34 -0500, you wrote: >Please help me! Somewhere I remember reading an interview in which Edgar >was talking about how they came up with the title 'Tyranny of Beauty.' I According to Edgar the meaning is down his belief that Beautiful people get an unfair advantage in life just by being beautiful. 'What about everyone else?' he asks, making sure to stare straight ahead of him... 8-) Paul --------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ ------- Paul Nagle - paul@s... www.softroom.demon.co.uk (Upd. 06/03/97) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ ------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 2:58 pm Subject: RAVEN Really-From: Michael A Jean Really-From: PNaunton@a... the music is by Chris Franke. >> Are you sure? Yes, it says that, but there is that, 'Addtional Performances by ..........' What exactly does this mean? It really doesn't say <<_all_ music composed by Chris Franke >>, whereas this is often written in just those words on other albums. Phil Naunton Any think that anyone who has the disc can hear Franke's signature sounds. on all the tracks. I think 'additional performance' means 'on top of' rather than'instead of'... We can always write and ask him to be certain... Mike J From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 3:29 pm Subject: Re: Tranquility Bass Really-From: Mark Filipak Vic Rek wrote: > > I was just thinking of Tranquility Bass today, well actually not until > I threw on a CD compilation called Excursions in Ambience (1) by > Caroline rel. in 1993. I was cooking dinner and I have no clue why I > pulled this out and played it. But the first track sounded great and > guess by who? I also discovered a few other cool musicians on this > compilation. 777 (aka System 7 or vice versa) to name one. The group > 'Sub Sub' also sounded cool, but never have seen an album by them. > Anybody have any information on them (David?)? > > Vic > > > > >>N.P. Tranquility Bass -The Infection of Time > >>(Just got this on Saturday, Mr. Hughes). Unfortunately Vic, that is a different Tranquility Bass, not David Hughes. This has appeared on several comps -- some rabbit owns the rights. THAT Tranquility Bass is unknown and has totally disappeared. (Probably scared away by our Tranquility Bass :-) -- Mark PS: I have System7 'power of seven' on Hypnotic (CLP 9809-2) for trade or sale ($7). From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 10:29 pm Subject: Track Info Request Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' I can see a pattern starting to form here - John or Mark posts a TRACKLIST and then I ask about all the tracks I can't place. So, your help would once again be appreciated in identifying the location or source (i.e. which album, single, etc.) of the following : Dolphin Smile A Time for Heroes (just a single?) Thanks very much. --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi S3I Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) E-mail : cordrey@m... cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1755 Re: Track Info Request m.schaffer@i... Wed 3/12/1997 3 KB 1757 Re: Track Info Request Plumer, Scott Wed 3/12/1997 2 KB 1765 Re: Track Info Request Mark Filipak Wed 3/12/1997 4 KB 1781 Re: Track Info Request Sean Montgomery Wed 3/12/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 3:50 pm Subject: Re: Beaubourg Really-From: 'Grant Middleton' tadream mailing list wrote: > An interesting tidbit not well known about Beaubourg is that it was > influenced by the George Pompidou Centre in Paris, which is a big modern > museum of bizarre architecture also known as the Beaubourg. It was close to > where Vangelis had an apartment at the time. Even more interesting is the fact that IRCAM, the French experimental audio centre is in the basement of the Pompidou. They churn out stuff even less palletable than Beaubourg ! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _.^~~~~~\ Grunt ! [, @ E-Mail : grantm@d... \______/ /\ /\ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 3:46 pm Subject: Re: Beaubourg Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' >> You gotta be kidding. This sound like he threw all the pots and pans >> from kitchen down a flight of stairs and recorded it. This was the >> second Vangelis album I bought. It was also the last. I sold it back to >> the shop. >This is one of two truly 'out there' albums by Vangelis, the other being >Invisible Connections on Deutsche Grammaphone, the classical label. It is >really a shame that Scott has made such a judgement on Vangelis based on so >uncharacteristic a work. I would strongly recommend you give Vangelis >another shot. He's really one of the best. Try some more recent things >like Voices, Blade Runner or 1492. Actually, I _do_ have Blade Runner. I picked up the cassette for 25 cents at a record store sale. I rather liked it until it killed my car tape player. Another strike against Vangelis! I do really like his soundtrack work (except Chariots of Fire). Beauborg was just so incredibly unlistenable it taught me to hear something before I buy it. Scott From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 4:12 pm Subject: Re: Track Info Request Really-From: m.schaffer@i... > > Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > > > I can see a pattern starting to form here - John or Mark > posts a TRACKLIST and then I ask about all the tracks I > can't place. Hmmmmmm, call me Mr Reading-Things-Into-Other-Things, but I think you'd like some single/album info with each! The omission of such details is my doing, I thought it would clutter up the lists. Mea culpa. > So, your help would once again be appreciated in > identifying the location or source (i.e. which album, > single, etc.) of the following : > > Dolphin Smile The Relativity 12' of Dolphin Dance. Also appears on the boot 70/90 (if you can find one!) > A Time for Heroes (just a single?) Several singles (7', 12', CDS.) Specially released for the 1987 Special Olympics. Based on a track originally recorded & released by Meat Loaf & someone else, I think (but don't quote me on that one.) > Thanks very much. You're welcome. Toodly-pipsky, Mark Next up: anybody's guess. Maybe Berlin '90, maybe something else....... who can tell? -- =============================================================================== Mark Schaffer 'Fourth gentleman required to share large Department Of Mathematics Hampstead gentleman.' Imperial College (Monty Python's Flying Circus) LONDON SW7 2BZ Tel 0171 - 589 5111 x58619 =============================================================================== From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 4:20 pm Subject: Re: Beaubourg Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' >Even more interesting is the fact that IRCAM, the French >experimental audio centre is in the basement of the >Pompidou. They churn out stuff even less palletable than >Beaubourg ! That's impossble! I don't believe it! :-) Scott From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 4:22 pm Subject: RE: Track Info Request Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' Wow! Mystery track stuff that I can actually answer! >Dolphin Smile Released on a 12' single with Dolphin Dance and Song of the Whale. >A Time for Heroes (just a single?) This is from the soundtrack for the Special Olympics. Scott From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 9:33 pm Subject: Re: RE: TD Does the Classics Really-From: Dennis Nigbur On Tue, 11 Mar 1997 13:28:00 -0500 tadream mailing list wrote: >Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' > >Actually, I believe it's 'Fahren fahren fahren auf die Autobahn,' >meaning 'Driving driving driving on the Autobahn.' This is one of those >tunes that everyone has a different idea of what they say. > >Scott What it actually says is 'Fahren, fahren, fahren auf der Autobahn'. The infinite complexities of German grammar...I, personally, don't really like the song anyway. Talking about Kraftwerk songs, a TD version of 'The Model' would be nice. Dennis From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 9:39 pm Subject: Poland versions Really-From: Dennis Nigbur On Tue, 11 Mar 97 12:06:26 -0500 tadream mailing list wrote: >Really-From: Jerry Kindall > >The full Poland set is two CDs, so no, you don't have a complete version. >-- >Jerry Kindall >Manual Labor >Technical Writing; Internet & WWW Consulting > >Author of the Web Motion Encyclopedia >The comprehensive animation and video reference for Web designers >Coming Summer '97 from Waite Group Press I've got the incomplete version aswell. About a week ago, I saw a 'Poland' CD in Tower Records, stating Poland, Tangent, Barbakane, and Horizon as tracks (which is exactly the tracklisting in the TD homepage discography). It seemed to be only one disc, though. Now, is that the full version or not? Does anyone have a track listing of the REAL full version?? Dennis Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1762 Re: Poland versions m.schaffer@i... Wed 3/12/1997 3 KB 1769 Re: Poland versions Grant Middleton Wed 3/12/1997 3 KB 1775 Re: Poland versions feldon@n... Wed 3/12/1997 3 KB 1779 Re: Poland versions dbrewer@a... Wed 3/12/1997 3 KB 1790 Re: Poland versions Mark Filipak Wed 3/12/1997 4 KB 1830 Re: Poland versions feldon@n... Fri 3/14/1997 2 KB 1869 Re: Poland versions Dennis Nigbur Fri 3/14/1997 2 KB 1889 Re: Poland versions Dennis Nigbur Sat 3/15/1997 2 KB 2098 Poland versions feldon@n... Wed 3/26/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: Re: tadream-digest V15 #860 Really-From: DFO@C... > Subject: Re: Tranquility Bass > Really-From: Vic Rek > > I was just thinking of Tranquility Bass today, well actually not until I > threw on a CD compilation called Excursions in Ambience (1) by Caroline rel. > in 1993. I was cooking dinner and I have no clue why I pulled this out and > played it. But the first track sounded great and guess by who? Wrong! This is a totally different guy, a Californian named Mike Kandel. In fact I was the one who informed Dave of the identity of this other 'Tranquility Bass'. Since Mike Kandel used the name first, Dave has been trying to contact him to make sure there are no legal problems. (Hope you don't mind me talking about this in public Dave.) I just saw on the IDM mailing list that Mike Kandel has just issued another T.B. album on Astralwerks, so the potential for confusion will continue. > I also > discovered a few other cool musicians on this compilation. 777 (aka System > 7 or vice versa) to name one. The group 'Sub Sub' also sounded cool, but > never have seen an album by them. Anybody have any information on them > (David?)? Yeah I agree it's a great compilation, and was one of my very first stepping stones into ambient techno, which now occupies about 95% of my musical interests, while (in a reversal of what some other people have been saying here) I've become quite apathetic towards recent TD. A long time ago Ear/Rational had an import album from Sub Sub in their catalog, but I tried ordering it and they said they couldn't get it anymore. duane ott dfo@c... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1773 Re: tadream-digest V15 #860 Vic Rek Wed 3/12/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 4:41 pm Subject: Re: Concert Recordings Really-From: Mark Filipak tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: Sean Montgomery > > > I wonder how many more concert recordings Edgar has hidden away... > > Taken from the Tangerine Dream Homepage: > > 64. Roughly what percent of all the TD concerts within the last 25 > years has the band taped for themselves? > > It may sound unbelievable but - there are tapes from each single > concert they've ever played from 1971 up to now locked safely away at > TD lawyer's office in London. > > Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR > http://www.topix.com/~sean > > 'Knowledge is power only if it doesn't > make you depressed and cynical' Two words: Holy Shit! -- Mark (I wonder if I should write to Edgar and offer to put them on CDR?) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1786 Re: Concert Recordings Francisco Salgado C. Wed 3/12/1997 3 KB 1800 Re: Concert Recordings PNaunton@a... Thu 3/13/1997 2 KB 1803 Re: Concert Recordings Mark Filipak Thu 3/13/1997 3 KB 1814 Re: Concert Recordings TWeibre361@a... Thu 3/13/1997 2 KB 1831 Re: Concert Recordings feldon@n... Fri 3/14/1997 3 KB 1833 Re: Concert Recordings Francisco Salgado C. Fri 3/14/1997 3 KB 1902 Re: Concert Recordings PNaunton@a... Sun 3/16/1997 2 KB 1906 Re: Concert Recordings Mark Filipak Sun 3/16/1997 4 KB 1911 Re: Concert Recordings PNaunton@a... Sun 3/16/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 4:48 pm Subject: Re: Poland versions Really-From: m.schaffer@i... > > Really-From: Dennis Nigbur > > I've got the incomplete version aswell. About a week ago, I saw a > 'Poland' CD in Tower Records, stating Poland, Tangent, Barbakane, and > Horizon as tracks (which is exactly the tracklisting in the TD homepage > discography). It seemed to be only one disc, though. Now, is that the full > version or not? Not. > Does anyone have a track listing of the REAL full version?? > > Dennis > It's like this - all UK releases have some part or other missing. The original Jive release (CHIP22) didn't have Tangent, and Barbakane was edited down. The Castle release has also got something missing, the 'Rare Bird' part of Tangent, I believe. The only full version on CD is the (now deleted) Relativity version, on 2 CDs. Sorry about that! Mark -- =============================================================================== Mark Schaffer 'Fourth gentleman required to share large Department Of Mathematics Hampstead gentleman.' Imperial College (Monty Python's Flying Circus) LONDON SW7 2BZ Tel 0171 - 589 5111 x58619 =============================================================================== From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 10:00 am Subject: RE:TD Does the Classics Really-From: teiwazbarana@u... How 'bout Snoopy vs. The Red Baron --Thomas B. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 5:04 pm Subject: TD does the classics Really-From: Michael Fox Cool thread! lessee--TD is an instrumental band--how about inst. covers? How about 'Out of Limits' by the Marketts? How about anything by The Ventures? How about TD AND The Ventures teaming for an OOL cover? Or maybe Dick Dale and TD together? Or....gotta quit--drool getting on keyboard. Mike From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 5:03 pm Subject: Re: Track Info Request Really-From: Mark Filipak 'A Time For Heroes' was also on 70/90. -- Mark tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: m.schaffer@i... > > > > > Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > > > > > > I can see a pattern starting to form here - John or Mark > > posts a TRACKLIST and then I ask about all the tracks I > > can't place. > Hmmmmmm, call me Mr Reading-Things-Into-Other-Things, > but I think you'd like some single/album info with each! > > The omission of such details is my doing, I thought it > would clutter up the lists. Mea culpa. > > > So, your help would once again be appreciated in > > identifying the location or source (i.e. which album, > > single, etc.) of the following : > > > > Dolphin Smile > The Relativity 12' of Dolphin Dance. Also appears on > the boot 70/90 (if you can find one!) > > > A Time for Heroes (just a single?) > Several singles (7', 12', CDS.) Specially released for > the 1987 Special Olympics. Based on a track originally > recorded & released by Meat Loaf & someone else, I think > (but don't quote me on that one.) > > > Thanks very much. > You're welcome. > > Toodly-pipsky, > Mark > > Next up: anybody's guess. Maybe Berlin '90, maybe something else....... > who can tell? > -- > > =============================================================================== > > Mark Schaffer 'Fourth gentleman required to share large > Department Of Mathematics Hampstead gentleman.' > Imperial College (Monty Python's Flying Circus) > LONDON SW7 2BZ > Tel 0171 - 589 5111 x58619 > =============================================================================== From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 5:25 pm Subject: Apathy for new music Really-From: Michael Fox Re: Comments by Ash and others. For some years I did a Sunday AM radio show on a 50K watt FM station. As theree was no set format, I played quite a bit of TD as well as many other EM artists. I also did in-studio interviews w/ local musicians and solicited tape from anybody in the area. While I heard a few things I did use I also collected a lot of junk. As the show grew I was able to get promo material from most labels and still was innundated with marginal material. While the FAQ sheets about the artist always claimed the second coming, it was rare that was the case. The problem was I had so much material to wade through that more than a casual listen, unfortunately, was not possible. THe other problem was that if I did find something good, trying to get through the label to the artist (or nearer, anyway) many times was a frustrating and often dead end. More than a few times the A/R Publicity people were more interested in the market we were in (and since we weren't in a major metro area--ie:New York/La) than the fact that Someone Somewhere was attempting to expose a new or underplayed artist to a regular audience. Yes, I played the music and gave as much bio on the artist as I could, But I felt the people at the labels were shooting their own toes many times trying to go for thr BIG ONE rather than establishing a base to work from. I regulary conversed with other radio folk attempting the same type of thing and we all shared the same problem. PS--I may be reviving the show soon--I'll let you all know, and if I do, I'll be hitting you up for material!ö¿ö Just another perspective speaking. Mike From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 5:31 pm Subject: Re: TD Does the Classics Really-From: 'Grant Middleton' Would it be possible for them to hit the 'UNDO' key on 'Purple Haze' ? Poor Jimi was reported to be spinning in his grave at 2000 RPM. While we're on the subject, how about 'Popcorn' by Hot Butter. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _.^~~~~~\ Grunt ! [, @ E-Mail : grantm@d... \______/ /\ /\ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 5:26 pm Subject: Re: Beaubourg Really-From: Vic Rek At 11:20 AM 3/12/97 -0500, you wrote: >Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' > > >>Even more interesting is the fact that IRCAM, the French >>experimental audio centre is in the basement of the >>Pompidou. They churn out stuff even less palletable than >>Beaubourg ! > >That's impossble! I don't believe it! :-) > > Try listening to TONART w/Conrad Schnitzler. That beats them all! Vic From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 5:27 pm Subject: Re: Poland versions Really-From: 'Grant Middleton' > Really-From: Dennis Nigbur > I've got the incomplete version aswell. About a week ago, I saw a > 'Poland' CD in Tower Records, stating Poland, Tangent, Barbakane, and > Horizon as tracks (which is exactly the tracklisting in the TD homepage > discography). It seemed to be only one disc, though. Now, is that the full > version or not? Does anyone have a track listing of the REAL full > version?? I had the original vinyl of Poland (double album) and it only had those 4 tracks on it. My vinyl copy of Encore also had 4 tracks ( 1 track per side), yet it came as only 1 CD disc. I think you may actually have seen the full Poland set there. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _.^~~~~~\ Grunt ! [, @ E-Mail : grantm@d... \______/ /\ /\ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 5:27 pm Subject: addendum Really-From: Michael Fox I love this quote--from Mad magazine many years ago: 'Old Age is when a broad mind and a narrow waist reverse positions' Ciao, Mike From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 5:35 pm Subject: Re: TD does the Classics Really-From: 'Grant Middleton' The theme from 'Dr Who' !!! Tarrum de dum, rum de dum, rum de dum, tum te tiddly, rum te dum rum te dum, rum te dum, Woooo-eee-oooooo. Weeeee-oooohhhh-ooooooo. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _.^~~~~~\ Grunt ! [, @ E-Mail : grantm@d... \______/ /\ /\ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1782 Re: TD does the Classics Sean Montgomery Wed 3/12/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 5:37 pm Subject: Re: TD Does the Classics Really-From: 'Grant Middleton' Oxygene pts II, IV and V. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _.^~~~~~\ Grunt ! [, @ E-Mail : grantm@d... \______/ /\ /\ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 5:33 pm Subject: Re: tadream-digest V15 #860 Really-From: Vic Rek >> >> I was just thinking of Tranquility Bass today, well actually not until I >> threw on a CD compilation called Excursions in Ambience (1) by Caroline rel. >> in 1993. I was cooking dinner and I have no clue why I pulled this out and >> played it. But the first track sounded great and guess by who? > >Wrong! This is a totally different guy, a Californian named Mike Kandel. >In fact I was the one who informed Dave of the identity of this other >'Tranquility Bass'. Since Mike Kandel used the name first, Dave >has been trying to contact him to make sure there are no legal problems. >(Hope you don't mind me talking about this in public Dave.) I just saw >on the IDM mailing list that Mike Kandel has just issued another T.B. >album on Astralwerks, so the potential for confusion will continue. I guess I need to watch what I say? Anyway, the tune still sounded cool. >A long time ago Ear/Rational had an import album from Sub Sub in their >catalog, but I tried ordering it and they said they couldn't get it >anymore. > >duane ott Thanks for the information. So there really is a 'Sub Sub'. Does anybody out there have their album? Vic NP: Mark Shreeve - Legion (this NP is catching on..) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 5:41 pm Subject: Re: Sound Forge 4.0 ( No TD content) Really-From: feldon@n... At 01:40 PM 3/12/97 +0100, you wrote: >Really-From: 'Francisco Salgado C.' > >Hi Gabor, you said > >> > Unfortunately, it's non-real-time, but until I can afford >> > Pro-Tools III for my home use, SF is quite sufficient. > >> ProTools III is a multitrack non-destructive system but SF is a >> destructive wave editor. They are very different from the application >> side. Yes, SoundForge is not a true 'pro' program, but it's also $349 and I am VERY happy with the noise removal abilities of the Parametric EQ. I just set my preview to 60 seconds. It takes about 8 seconds to calculate the preview... And to back someone else up on the list, SoundForge is NOT a destructive WAVE editor unless you turn that 'feature/bug' on. You can undo ANY operation except Save (duh!). Morgan feldon@n... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 5:48 pm Subject: Re: Poland versions Really-From: feldon@n... At 04:39 PM 3/12/97 -0500, you wrote: >Really-From: Dennis Nigbur > >I've got the incomplete version aswell. About a week ago, I saw a >'Poland' CD in Tower Records, stating Poland, Tangent, Barbakane, and >Horizon as tracks (which is exactly the tracklisting in the TD homepage >discography). It seemed to be only one disc, though. Now, is that the full >version or not? Does anyone have a track listing of the REAL full >version?? Dennis, TRUST ME when I say that Poland is 2 CDs! I have seen (and quickly avoided) the 'Excerpts from Poland'. It has a cheap black and white (photocopy quality) cover. The full Poland 2CD has a 'wierd' black and white cover (it's on expensive paper and if memory serves, it's black, grey, washed-out purple, and white). I don't know the track list as I don't have the disc. I didn't even know it HAD a track list. Morgan feldon@n... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 5:58 pm Subject: more on TD does classics Really-From: Gabe Yedid how about Abba--'Mama Mia' (it already sounds rather like 'Turning Off The Wheel') Gabe Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1783 Re: more on TD does classics Sean Montgomery Wed 3/12/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 6:08 pm Subject: Re: Concert Recordings Really-From: dbrewer@a... > Quoted From: Sean Montgomery > > Taken from the Tangerine Dream Homepage: > > 64. Roughly what percent of all the TD concerts within the last 25 years > has the band taped for themselves? > > It may sound unbelievable but - there are tapes from each single > concert they've ever played from 1971 up to now locked safely away at TD > lawyer's office in London. > Yeah, but half of the tapes are probably disintegrated beyond all recognition by now. (unless they were hermetically (sp?) sealed in a mayonaisse jar on the porch! :-) ) Dave Brewer From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 6:26 pm Subject: (Yet another) TD Classic Really-From: dbrewer@a... I think they could do a good, extended version of Gary Wright's 'Dream Weaver', myself. (Martyn Capel also had this idea) The only thing is, I think the Froese/Haslinger/Froese lineup would have been the best for it. (MHO, of course!) Dave Brewer Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1784 Re: (Yet another) TD Classic Sean Montgomery Wed 3/12/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 6:22 pm Subject: Re: Poland versions Really-From: dbrewer@a... > Quoted From: Dennis Nigbur > > I've got the incomplete version aswell. About a week ago, I saw a > 'Poland' CD in Tower Records, stating Poland, Tangent, Barbakane, and > Horizon as tracks (which is exactly the tracklisting in the TD homepage > discography). It seemed to be only one disc, though. Now, is that the full > version or not? Does anyone have a track listing of the REAL full > version?? > Poland has the distinction of being the only non-compilation, official TD release that is too long to fit onto one CD in its entirety. Look at the track times on that CD you saw. If any of them are less than about 18-20 minutes, then it's been hacked. I think the Castle release has Barbakane hacked down to about 13 minutes, but the other three are still whole. Why do companies do stupid things like that anyway? Just so it can fit onto one CD?! That's lame. It's kinda like what happened to Melrose, whose master was supposedly 76 minutes long, but Private didn't want more than an hour on it... Doiii! (that's from the TDIFC, BTW... in case you didn't know) Try to find the Relativity 2CD version of Poland, if you can. (I know it's been stated before, but it should be driven into the ground!!! :-) ) Dave Brewer From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 11:51 pm Subject: Re: TD Does the Classics Really-From: Dennis Nigbur On Wed, 12 Mar 1997 17:37:19 +0000 tadream mailing list wrote: >Really-From: 'Grant Middleton' > > >Oxygene pts II, IV and V. > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > _.^~~~~~\ > Grunt ! [, @ E-Mail : grantm@d... > \______/ > /\ /\ >---------------------------------------------------------------------- Talking about Jarre, I think a TD version of Ethnicolour would be interesting. TD have been experimenting with funny voices all along (Alpha Centauri, Wahn, At Darwin's Motel, Bent Cold Sidewalk,...) Dennis Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1794 Re: TD Does the Classics Robert Grabowsky Wed 3/12/1997 3 KB 1798 Re: TD Does the Classics PNaunton@a... Thu 3/13/1997 2 KB 1818 Re: TD Does the Classics PENFOLD Thu 3/13/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 6:53 pm Subject: Re: Track Info Request Really-From: Sean Montgomery > So, your help would once again be appreciated in > identifying the location or source (i.e. which album, > single, etc.) of the following : > > Dolphin Smile A version of this is on the Antarktis concert bootleg, which might be easier to track down than the 70/90 disk. A nice track, similar to the quieter sections on Livemiles. > A Time for Heroes (just a single?) Yuppers. It was a one-time-only cd single release from 1987. The company that released it is bankrupt. I think the only place you're likely to find it now is on concert recordings. It's not a great track. It reminds me of the worst of Destination Berlin - but with horn samples. On this disk, TD share space with Meatloaf and Brian May of Queen - another reason not to lose sleep over not having a copy. Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR http://www.topix.com/~sean 'Knowledge is power only if it doesn't make you depressed and cynical' From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 7:06 pm Subject: Re: TD does the Classics Really-From: Sean Montgomery > The theme from 'Dr Who' !!! Ha ha! That's a good one! Of course, they have enough of their own soundtrack music to draw from... Maybe they could do a 'Dream Mixes' treatment on it? Oh wait, it's been done by the Timelords - 'Doctorin' the Tardis...' Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR http://www.topix.com/~sean 'Knowledge is power only if it doesn't make you depressed and cynical' From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 7:09 pm Subject: Re: more on TD does classics Really-From: Sean Montgomery > Abba--'Mama Mia' (it already sounds rather like 'Turning Off The Wheel') Mama Mia???? How about 'Does Your Mother Know?' I suppose in TDs hands that might sound dangerously like a Jarre number, though. Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR http://www.topix.com/~sean 'Knowledge is power only if it doesn't make you depressed and cynical' From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 7:12 pm Subject: Re: (Yet another) TD Classic Really-From: Sean Montgomery > I think they could do a good, extended version of Gary Wright's 'Dream > Weaver' *lol* Oh, man. I'd leave the concert hall if they pulled something like this! (just kidding, it would probably be fascinating) Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR http://www.topix.com/~sean 'Knowledge is power only if it doesn't make you depressed and cynical' From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 7:50 pm Subject: Re: TD does the classics Really-From: Mark Filipak Rolling Stones 'Satisfaction' Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1787 Re: TD does the classics Sean Montgomery Wed 3/12/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 6:47 pm Subject: Re: Concert Recordings Really-From: 'Francisco Salgado C.' tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: dbrewer@a... > > Quoted From: Sean Montgomery > > It may sound unbelievable but - there are tapes from each single > > concert they've ever played from 1971 up to now locked safely away at TD > > lawyer's office in London. > > > Yeah, but half of the tapes are probably disintegrated beyond all > recognition by now. (unless they were hermetically (sp?) sealed in a > mayonaisse jar on the porch! :-) ) Then Schulze likes mayonaise a lot since he has relesaed more than 14 hours of it's private tapes in Historic ans silver Edition boxes, and some more in his 25 CD aniversary set. Some tapes were from 1970. I have both Historic and Silver boxes and i have to say sound is very good technically speaking. regards francisco From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 8:18 pm Subject: Re: TD does the classics Really-From: Sean Montgomery > Rolling Stones 'Satisfaction' The scariest suggestion thusfar, in that I can almost see them doing this one. Well, maybe 'Gimme Shelter,' anyway. Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR http://www.topix.com/~sean 'Knowledge is power only if it doesn't make you depressed and cynical' From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 9:24 pm Subject: Re[2]: TD does the classics Really-From: Brian_Kirby@p... >> Rolling Stones 'Satisfaction' >The scariest suggestion thusfar, in that I can almost see them doing this >one. Well, maybe 'Gimme Shelter,' anyway. Or perhaps 'Bitch.' Gotta love that horn section! -B. Kirby From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 13, 1997 6:42 am Subject: Re: A technohead rants...(was Sound Forge, etc) Really-From: Pixel > Pro Tools III is the best system you can buy for pro-recording. > Period. If it wasn't so, people wouldn't buy it, as it costs > roughly 4 times more than a 'similarly specified' system. 'Best' can have different meanings from different aspects. I used both systems extensively and have some experience on them. ProTools is the best if you consider for example the very wide variety of plug-ins. Soundscape wins the user interface contest and it's much better expandable. > The automation of the TDM-based effects and mixing, together > with the sheer number and quality of the plug-ins sets Pro- > Tools apart from the herd. The same system is implemented in Soundscape 2.0 but with much faster DSP cards. > Using a noise-removal program like DINR _in real-time_ is the > eighth wonder of the world ! I love DINR too! Regards GG From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 10:08 pm Subject: Re: Poland versions Really-From: Mark Filipak tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: Dennis Nigbur > > On Tue, 11 Mar 97 12:06:26 -0500 tadream mailing list > wrote: > >Really-From: Jerry Kindall > > > >The full Poland set is two CDs, so no, you don't have a complete > version. > >-- > >Jerry Kindall > >Manual Labor > >Technical Writing; Internet & WWW Consulting > > > >Author of the Web Motion Encyclopedia > >The comprehensive animation and video reference for Web designers > >Coming Summer '97 from Waite Group Press > > I've got the incomplete version aswell. About a week ago, I saw a > 'Poland' CD in Tower Records, stating Poland, Tangent, Barbakane, and > Horizon as tracks (which is exactly the tracklisting in the TD homepage > discography). It seemed to be only one disc, though. Now, is that the > full version or not? Does anyone have a track listing of the REAL full > version?? > > Dennis Gee, if enough people keep asking about Poland, I keep putting this discography up, eventually all the ?-marks will get squashed. -- Mark The (almost) definative Poland discography POLAND [10 Dec 83] Torwar Ice Rink, Warsaw - EF/CF/JS 1- Poland [22:29] 2- Tangent [15:52] 3- Rarebird [4:01] 4- Barbakane [18:00] 09:18 Warsaw In The Sun, part 1 14:13 Warsaw In The Sun, part 2 5- Horizon [21:07] 14:10 Polish Dance? 2-LP Track layout: 1 - 2.1 - 2.2 - 3 - 4 [1984] Jive-GB- HIP 22 [1984] Rel.-??- ???... [1984] Tonpress-PL- SX-T 64/65 [19??] CNR Records-NL- 573.003/4 (single jacket) [19??] Jive-GB- HIP X 22 (pic-disk: band/scenery) 1-MC Track layout: 1.1 - 1.2 - 1.3 - 2.1 - 2.2 [1984] Jive-??- HIP C 22 [19??] Rel.-US- EMCT 8045 2-CD Track layout: 1.1 - 1.2 - 1.3 - 2.1 - 2.2 [1988] Rel.-US- 88561-8045-2 (track 3 indexed but not labeled) EXTRACTS FROM POLAND -- derived from POLAND 1- Poland [22:21] 2- Barbakane [13:51] 09:18 Warsaw In The Sun, part 1 3- Horizon [20:51] 1-CD [19??] Rel.-DE- 8.26099 ZP [19??] Jive-GB- CHIP 22 [19??] Jive-JP- 32XB-221 POLAND-excerpts -- derived from POLAND 1- Poland [22:00] 2- Tangent [19:52] 15:52 Rarebird 3- Barbakane [15:49] 4- Horizon [20:49] 1-CD [1996] Essential-DE-GB- ESM365 (digital master) [1996] Dureco-NL- ESM365 (digital master?) [1996] Sequel-US- 1044-2 (digital master) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 13, 1997 7:10 am Subject: Re: Sound Forge 4.0 ( No TD content) Really-From: Pixel > And to back someone else up on the list, SoundForge is NOT a destructive > WAVE editor unless you turn that 'feature/bug' on. You can undo ANY > operation except Save (duh!). As I wrote sooner undo levels have nothing to do with the term 'non-destructive'. It describes the way how to perform the tasks. Bye GG From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 10:37 pm Subject: Re: TD does the classics Really-From: Mark Filipak As a 30th aniversary song: 'Tomorrow Never Knows' (Lennon, McCartney) with Edgar doing the 'vocals' on his guitar. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 13, 1997 6:51 am Subject: Re: Sound Forge 4.0 ( No TD content) Really-From: Pixel > > ProTools III is a multitrack non-destructive system but SF is a > > destructive wave editor. They are very different from the application > > side. > > If you mean every time the work is done the editor goes down to 16 bits, > that's rigth. If you mean it doesn't have an undo feature it's wrong. SF > has several levels of 'undo'. No, no. The non-destructive term means that your edits will not perform after you select them. They will work during playtime which means no audio data will be changed on the hard disk - it remains the same as you recorded. When you edit you only build a playback condition list. > > And, if you need real-time wave editor, try Steinberg Wavelab > > from version 1.5. > > I tried it's demo version and I didn't like it. It's very fast but very > sparse, lacking features present on S.Forge plug-ins. I have four different plugins for Wavelab now: denoiser, declicker, maximizer, and Waves Power Pack which consist of L1 maximizer, C1 compressor, Trueverb reverberation, an EQ, and Waveconvert. This quantity is already higher than the plugins you find for SF and there are much more planned. > Besides real time is not necessary. You can make a batch file > with the operations you want done to the wave file and run the editor > during the nigth. In the morning you'll have everythig done. Real-time operation is very good for customizing your edits. It's much more easy to work if you immediately listen to the result. Bye GG From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Mar 12, 1997 10:57 pm Subject: Re: TD Does the Classics Really-From: Robert Grabowsky Grant, You've got to be kidding. The TD remake od Purple Haze is awesome.I think the spinning of Jimi in his grave was caused by the awful music on the 'Stone Free' album released a couple of years ago.It was supposed to be a tribute but I believe it was an ABOMINATION.If Jimi was alive today I believe he would want to congradulate Edgar and kill the people on the tribute album. Robert Grabowsky At 05:31 PM 3/12/97 +0000, you wrote: >Really-From: 'Grant Middleton' > > >Would it be possible for them to hit the 'UNDO' key on 'Purple Haze' ? >Poor Jimi was reported to be spinning in his grave at 2000 RPM. > >While we're on the subject, how about 'Popcorn' by Hot Butter. > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > _.^~~~~~\ > Grunt ! [, @ E-Mail : grantm@d... > \______/ > /\ /\ >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 13, 1997 7:26 am Subject: Err, actually... Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) Hi all, >Really-From: Vic Rek > >I was just thinking of Tranquility Bass today, well actually not until I >threw on a CD compilation called Excursions in Ambience (1) by Caroline rel. >in 1993. I was cooking dinner and I have no clue why I pulled this out and >played it. But the first track sounded great and guess by who? I also >discovered a few other cool musicians on this compilation. 777 (aka System >7 or vice versa) to name one. The group 'Sub Sub' also sounded cool, but >never have seen an album by them. Anybody have any information on them >(David?)? Err, sorry to be a bit of party pooper but...there are actually two bands called 'Tranquility Bass'. What happened was...we released our album back in October 1995. Three months later we were told about another 'Tranquility Bass' formed by a Mr. Mike Kandel who we believe is based in New York. We tried to contact him via his record company to clarify how the name situation could be resolved. We didn't get very far. Very few people knew about them despite the fact that the compilation CD he was on did rather well. After a few months, we received news that the other Tranquility Bass had signed up to the Astral Werks label. So, we mailed them, and the result that came back was extremely non-commital. It told us nothing. Hence, we decided to stick with the name at least until the EMMA festival in May after which, and dependant upon the audiences reaction, we would then decide to change the band's name. Following the enormous support we've received in the last few weeks by people from this digest I'm far more inclined to keep with the name to avoid confusing all you kind folks who have helped us on our way. Now, back to writing tunes... Cheers David email : dhughes@g... web page : http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dhughes/tbass.html Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1797 Re: Err, actually... Sean Montgomery Thu 3/13/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 13, 1997 3:11 am Subject: Poland CD Really-From: Michael Fox I have in my hand the Relativity 2CD release--88561-8045-2. Disc one:Poland/22:29 Tangent/19:59 Disc two:Barbakane/18:00 Horizon/21:07 Cover is weird colorized pic of Frose/Schmoelling/Franke Inner sleeve is same as cover--no band info copyright Zomba Ent---made in USA I also have the 2 disk LP (somewhere in the archives) and I think it deletes Barbakane---which I think is the best cut. More fodder, I guess! Mike Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 1802 Re: Poland CD Mark Filipak Thu 3/13/1997 3 KB 1821 Poland CD Craig Shipley Thu 3/13/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 13, 1997 5:16 am Subject: Re: Err, actually... Really-From: Sean Montgomery > Err, sorry to be a bit of party pooper but...there are actually two bands > called 'Tranquility Bass'. > I'm far more inclined to keep with the name to avoid confusing all you > kind folks who have helped us on our way. I don't know about the rest of you, but *I'm* confused already.... *grin* Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR http://www.topix.com/~sean 'Knowledge is power only if it doesn't make you depressed and cynical' From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 13, 1997 6:11 am Subject: Re: TD Does the Classics Really-From: PNaunton@a... In a message dated 97-03-11 19:17:05 EST, you write: << > >Sean Montgomery wrote: > >> > >> What song would YOU like to hear them do? (points awarded for > >> humour) >> Yes, yes, yes. All very amusing, I'm sure. But what I have really been waiting for Edgar to do solo is Havergal Brian's Symphony #1 'Gothic'. All done in one take on a heavily modified Stylophone, of course. ;-) Goethe from 'Faust' - 'He who ever strives with all his might That man we can redeem.' Phil Naunton From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 13, 1997 6:11 am Subject: Re: TD POCKET DISCOGRAPHY 5.0 Really-From: PNaunton@a... In a message dated 97-03-11 23:03:43 EST, you write: << A 'vanity label' is when there is a specially-designed-for-the specific-record image on the label rather than the label's standard appearance. I mean label literally, not the organization that prints the records. You mean, this CD came out in the USA??? -- Steven Feldman < >> Really? I though a vanity label was a company which took large sums of money from people with 'Rock Star' Dimentia, in order to print quantities of tapes, CDs, LPs, or whatever, and schedule bookings so these same people can feel like stars, even though they don't have the talent to overflow a thimble. I've got a couple of these at my hi-fi shop. It is usually a good idea not to eat for six hours before listening to these. It can be quite a stomach turning experience. I use the CDs as coasters. Phil Naunton From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Mar 13, 1997 6:11 am Subject: Re: Concert Recordings Really-From: PNaunton@a... In a message dated 97-03-11 20:51:54 EST, you write: << It may sound unbelievable but - there are tapes from each single concert they've ever played from 1971 up to now locked safely away at TD lawyer's office in London. Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR >> This _is_ unbelievable. They are also probably irretrievable since audio tapes that are twenty years old are most likely to be unplayable. The chemicals in the tape, the bonding adhesives revert after this period of time, even after controlled environment conditions. I hope to god there is someone out there in charge of this gold mine who knows what they are doing with this priceless treasure trove. I feel a tear running down my face. Phil Naunton